clarification of Thor Arnold's role in Freddie's life

When Thor said Freddie's whole demeanor changed when Mary was within earshot I took it to mean Freddie went quieter as if he didn't want her to see a certain side of him or that he kind of filtered himself when she was around. (though Thor's welcome to correct me obvs) I assumed this because I believed it to support something Phoebe said: RE: visiting Elton's for Christmas 1991:

"There, we could be more relaxed. We could be ourselves in the company of our friends and peers, people who understood our situation and who knew Freddie as he REALLY had been. It was good to be able to talk about him without having to be politely oblique about his behaviour – about him - which I always felt I should be in Mary’s company. To her, Freddie would always be her lover, her untouchable, uncriticisable rock god."

Also to your question about the bisexuality debate and homophobia among the Queen community: YES! Not on Queenzone but there are many corners of the fandom where people do DESPERATELY want him to be bisexual, and they really do get quite vicious and verbally abusive over the matter. Rows rage on for days, with talk of him 'faking a gay persona to impress gay friends'. You might have been jesting about the 'wanting him to be heterosexual' thing, but yes, there are some fans who act like they wish he was.

For example in Queen Facebook groups, every time a photo of Freddie and a random woman pops up, everyone is desperate to find out if she was a lover of his, with many people insisting they can read lust in his eyes. When the answer is inevitably no, they display disappointment, followed by spite when people say he was gay. The admin then has to shut the thread because it gets so heated. Photos of him with boyfriends are either completely ignored, or are targeted with screams of 'gold digger', particularly if it's photos with Jim Hutton.
There is also a whole movement on Tumblr and many other sites that aggressively try to force the "Freddie Was Bisexual and anyone who disagrees deserves [insert punishment]" I'm not joking. It's vicious to the point people are afraid to call Freddie gay on there.

Finally, I do think Freddie could be a bad judge of character. He thought Barbara was great until she realised she was going to the press about him and most of the Queen camp would agree Paul Prenter was a 'subversive' influence. Everyone's capable of letting shitty people into their lives I guess. Even Freddie.

@ Villiers

Thank you for your great response. I certainly realize homophobia exists, but I didn't realize the extent to which the situations you described have happened. But then I don't have a Facebook page (although I can access my husband's) and am not on Instagram. Yes, I would imagine that gay erasing would mostly be done by women. The trash-talking women you describe, who think that Freddie might have been attracted to them, are the fans that I put in the category of "bat-shit crazy". Seems so bizarre!

Freddie is no less attractive because he was gay. Still think he was gorgeous! Wouldn't have wanted to date him.

@ captainjory

Well, I am certainly learning a lot today. All I can say is wow. Stunned that people actually get into vicious and heated arguments over Freddie's sexuality and that there are sites where this topic is specifically debated. People are nuts! But I thank you and Villiers for taking the time to elaborate. You both have the same point of view and it was fascinating to read.

Yes, I would think that Freddie would be different around Mary as his relationship with her probably satisfied an emotional need that might not have been satisfied with others. Completely agree about the Paul Prenter thing.

I always looked at Barbara as more of a fun and outrageous liaison into the Munich club scene. Seems like Freddie enjoyed her company; never had the impression she was more than a pal.

OK,
I worked in a gay bar from 1974 until 1983. I have met hundreds of thousands
of gay people and I have observed how most of us have some similar behaviors.
From 1981 until 1983 Freddie and my group of friends acted like typical gay
men when we went out...Scoping out attractive men and commenting on them.
The same way that unmarried men and women react in this type of atmosphere
(well, perhaps some married ones as well). Freddie NEVER tried to hide to his
friends that he was TOTALLY gay. In his industry, he had to hide it to some extent
although as I have said before, he certainly gave clues. This is the same man
who came up with the name QUEEN for his band. This is the man who dressed
very sexually, ambiguously "glam" up until 1980. This is the man who threw an
Easter bonnet party and had us all create Easter hats. This is the man who used
the term darling (or Dahling) more than he used proper names, and renamed his
friends with old actresses names. These things are doubtful for a straight or bi man.
Many gays don't even act like this. Of course it was all done in fun but these
things were not, to my knowledge, done by bisexuals. I've never seen Freddie look
twice at a woman but I have seen him look 3 or 4 times at an attractive man and say,
"Thor, Thor...Oh just look at him...just Gorgeous. I'd love some of THAT" We were
genuine friends of Freddie and he would never hide that he was really bi.
FREDDIE WAS A GAY MAN through and through...everyone...please get used to
it.

Rainbow61
I think I was more polite and politically correct about my ORIGINAL thoughts about
Mary. I was new here and I was not interested in making enemies. Because of many
of you informing me just recently about Mary, I did, at this point feel comfortable about
sharing my suspicions. BUT Freddie was observed over and over showing non-sexual
affection for her. I never heard one remark against Mary She was like a lifelong friend
he could always count on. What she did to Peter Freestone was ice cold in my opinion.
He did not deserve that.

Thor your last post was great ^
I'm not a gay man myself, but because I'm writing something about a gay man in the 70s, I've done a lot of research and I have been trying to explain to people about Freddie's behaviour patterns being the same as many contemporaneous gay males for AGES. I've talked to them about the whole glam rock era, I've discussed all the stereotypically gay things Freddie enjoyed, listing all the things you mention. Only to be shot down and told stereotypes are dangerous and that he wasn't even camp. I've been blocked on social media for calling him camp, even though there were times, particularly in the 70s when he was pretty effeminate.

So it's really important to hear your point of view on this, as a gay contemporary who ACTUALLY KNEW FREDDIE. Certain fans need to see this!

PS ONLY A GAY MAN WOULD MAKE THIS RECORD. "see you later sailor boy!" "you naughty thing you - ooh!" I couldn't stop laughing when I first heard this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDVWHfMTHp4

Thank you captainjory,
You are writing something about gay men in the 70's? GREAT,
let me know when it is available to read. Thank you in advance.

I don't know, the devil's advocate is in me the whole time on the Mary issue. Freddie didn't love her for nothing. While I've appreciated Villiers' posts, I'm not in agreement that being a quiet person equals being boring. It just means that only a few people are privy to the depth of a quiet person's personality. Didn't Freddie say 'she has the depth and quality to talk to me about very serious things,' and also to 'put up with me.'

I was terribly sorry to hear about what happened with Peter but he has since visited her, he saw a very old Delilah at the time. He talks about it peacefully saying that she did want to keep him on as an employee but then there was some last minute reason why she couldn't and perhaps it was the thing about probate, not sure on that.

I'll leave my thoughts on a number of points for another day but one thing is standing out in my mind here. She was both grieving and pregnant. I'm not saying that's an excuse for bad behaviour, but a lot of what's been said is from books (though Thor I respect your opinions as you were there and knew her). It would be interesting to know if she had given birth before those decisions that were upsetting to Jim, Phoebe and Joe. Hormones go crazy just after birth and mixed with grief, it might explain her backing off. She'd just lost Freddie. Her whole life. When she met him as a young woman she'd just lost her mother. I sometimes wonder if they both provided each other with stability, she lost her mother, his was absent for most of his childhood and adolescence. Also hormones just before birth tend to make people want to organise and sort everything out, ready for the birth. It might have influenced her decisions. She was handed a huge responsibility and on the subject of the house being left unalarmed, not good practice. No offence meant towards Joe, I wasn't there, and he was ill, but if I was responsible for the house of someone I loved, grief would make me fiercely protective over it. Mary's thoroughness and practicality might have been seen by Freddie as an asset behind the scenes.

Anyway, i'll come back to it another day. I have an open mind for all opinions, but keep coming back to the fact that Freddie loved her. He loved something about her. The fact that she doesn't talk to fans, etc, might be making things look worse than they were intended.

Lastly, although I'm a woman, I've no interest in whether Freddie was gay, bi, or straight. I believe from what people say that he was gay. I'm fine with that. As Rainbow61 says, those women who need him to be straight, or at least bisexual, are bat shit crazy, lol. So my thoughts about Mary are not to do with that, rather it's trying to understand WHY she did the things she's reported to have done. Is there another explanation and we're just getting one side.

Thor MF'in Arnold! LOL you have no idea how much your last reply means. Thank you so much. Its been an ongoing battle online for years and as someone who is also always mislabeled and shunned, I hate to see another member of the LGBT community erased. The gay community is SO proud of him. Freddie was a gay icon. Everyone tries to give me a hard time when I point it out, and I've even been told that he wasnt gay and that I dont know what bisexuality is! (Me! A bisexual person!) Lol. Ive been telling people he wasnt our tribe for years! Lol He was a wonderfully talented man who happened to be GAY. That should not ever be erased or brushed under the rug. It should be celebrated and acknowledged! It should be accurately represented in all documentaries and biographies that focus on his life outside of his work.

You've settled a major argument just now. I can't thank you enough. Please, please, please do drop me a line if you're ever in Houston TX. That drink in Montrose just got bumped up to unlimited rounds! Lol!

Hi again Thor, I sent you a personal message to your inbox with an image you'd may like to check out :) Also I am enjoying your replies really much, I like it better when you are just yourself without trying to be so careful and just express your feelings and thoughts, thank you.

Hey SmokyQuartz,
I appreciate your thoughts. Keep in mind that I am giving my thoughts as well.
On many subjects about Freddie and Queen I have admitted that I do not know
for sure about many topics but if someone's behavior gives me an impression,
right or wrong, this is the place to talk about it. What you said does give me another
way to think about things. One theory I think I can probably discount is pregnancy
being the problem. I was there one or two times during her first pregnancy. BUT,
if you tell me that every pregnancy is different and every moment is different,
I will reconsider this thought.

SmokyQuartz, well, thats not exactly what I meant. I dont know that Mary was boring because she was quiet. I meant that seeing as so many people have painted her a reserved person who did not join in on the fun with his friends very often, that she came off as boring. She certainly seemed that way to that way to me (granted, I'm going off books and Ive never met her). Does it mean its true and a fact? Nah. Just a theory of mine. As for her treatment of Jim, Peter, Joe, the band and Freddie's family after his passing... Still just an opinion of mine, but I've known many pregnant women over the years (some who were carrying while their loved ones have died) and they never acted coldly to those around them. They usually reached out to those around them for emotional support. I kind of doubt her hormones can be credited for that behavior. And for her staying out of contact with everyone for years AFTER she had the kids. I'm sure they didnt help, but Ehh...

Grief manifests in different ways for different people, but thats a bit of a stretch IMO. Oh, and yes peter and jim both visited mary after freddie died. Once. They also both tried very hard to look after her and keep in contact with her after he died (as did Freddies mom and sister) but she did not seem interested. Peter mentioned during that last visit he made to her that she refused to let him have a briefcase that belonged to him as well. He didnt seem too thrilled about their last exchange as he explained in his second book. When he talks about it now at conventions and gatherings, I believe he has let the years bring the frustration and disappointment to a cool temp. He doesn't seem the type to hold a grudge.

RBoulain,
First reply was blank, check again please

My thoughts also,but better stated Villiers, thank you man.

Got you, Thor :)

Just how rich IS Mary in 2017?

When I google her net worth it comes up $1 million dollars. I would have thought it would be more as Garden Lodge alone is worth 7-8 million, and doesn't she receive Freddie's royalties in perpetuity?

Anyone?