[QUOTE] [b]doughnut wrote:[/b]
NeverTooLate...not sure if you saw my comments yesterday but I was quite cross that Jim got chucked out.
And, What do you think of 'is this the real life'? [QUOTE]
I missed it and had to go back to read your earlier post. We share the same opinion about Jim and getting kicked out of Garden Lodge on a whim.
As for the Evans book, I like it so far, but I've been getting a lot of distractions today so my progress has been slow.
Maybe it won´t be a popular opinion here, but I´m not so radical in saying "poor Jim kicked out of the house, how could he deal with this heartache."
I have two points on this:
First - we only know the story from Jim´s POV. I´m not saing he didn´t tell the whole truth. But maybe when Freddie would tell us the story, we would say - "oh you are completely right to kick him out".
Most probably we wouldn´t say that, but ... we don´t know what really happened. What went through Freddie´s head. So yes, it definitely wasn´t nice but there are always two in a relationship and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Which leads me to the second point.
Maybe I´m biased with my personal experience, but sometimes things look completely different as they really are. I´m in a marriage which is far from ideal. I´m really temperamental a I have said and written things to my husband - when somebody from outside would read it, he would say - oh, she completely hates him, why does she stay with him (which isn´t true for most of the time, but what would you think if you would just read this one letter which I wrote in anger)? The relationship is such a complex thing, that you really can´t pick up one or two situations and make a conclusion. Because there are so many things hidden, not spoken, just felt and only these two persons in this relationship can understand how things really are. And even within a relationship one can completely misunderstand the other. In such a relationship things can change in a minute, it´s like a roller coaster ride and you simply go from one extreme to another. Is it healthy? Definitely not but it is all we have and we have to live it. In my case, after 11 years together, we didn´t kill each other which is quite a surprise :)
And I feel that Jim simply understood this temperamental part of Freddie´s character and he knew, he doesn´t have to take everything too seriously. That´s how he got through this situation and was able to stay and trust Freddie again because at the end, Freddie wanted him to stay. He got through his phase "I don´t need you anymore" and moved to phase "Please stay". I kind of understand it and maybe Jim understood it too. Sometimes you musn´t listen to the words but to the heart.
And that´s why I have so many problems to say after reading all the books written by anybody - "They definitely loved each other" or "They definitely didn´t love each other". I can believe one or another, but I can´t know for sure. Because all the situations written in a book are just snippets, tiny, miniature pieces of an everyday life and we are far from knowing the truth. I have big respect for Jim, because Freddie was definitely a very complicated partner. But as far as I don´t know the story from Freddie´s POV, I don´t make any judgements.
Here are my 2 psychological pennies I hope I didn´t upset you too much :)
Good discussion and points, MIKA251,
I recognized as I was reading Jim's book that any feelings I had did not represent how Jim felt and maybe my feelings and reactions were opposite of his. Relationships can be challenging and difficult, and there can be cycles where a couple is in sync and getting along all the way to don't want to be in the same town as each other. I have no insight nor claim to when it comes to FM and his various relationships.
I'm taking Jim H's story at face value, meaning I'm choosing to believe what he wrote since I have no reason or evidence that conflicts with what he wrote.
The trigger for me (and I admit this is *my* trigger) is the notion of being told to leave/get out/move somewhere else. Jim had no rights since he was living as FM's boyfriend and then his gardener. He was living in Freddie's house because of his romantic relationship with Freddie. And he could be kicked out since it wasn't his home, despite Freddie telling him multiple times, "this is your home too." Has nothing to do with love or who's a great guy or anything else. It was the simple truth of the matter and it was an area of vulnerability for Jim.
For me it was "Woah, just a minute now! Everyone needs a place to call home where they can control their space and count on that consistently being there and not subject to a partner's whim." It represented something important, something I thought important, even if Jim didn't think it was a big deal. So that stood out to me because it was something that happened more than once and it brought up a reaction within myself. Hope that makes sense.
You made a good point.
But I think the issue with the house isn´t that uncommon. It happens in many relationships when you don´t buy your living place together, but one simply moves in to the another´s flat or house - and there come all the problems with "where can I give my stuff? - Ehm, there is not enough place for it, put it in the cellar" and "I really hate this style but it was there before I came so I cannot change it" etc. It takes quite a lot of time until you feel at home there and once the relationship is over, the owner will stay and the other one has to move out.
I happens all the time.
Ehm... weren´t we supposed to talk about books? :D
Mika and Nevertolate - Please continue your discussion - I find it very interesting. And it does relate to the Mercury and Me book.
All my books are on a Kindle and although I have read most of them I am trying to read them - unfortunately all at the same time.
No one will ever know the true feelings of Freddie and his relationships, that is true, but I view it as a giant puzzle, trying to put all the pieces together. Unfortunately, this puzzle has some missing pieces.
Invisible woman - thanks for the link.
To open another can of worms - was it Jim's book that hinted Mary might have had something to do with one of Jim's exits?
emdee0809
Oh, this is a really big can of worms :)
But yes you are right.
I think even Phoebe in his blog mentioned something? I'm not completely sure.
I think (again this is what I believe) Mary had her own HUGE bag of feelings and issues which influenced her behaviour. I won't judge her and I understand it at some point. I don't say it was right and I'm not trying to detent her. I just understand.
[QUOTE] [b]emdee0809 wrote:[/b]
To open another can of worms - was it Jim's book that hinted Mary might have had something to do with one of Jim's exits?[/QUOTE]
He hinted that *someone* or maybe more than 1 person was influencing Freddie on the Jim matter, and he even came out and point blank asked Freddie the second time he was ousted out of the house, "so whose advice did you follow," and Freddie claims he followed his own advice. Freddie wasn't going to throw Mary or anyone else who was pushing the matter, under the bus.
No doubt there was some competition for Freddie's attention and general pecking order/standing, and as Freddie's live-in lover, Jim would have been perceived as having power even if he didn't and never tried to push an agenda. We know now that Mary had a set of feelings about the various guys in the house that weren't clearly known until after Freddie died. I'm not saying *she's* the one who tried to encourage FM to push Jim out, but it would make sense that she could have been.
One thing Mary did have an issue with was when Freddie decided he was going to give Jim a raise.
Jim writes: "Freddie told me he was going to increase my wages from £600 to £1000 per month. Sadly, my wage rise was the reason for an argument between Freddie and Mary. The accountants were on holiday, so Freddie had to sign the monthly pay cheques. I had never questioned how much I was paid. I knew that Joe and Phoebe were paid more, but they were on duty twenty-four hours a day. I never wanted to know exactly what they were paid; it was none of my business.”
Excerpt From: Jim Hutton. “Mercury and Me.”
NeverTooLate,
I understand your reluctance to include fan fiction in books about Freddie, but I feel the Virtuoso in The Closet is an exception. The books are very well researched and based on facts and people that we know about Freddie's life. Of course the dialogue is fictionalized, but I think it is a worthy read that allows you to empathize through the character George what Freddie was going through while simultaneously trying to come to terms with his sexuality and break into the music business.
NeverTooLate, thanks for starting the book club! I've read the following:
Peter Freestone's 1st book
Jim Hutton's "Mercury and Me"
Brian May's "Queen in 3-D"
"Ask Phoebe" blog
I'm awaiting Ratty's "Queen Unseen" via Amazon. Back in Dec., it was unavailable. I'm eager to read David Evans and David Minns "This Was the Real Life" on Kindle next. My sister agreed to order it for me and loan me her Kindle. She rolled her eyes when I told her it was a book about Freddie Mercury. She calls it "my obsession." LOL
I have a question. Is it the same David Evans from "This Was the Real Life" the same David Evans as contributor for Peter Freestone's 1st book?
Doughnut, I understand what your trying to say about the interview.
That David Minns book has alot of info but they sure fought alot.How reliable is it?
Same reliability as all other books written by someone close to Freddie. They all wrote their stories, from.their POV. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
Jo T.
Yes it is the same David Evans.
And I feel that Jim simply understood this temperamental part of Freddie´s character and he knew, he doesn´t have to take everything too seriously. That´s how he got through this situation and was able to stay and trust Freddie again because at the end, Freddie wanted him to stay. He got through his phase "I don´t need you anymore" and moved to phase "Please stay". I kind of understand it and maybe Jim understood it too. Sometimes you musn´t listen to the words but to the heart.
Mika thank you for this as it has helped me try and see if from a different view point. Like NeverTooLate has said, from what is written it seems my feelings on the issue are different to what Jim's were and this is what frustrates me.
I feel the way the book is written in parts doesn't help. It annoying that JIm tells us an important part regarding Freddie's treatment of him and then doesn't explain it fully. To me it reads 'we had a row, we made up, and then the story changes direction. I would have liked him to explore his/ their feelings following the big row; why it happened and how Jim felt and if possible Freddie's explanation of why he did it.
When Freddie chucked him out because he didn't come home , well this was such double standards. Jim had from his POV seen another man leave Freddie's flat and yet this was totally disregarded following Freddie's decision to ask him to leave. Again I feel we needed more explanation of how this resolved this.
I will say in Freddie's defence that Peter has said that Freddie often needed to create situations so that he could work out how he felt. Maybe when he told Jim to 'f off' at the very beginning, it was his way of trying to find out how he really felt about Jim. Maybe it was also a way of testing Jim's reaction as Freddie did seem to like a good row to get his creative juices flowing and maybe he was testing to see if Jim was after Freddie' the rock star' or Freddie 'the normal man'. I do praise Jim as no matter what could have happened I don't think he would ever have gone and sold a story to these nasty hacks.
Can of worms......I do feel that MA had something to do with Freddie's decision for wanting Jim to leave in 1990 (I believe). The things that happened after Freddie died back this theory up for me. As someone has said, Freddie was not going to tell Jim as for one he seemed to hate confrontation and this surely would have created some kind of confrontation.
Peter has said that there was always people around Freddie telling him things and causing issues, trying to get closer to him.
There is one story that does make me smile. Following a row, Jim had left to cool of his frustrations and Freddie headed into the garden and snipped off all the flowers from the tulips in anger. Peter said that Freddie regretted doing it almost immediately . I can just imagine Freddie's face once he realized what he had done. I bet he did a lot of crawling to Jim lol.
Chevyman
I feel the book written by David Evans/Davaid Minns is reliable as it is their memories of Freddie. It's a hard pill to swallow when you read how awful Freddie was to David back then. I feel it took Freddie a while to change and grow up.
Freddienotfreddy..I agree I have read both of the mentioned fan fiction books and he did help me understand how hard it must have been for freddie.
All in all Freddie was a very complex man and he appeared to have a lot of insecurities .
Thank you all as finally being able to talk about my feelings after reading Mercury & Me is fab
