Hot Space - a little gem

I'm not sure if it was his worst, but it's definitely up there.

But good old Fred did come up with some stinkers from time to time: 'Get Down, Make Love', 'Don't Try Suicide', half of 'Mr Bad Guy'... of course, he also wrote some masterpieces and perhaps that's what drove the others to greenlight his ideas.

'Delilah' is one that could've been kept in because of his declining health, but there's no excuse for the others, really.

"'Get Down, Make Love'"

Which was on an album that you could say was a precursor to Hot Space in that they made a conscious effort to move away from what they were doing and create new sounds, News of the World was a terrific example of how to do it because it still contained trademark Queen and an 'essence' of what they were. It is a strange paradox that the massive world wide success of Another One Bites the Dust ultimately led to a creative low.

Actually I don't rate NOTW that highly, either.

I think NOTW is a great record. Don't fancy Sheer Heart Attack and Get Down Make Love though.

"Actually I don't rate NOTW that highly, either."

I don't either for what it's worth. I understand it, but I don't actually like it that much.

'News of the World' is not too great compared to the previous four or five albums, but it's a masterpiece compared to 'Hot Space'.

It's all down to personal opinion isn't it. I think it's their weakest or one of their weakest albums...and maybe that was Freddie's fault...but i think he probably pulled the band up to the level of success they achieved - so he's allowed to make mistakes. And it's not like people lied to them and told it was great. Sales, fan reactions, reviews - all said it was crap. So that's it, really.

I still very much like Dancer, Life is Real and Under Pressure. And i think Staying Power and Action This Day work well live.

But then it's all opinion.

I like Life Is Real a lot. Las Palabras De Amor has inklings of Brian's great songwriting from the previous album, but it's ultimately let down by (what I believe is) a pretty weak chorus melody, as well as underwhelming arrangement & production.

I find stuff like Staying Power, Back Chat, Body Language, and Action This Day enjoyable enough in their live iterations - energetic and fun, but shithouse when compared with the kind of masterpieces we know Queen were capable of.

[QUOTE] [b]Martin Packer wrote:[/b]

Actually I don't rate NOTW that highly, either.[/QUOTE]

Roger's contributions are the least interesting, for me. Get Down Make Love is lyrically a bit cringeworthy, but musically I think it's pretty solid. The rest is ace, and I think All Dead, All Dead is one of the best songs they ever put out.

I don't know why people don't like Calling All Girls. Maybe people think the video was cringeworthy.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

secondly, let's look at some of the biggest albums from '82...[/QUOTE]

The biggest album of all-time was also released in 1982. Its title starts with 'T' and ends with 'hriller'. Wonder which one it is... And, again, as you say, no lazy writing there at all.

Considering a large part of HS was recorded in 1981, it's worth looking at some of the top-selling albums from that year as well:

- ABBA: The Visitors
- ELO: Time (engineered by Mack)
- Foreigner: 4
- Journey: Escape (partly produced by Mike Stone)
- Meat Loaf: Dead Ringer
- Phil Collins: Face Value
- Styx: Paradise Theater
- The Moody Blues: Long Distance Voyager
- The Rolling Stones: Tattoo You

None of them lazy, none of them mediocre, all of them far better sellers than HS, and with good reason.[/QUOTE]

I know you like ABBA, and while both I and Anthony Bourdain feel that you should be brought up on charges of promoting crimes against humanity for that, I'll ignore them simply to avoid a tedious argument.

However, putting Meat Loaf's "Dead Ringer" on your list and saying there's nothing "mediocre" on said list is either very subtle comedy or a result of very serious brain damage. Not only does it fail to even come close to the quality of Bat Out Of Hell, it fails to be anything more than forgettable. There is NOTHING on that album worth remembering. Even Hot Space has Under Pressure!

I like 'More Than You Deserve'. Not so much for his voice (it's way too hammy, even for a track like that), but I do love the arrangement and the instrumentation (I mean, it's got Nicky Hopkins and Mick Ronson). Now, the video's really awful, yes, there's no way to defend it. But, back to the music, even Mick's guitar solo by itself is already way better than all the first side of HS, and Max Weinberg's drumming is a billion times more listeneable than those awful HS machines.

And the title track, well... if you compare it with 'Staying Power' (which also has horns), it still wins by far. The guitar work is quite good, the bass is really good (it's real, not a synth), same for the drumming (real, not machines) and the horns really add to it without getting in the way (unlike 'Staying Power'). Plus, I'm not a fan of Cher, but she was tolerable in her pre-Believe days. The song is cheesy as hell and, again, the Loaf's performance is way too hammy almost to the point of self-parody. But it's not mediocre at all IMO ... the guitar on that particular track (and most of the album) is not by Mick but by Elton John's Davey Johnstone.

Compare the way both songs end. One did blend rock and disco/R&B/whatever-you-call-it quite well (even if the result isn't to everyone's tastes), the other one sounds ridiculously amateurish despite having big names associated with it (Freddie and Arif).

Plus, everything HS apologists (including Dr Wig) claim was new and groundbreaking about HS had already been done by the Loaf, only better.

[QUOTE] [b]master marathon runner wrote:[/b]
............you don't like HS do you Brenski?[/QUOTE]
or The Works or AKOM.

i'm not getting whatever point you're trying to make?
why is my "not liking" HS anymore noteworthy than the comments liking it?

perhaps you have a love for HS that is slanted toward your own visit to Milton Keynes?
if that's the case then i suggest that your memory of HS live is as faulty as your recall of the support bands that day, remember?

[QUOTE] [b]master marathon runner wrote:[/b]
Bow wow wow were definitely support that day.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

I like 'More Than You Deserve'. Not so much for his voice (it's way too hammy, even for a track like that), but I do love the arrangement and the instrumentation (I mean, it's got Nicky Hopkins and Mick Ronson). Now, the video's really awful, yes, there's no way to defend it. But, back to the music, even Mick's guitar solo by itself is already way better than all the first side of HS, and Max Weinberg's drumming is a billion times more listeneable than those awful HS machines.

And the title track, well... if you compare it with 'Staying Power' (which also has horns), it still wins by far. The guitar work is quite good, the bass is really good (it's real, not a synth), same for the drumming (real, not machines) and the horns really add to it without getting in the way (unlike 'Staying Power'). Plus, I'm not a fan of Cher, but she was tolerable in her pre-Believe days. The song is cheesy as hell and, again, the Loaf's performance is way too hammy almost to the point of self-parody. But it's not mediocre at all IMO ... the guitar on that particular track (and most of the album) is not by Mick but by Elton John's Davey Johnstone.

Compare the way both songs end. One did blend rock and disco/R&B/whatever-you-call-it quite well (even if the result isn't to everyone's tastes), the other one sounds ridiculously amateurish despite having big names associated with it (Freddie and Arif).

Plus, everything HS apologists (including Dr Wig) claim was new and groundbreaking about HS had already been done by the Loaf, only better.[/QUOTE]

Your arguments are all sound...within the confines of a comparison between Dead Ringer and Hot Space. But we've already agreed that Hot Space is pretty terrible. My point is that "mediocre" is a good description for Dead Ringer, an album that just doesn't hold up to Meat Loaf at his finest.

If we would compare Hot Space to, say, William Shatner's "The Transformed Man", Hot Space would come off looking pretty good, because the singer is actually competent and all the featured musicians know how to play their instruments well. But that would be an unfair comparison. We consider Hot Space utter shit because we know the same band was also capable of producing Queen II, SHA, ANATO, ADATR and Innuendo. Conversely, if the teenagers jamming in the garage down the street from where you live would have come up with Staying Power or Back Chat, most people would have considered that a fairly good effort. It all becomes a matter of context that way.

Dead Ringer simply can't hold a candle to what Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman did only a few years before with Bat Out Of Hell, so I consider it an intensely disappointing and thoroughly mediocre album, despite having some moments of quality - which Hot Space has, too.

Fair enough.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]master marathon runner wrote:[/b]
............you don't like HS do you Brenski?[/QUOTE]
or The Works or AKOM.

i'm not getting whatever point you're trying to make?
why is my "not liking" HS anymore noteworthy than the comments liking it?

perhaps you have a love for HS that is slanted toward your own visit to Milton Keynes?
if that's the case then i suggest that your memory of HS live is as faulty as your recall of the support bands that day, remember?

[QUOTE] [b]master marathon runner wrote:[/b]
Bow wow wow were definitely support that day.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]



I didn't "visit Milton Keynes that day" - my claim was based on the Roger interview backstage (from the original tube broadcast) where 'I want candy' can be clearly heard, in the background and of course it was reported at the time!
Calm down and be nice man! - life's too short!