dysan
The pricing of the Hammersmith '75 Deluxe set.
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The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]kevin79 wrote:[/b]
I think that's unfair to Jim Beach. Remember, it was his call that got that lavish Freddie Mercury Solo Set released back around the turn of the century. I'd say the Queen releases that we have and haven't got over the years are more on Brian and Roger than Jim. He's just overseeing what they approve to release.[/QUOTE]
You are far too optimistic. Plenty of people connected to the band would tell you otherwise. And the decision making process goes beyond these three people.
[QUOTE]Paul Prenter was also a bad idea. Not only did he have Freddie's ear with some bad ideas (hello "Hot Space"), but then he went and turned on Freddie for a pay day.[/QUOTE]
That's just the beginning. In 1984 Prenter single-handedly severed all of the major ties Queen had to the US that they had spent a decade building up.
I think that's unfair to Jim Beach. Remember, it was his call that got that lavish Freddie Mercury Solo Set released back around the turn of the century. I'd say the Queen releases that we have and haven't got over the years are more on Brian and Roger than Jim. He's just overseeing what they approve to release.[/QUOTE]
You are far too optimistic. Plenty of people connected to the band would tell you otherwise. And the decision making process goes beyond these three people.
[QUOTE]Paul Prenter was also a bad idea. Not only did he have Freddie's ear with some bad ideas (hello "Hot Space"), but then he went and turned on Freddie for a pay day.[/QUOTE]
That's just the beginning. In 1984 Prenter single-handedly severed all of the major ties Queen had to the US that they had spent a decade building up.
YourValentine
I think the role of Paul Prenter has been blown out of proportion in the DOOL documentary. After all, he was just a minor figure and now he serves as a projection wall for every problem the band ever had in the 80s. In fact they had a problem with Freddie who was drugging too much and writing too little, they had artistic conflicts about their music and major image problems, For example Freddie's open gayness caused problems in the USA and the Sun City concerts caused a major loss of good image. In the mid 80s Queen was regarded as a band whose creativity had all but vanished, a band who had betrayed their artistic roots and sold out to pop music, and who compromised everything for a quick Brirish pound. To blame all this on Prenter is rewriting history.
Vocal harmony
Paul Prenter was in a position where he could influence Freddie directly and was also the first point of contact for many people when Queen were touring.
I'd say that the bands biggest mistake was trusting him in the position he had, both as a band and Freddie as an individual.
Most of the other mistakes made by the band or management were overcome. Yes Hot Space was not a great seller, and they got hammered for Suncity, but the albums and tours that followed both of these "mistakes" were huge
But by then they had lost the US market and that ultimately was down to Prenter saying the band wasn't available for comment or interview to countless people and his influence on Freddie, making him believe that The States were a lost cause. In reality their image as a band suffered in the mid west, they could have still played key cities on the west and eastern sea bored and rebuilt their live reputation.
So I think their biggest mistake was not having enough self belief from 82 to 84
I'd say that the bands biggest mistake was trusting him in the position he had, both as a band and Freddie as an individual.
Most of the other mistakes made by the band or management were overcome. Yes Hot Space was not a great seller, and they got hammered for Suncity, but the albums and tours that followed both of these "mistakes" were huge
But by then they had lost the US market and that ultimately was down to Prenter saying the band wasn't available for comment or interview to countless people and his influence on Freddie, making him believe that The States were a lost cause. In reality their image as a band suffered in the mid west, they could have still played key cities on the west and eastern sea bored and rebuilt their live reputation.
So I think their biggest mistake was not having enough self belief from 82 to 84
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
I think the role of Paul Prenter has been blown out of proportion in the DOOL documentary. After all, he was just a minor figure and now he serves as a projection wall for every problem the band ever had in the 80s.[/QUOTE]
Of course, not every problem. But certainly more than most of us may realize. I know enough people who were connected to the band in one way or another in the 80s who can give first hand evidence.
I think the role of Paul Prenter has been blown out of proportion in the DOOL documentary. After all, he was just a minor figure and now he serves as a projection wall for every problem the band ever had in the 80s.[/QUOTE]
Of course, not every problem. But certainly more than most of us may realize. I know enough people who were connected to the band in one way or another in the 80s who can give first hand evidence.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]
Paul Prenter was in a position where he could influence Freddie directly and was also the first point of contact for many people when Queen were touring.
I'd say that the bands biggest mistake was trusting him in the position he had, both as a band and Freddie as an individual.
Most of the other mistakes made by the band or management were overcome. Yes Hot Space was not a great seller, and they got hammered for Suncity, but the albums and tours that followed both of these "mistakes" were huge
But by then they had lost the US market and that ultimately was down to Prenter saying the band wasn't available for comment or interview to countless people and his influence on Freddie, making him believe that The States were a lost cause. In reality their image as a band suffered in the mid west, they could have still played key cities on the west and eastern sea bored and rebuilt their live reputation.
So I think their biggest mistake was not having enough self belief from 82 to 84[/QUOTE]
^ this.
Paul Prenter was in a position where he could influence Freddie directly and was also the first point of contact for many people when Queen were touring.
I'd say that the bands biggest mistake was trusting him in the position he had, both as a band and Freddie as an individual.
Most of the other mistakes made by the band or management were overcome. Yes Hot Space was not a great seller, and they got hammered for Suncity, but the albums and tours that followed both of these "mistakes" were huge
But by then they had lost the US market and that ultimately was down to Prenter saying the band wasn't available for comment or interview to countless people and his influence on Freddie, making him believe that The States were a lost cause. In reality their image as a band suffered in the mid west, they could have still played key cities on the west and eastern sea bored and rebuilt their live reputation.
So I think their biggest mistake was not having enough self belief from 82 to 84[/QUOTE]
^ this.
thomasquinn 32989
Not having faith in themselves, yes. Being completely lacking in moral fiber also. Just look at the disgusting way Brian tried to weasel out of Sun City. Reading those remarks by him are one of the very few times when I felt like punching him in the face. They were completely devoid of ethics back then. And although Brian tries to moralize with alarming frequency nowadays, he still isn't a big enough man to admit they were wrong with Sun City and to apologize for it.
YourValentine
@ Vocal Harmony - you just repeat what Brian and Roger told in the DOOL documentary. However, there were always local promoters who were responsible for the PR of a tour, Prenter did not have this power and for all we know about Freddie, he was a very determined and intelligent person, It is very hard to believe that a guy like Prenter could manipulate Freddie in the way you are suggesting. I have heard the stories about Prenter in Rio and how Freddie was alienated from the band in this period, too but it is such a simplification to blame it all on the assistent. Typical rewriting history like in many other cases concerning Queen.
Thre band was not falling apart because of the influence of Prenter, they were falling apart because they did not agree about the kind of music they wanted to play, they did not focus on their work but were all gone to some other places. In more honest moments Brian has detailed the problems they had in Munich with clubbing and drugging, the problems with the studio and with Mack siding with the Freddie/John Deacon camp etc. We have heard about the problem with the "Works" album, how John Deacon bullied Brian out of his role in the band and how difficult it was to agree on anything, at all. Everything was difficult and hard to achieve and the band was tired of it. Surely, Prenter was a bad influence but he was not the main problem, .
Thre band was not falling apart because of the influence of Prenter, they were falling apart because they did not agree about the kind of music they wanted to play, they did not focus on their work but were all gone to some other places. In more honest moments Brian has detailed the problems they had in Munich with clubbing and drugging, the problems with the studio and with Mack siding with the Freddie/John Deacon camp etc. We have heard about the problem with the "Works" album, how John Deacon bullied Brian out of his role in the band and how difficult it was to agree on anything, at all. Everything was difficult and hard to achieve and the band was tired of it. Surely, Prenter was a bad influence but he was not the main problem, .
Costa86
Prenter wasn't the root of the problem. He was just one of a number of problems. His role in leading Freddie astray was certainly major. But Freddie was a grown man. I find it hard to imagine him as a sort of king being led by a deviant manipulative assistant.
Freddie went full blown (perhaps not the best choice of words) party-mode at the time - true - but, even if Prenter did influence him to make certain choices, surely Freddie himself agreed with the choices he was making.
I think the greatest negative effect Prenter had was that he made Freddie think he didn't need Queen. In this respect, I do agree that this exasperated the various pressures and issues within the band.
Freddie went full blown (perhaps not the best choice of words) party-mode at the time - true - but, even if Prenter did influence him to make certain choices, surely Freddie himself agreed with the choices he was making.
I think the greatest negative effect Prenter had was that he made Freddie think he didn't need Queen. In this respect, I do agree that this exasperated the various pressures and issues within the band.
Vocal harmony
[QUOTE] [b]Costa86 wrote:[/b]
Prenter wasn't the root of the problem. He was just one of a number of problems. His role in leading Freddie astray was certainly major. But Freddie was a grown man........
I think the greatest negative effect Prenter had was that he made Freddie think he didn't need Queen. In this respect, I do agree that this exasperated the various pressures and issues within the band.[/QUOTE]
Well if he had influence on the last of your points, he certainly must have had that influence on many other things and probably could be considered as the root of many problems. The rift between Freddie and BM and RT started somewhere. JD sided with Freddie because he was, by then, less into the hard rock side of things.
Prenter, remember fell out of favour with BM and RT and continued as a member of Freddie's paid staff.
I believe he was very much the root of much of the problems within the band.
Prenter wasn't the root of the problem. He was just one of a number of problems. His role in leading Freddie astray was certainly major. But Freddie was a grown man........
I think the greatest negative effect Prenter had was that he made Freddie think he didn't need Queen. In this respect, I do agree that this exasperated the various pressures and issues within the band.[/QUOTE]
Well if he had influence on the last of your points, he certainly must have had that influence on many other things and probably could be considered as the root of many problems. The rift between Freddie and BM and RT started somewhere. JD sided with Freddie because he was, by then, less into the hard rock side of things.
Prenter, remember fell out of favour with BM and RT and continued as a member of Freddie's paid staff.
I believe he was very much the root of much of the problems within the band.
*goodco*
Not releasing IWTBF with the alternate solo that was just leaked......
YourValentine
@ Costa86, I agree with most of what you say but I do not believe that Freddie ever thought he did not need Queen. He gave the famous big interviews about "Bad Guy" and it was more than obvious that he thought he had to do the solo album because Roger and Brian already had done solo work and not because he had many ideas he could not realise within Queen.There was no enthusiasm about the album, only a lot of witty jokes. The big artistic impulse came only when he had the chance to record with Montserrat Caballe and only then did he return to his breath taking songwriting skills that had not been very visible throughout the 80s.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
I do not believe that Freddie ever thought he did not need Queen.[/QUOTE]
Well, he did.
He got a far bigger advance for Mr Bad Guy than Queen got for The Works, which caused an even bigger rift in the band.
Had his album not flopped and had Live Aid not happened, you can bet your life that Mercury would have left the band.
Brian and Roger have never been forthcoming in talking about this period, but it was an extremely dark one. They've done very well in keeping under wraps how bad things really were.
I do not believe that Freddie ever thought he did not need Queen.[/QUOTE]
Well, he did.
He got a far bigger advance for Mr Bad Guy than Queen got for The Works, which caused an even bigger rift in the band.
Had his album not flopped and had Live Aid not happened, you can bet your life that Mercury would have left the band.
Brian and Roger have never been forthcoming in talking about this period, but it was an extremely dark one. They've done very well in keeping under wraps how bad things really were.
musicland munich
Prenter`s influence on the band maybe is for debate. But I can vouch for one thing. As soon he had the information that Freddie has developed AIDS, he walks straight to the press. Not much of a thinking process before he betrayed him. Pure criminal instict !
The Press comes up with it in early / mid May 87`. Knowing that Freddie had his result short before, clearly shows that attitude.
People who may have read the Jim Hutton Book, may think it was a single Article in one of those gutter papers, no, they filled PAGES with these storys. for several days if not weeks.
Such as "Phone Call of Terror" and "He liked his men hunky" and many more.
So individually, Prenter was Freddie`s biggest mistake for sure.
The Press comes up with it in early / mid May 87`. Knowing that Freddie had his result short before, clearly shows that attitude.
People who may have read the Jim Hutton Book, may think it was a single Article in one of those gutter papers, no, they filled PAGES with these storys. for several days if not weeks.
Such as "Phone Call of Terror" and "He liked his men hunky" and many more.
So individually, Prenter was Freddie`s biggest mistake for sure.
Saint Jiub
[QUOTE]
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b] We have heard about the problem with the "Works" album, how John Deacon bullied Brian out of his role in the band [/QUOTE]
...
Interesting.
Source Please?
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b] We have heard about the problem with the "Works" album, how John Deacon bullied Brian out of his role in the band [/QUOTE]
...
Interesting.
Source Please?