Poll: Should the UK leave the EU?

brENsKi wrote:

Nathan H wrote:

brENsKi wrote:
i suggest you check the BBC and how many times they've been caught out lying these last four years.

Evidence?

you make points about "evidence" - how about your evidence for those who've changed their minds? utter rubbish. everyone knew it was a once in a generation vote. and your claim of the "mind changers" - again rubbish: the Tories swept to power in December - gaining Red Wall seats - that had NEVER voted Tory before. Why? because they stood on a Get Brexit Done ticket, while Labour - after 4 years had no idea what side of the Brexit fence they stood and the Lib Dems - stood to "overturn" the referendum. Both parties were slaughtered. Incidentally, all 21 of your "staunch remainers" who changed parties twice (or more) during 2019 - all lost their seats in December. Voters are not the fools you think, they remembered what their MPs told them in 2015, 16 and 17 and remembered how those very MPs defied a public vote - repeatedly. all - every last man Jack of 'em were unceremoniously booted out of office in December.

i don't want to argue with you. if you're so convinced you're right, hang onto those beliefs. i hope you'll be big enough to admit you're wrong in two years time, when the EU project is unravelling (Austria, Italy, Greece, Hungary, all want out) and the UK will stand strong in the World.

my best guess? in two years time we won't be able to find a single person in the UK who will admit that they voted to remain.

I know how I voted, and - at long last - after 4 years of obstruction, it's now happening, I didn't vote leave for myself, I voted leave so that my son and his generation (and those thereafter) will be better for this.

i hope you don't mind, but please now find someone else (maybe a remain sympathizer) to continue this with, because it's clear you won't be swayed. and we know why, because the Remain campaign was only ever going to accept a result that they won.

I don't think it's necessary the "get Brexit done" thing people voted for in the general election, I think it was because people were sick to death of it and wanted to get it out the way ??.

And I'll be honest I get more worried everyday on the thought of it. I think the timing now of it now is typical because instead of the world uniting to fight coronavirus, the UK isn't going to be with most of Europe.

I think Brexit is probably going to be better for richer societies but not poorer ones. There's no denying it will help some things but what's the catch? It's inevitable I think that food prices will go up as it's going to become more expensive to import.

My whole family and everyone I know voted remain and most especially my family for my generation and younger.

Anyway, I might not be here in two years

i really didn't want to come back into this discussion, but you quoted me again - after i asked nicely if you'd leave me out of it. anyhow, one final time - i'll address each of your points in turn:

[color=blue] Nathan H wrote: I don't think it's necessary the "get Brexit done" thing people voted for in the general election, I think it was because people were sick to death of it and wanted to get it out the way ??.[/color]

no it wasn't. it was because the people in the former Labour Heartlands who voted leave, realised that Labour were no longer interested in them, they realised that the Tories would actually deliver Brexit.

[color=blue] Nathan H wrote: And I'll be honest I get more worried everyday on the thought of it. I think the timing now of it now is typical because instead of the world uniting to fight coronavirus, the UK isn't going to be with most of Europe.[/color]

seriously? you think we should be combining resources with the EU to fight Covid-19? The EU asked us to do so, on the basis that they'll gladly take our money but: would WE not have had any say in which vaccines to procure, at what price or in what quantity and to what delivery schedule. We would not be able to negotiate with a company the commission is negotiating with. We would have to stop our own negotiations if the EU started negotiating with a manufacturer we were already negotiating with. And, we'd be 28th out of 28 Nations once distribution commenced - as we're no longer part of the bloc.
https://www.ft.com/content/0160c4b4-8406-401a-860f-4de62deb9bab

[color=blue] Nathan H wrote: I think Brexit is probably going to be better for richer societies but not poorer ones. There's no denying it will help some things but what's the catch? It's inevitable I think that food prices will go up as it's going to become more expensive to import.[/color]

works both ways. it's either a free trade deal or WTO rules. WTO rules hurt the bloc more than the UK as they sell more to us than we sell to them. it's in the EU interests to do a deal. 9 major motor companies in Germany, France, Italy & Spain and French, Italian and Spanish food and drink manufacturers - all will be keen to avoid tariffs. Can you imagine how much they will lose once the UK seals trade deals with non-EU countries for similar products? There's plenty of countries out there just waiting to do business.

Please now, do us both a favour: don't quote me again. I have no interest in prolonging this. you're clearly a died-in-the-wool Europhile and that's ok. but i, along with 17,410,741 others (the highest turnout for anything ever in the UK) have more faith in the UK to stand on its own two feet, forge it's own path and succeed on its own merit.

Nah don't worry I'm not going to come back again I only originally wanted to put my points and represent what a good fraction of people believe in. Anyway I shouldn't have written anything because I didn't really have the time to lol.

(P.S. what if Brexit doesn't succeed? If you haven't done something before you don't really know how it will turn out. Queen didn't know that Bohemian Rhapsody would be successful, they had visions of it doing so but they didn't know until they did it. Personally it's a similar scenario as Brexit, is it worth the risk?)

Boris Johnson on Twitter:

People want their political leaders to be held to account and take responsibility. Which is why I'm going on The #Marr Show to blame the public for the second wave of #COVID19 and to blame the EU for the fact that Brexit is a disaster.

— Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson_MP) October 4, 2020

Nathan H wrote:Boris Johnson on Twitter:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People want their political leaders to be held to account and take responsibility. Which is why I&#39;m going on The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Marr?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Marr</a> Show to blame the public for the second wave of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/COVID19?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#COVID19</a> and to blame the EU for the fact that Brexit is a disaster.</p>&mdash; Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson_MP) <a href="https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1312665242221117441?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

are you seriously that gullible that you fell for this. the twitter account actually says Parody Boris Johnson - it's even visible at the top of the clip you posted!!!
c'mon. seriously fella, you kill your liberal-left argument with every new post you make.

brENsKi wrote:

Nathan H wrote:Boris Johnson on Twitter:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People want their political leaders to be held to account and take responsibility. Which is why I&#39;m going on The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Marr?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Marr</a> Show to blame the public for the second wave of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/COVID19?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#COVID19</a> and to blame the EU for the fact that Brexit is a disaster.</p>&mdash; Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson_MP) <a href="https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1312665242221117441?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

are you seriously that gullible that you fell for this. the twitter account actually says Parody Boris Johnson - it's even visible at the top of the clip you posted!!!
c'mon. seriously fella, you kill your liberal-left argument with every new post you make.

Of course I knew it was a parody - I was only having a laugh. Am I not allowed to say my own opinion as you are coming across now as a dictator. I can do whatever I want to thank you very much. You're not my boss.

I'll tell you something I'm not really left-wing at all, I'm central pretty much. I disagree a lot with what Labour say as I do with what Tories say.

Nathan H wrote:Of course I knew it was a parody - I was only having a laugh. Am I not allowed to say my own opinion as you are coming across now as a dictator. I can do whatever I want to thank you very much. You're not my boss.

I'll tell you something I'm not really left-wing at all, I'm central pretty much. I disagree a lot with what Labour say as I do with what Tories say.

then why head the twitter repost with your own comment:
Boris Johnson On Twitter
only two reasons:
1. you didn't realise it was a parody, or
2. like most of the UK left wing - you like to try to smear anyone who doesn't hold your views. and what better way than to claim it actually was Boris.

play the game fairly - or don't play at all.

brENsKi wrote:
then why head the twitter repost with your own comment:
Boris Johnson On Twitter
only two reasons:
1. you didn't realise it was a parody, or
2. like most of the UK left wing - you like to try to smear anyone who doesn't hold your views. and what better way than to claim it actually was Boris.

play the game fairly - or don't play at all.

Of course I knew it was a parody I've been following it for months. I'm not a thick person for your knowledge, I've got nine GCSEs, two A-Levels and a BTEC subsidiary diploma. I've passed every qualification I've ever done, first time.

I just find some really good points made from the account. This particular one was one of the more jokey ones. I follow a Keir Starmer one too but I haven't seen one which is appropriate for this particular thread.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be banned from here. In my opinion you're the one that needs to play the game fairly - allow other people's opinions and stop acting like a dictator. You're going to win if I stop responding and that will support the fact that Tories always win by allowing less freedom.

(Honestly though I'm just left of centre in the political spectrum so to call me left-wing is insulting. I voted for the first time last year as I was the right age to and I didn't vote Labour.)

This parody account really does make some good points based on proper evidence. Just look at this:

Remember the rules - hands, face, then shuffle up and pat someone on the back.#PMQs pic.twitter.com/zY8osso0EA

— Parody Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson_MP) October 7, 2020

Nathan H wrote:

brENsKi wrote:
then why head the twitter repost with your own comment:
Boris Johnson On Twitter
only two reasons:
1. you didn't realise it was a parody, or
2. like most of the UK left wing - you like to try to smear anyone who doesn't hold your views. and what better way than to claim it actually was Boris.

play the game fairly - or don't play at all.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be banned from here. In my opinion you're the one that needs to play the game fairly - allow other people's opinions and stop acting like a dictator. You're going to win if I stop responding and that will support the fact that Tories always win by allowing less freedom.

it's got nothing to do with not responding/winning - and absolutely nothing to do with dictating. the post was funny. what is wrong with it is you did exactly what those currently telling us how to think, do.
you tried to pass it off as Boris Johnson on Twitter[/u]. at least the original twitter account clearly said Parody Boris Johnson[/u]. but you felt the need to repost it here as Boris Johnson on Twitter[/u] . why do that? what's the point? other than to try and con people that it was Boris?
if you can't see what is wrong with that then it's you who has the problem - but you'll fit in very nicely with Carole Cadwalladr, Laura Kuenssberg, Katherine Viner, Kevin Maguire, Pippa Crerar and all of the other left-wing myth-purveyors - who know what the truth is, but would rather sell the public a steady diet of crap.

as i said Play Fairly.

brENsKi wrote:
it's got nothing to do with not responding/winning - and absolutely nothing to do with dictating. the post was funny. what is wrong with it is you did exactly what those currently telling us how to think, do.
you tried to pass it off as Boris Johnson on Twitter[/u]. at least the original twitter account clearly said Parody Boris Johnson[/u]. but you felt the need to repost it here as Boris Johnson on Twitter[/u] . why do that? what's the point? other than to try and con people that it was Boris?
if you can't see what is wrong with that then it's you who has the problem - but you'll fit in very nicely with Carole Cadwalladr, Laura Kuenssberg, Katherine Viner, Kevin Maguire, Pippa Crerar and all of the other left-wing myth-purveyors - who know what the truth is, but would rather sell the public a steady diet of crap.

as i said Play Fairly.

Dictating? Anyone who is democratic wouldn't be bossing people around like you have been to me. Am I not allowed to say my own opinion on anything? Please answer

You must've actually believed it as you are taking this very seriously. Judging by what you've said I deserve to go to prison.

You seriously have a problem with anyone who doesn't agree with you. How on Earth could have I said my original point on Brexit without you being incredibly rude and going of in a tangent? Please answer

Nathan H wrote:

brENsKi wrote:
it's got nothing to do with not responding/winning - and absolutely nothing to do with dictating. the post was funny. what is wrong with it is you did exactly what those currently telling us how to think, do.
you tried to pass it off as Boris Johnson on Twitter[/u]. at least the original twitter account clearly said Parody Boris Johnson[/u]. but you felt the need to repost it here as Boris Johnson on Twitter[/u] . why do that? what's the point? other than to try and con people that it was Boris?
if you can't see what is wrong with that then it's you who has the problem - but you'll fit in very nicely with Carole Cadwalladr, Laura Kuenssberg, Katherine Viner, Kevin Maguire, Pippa Crerar and all of the other left-wing myth-purveyors - who know what the truth is, but would rather sell the public a steady diet of crap.

as i said Play Fairly.

Dictating? Anyone who is democratic wouldn't be bossing people around like you have been to me. Am I not allowed to say my own opinion on anything? Please answer

You must've actually believed it as you are taking this very seriously. Judging by what you've said I deserve to go to prison.

You seriously have a problem with anyone who doesn't agree with you. How on Earth could have I said my original point on Brexit without you being incredibly rude and going of in a tangent? Please answer

wtf are you talking about? unlike you i can read and understand what the word "parody" means. prison? where have i implied that? your reactions are so far-left "woe is me, stop persecuting me" - you're unbelievable.
no i won't answer your (latest) question. you don't get to demand what i reply to - especially when you have spent the last few posts diverting away from my question about your post.
no one is bossing you around. if you are unable to see that adding an unnecessary heading to your post: Boris Johnson On Twitter[/u] - to make it look like he actually said it, is wrong, then you do have a problem. your post could've been honest - something like "found this funny post on twitter" - but no, you couldn't be honest. instead you had to distort things with your heading: Boris Johnson On Twitter[/u] puerile stuff.
you're the one taking it seriously. you keep coming back - moving the goalposts of your argument...another thing the extreme left are known for: lose an argument, veer off on another tangent. you can't be reasoned with - again another extreme left characteristic. you can claim to be centre-left all you like, but you bear the traits of the extreme left.

if you stayed on topic and reasoned within the subject that'd be different...i'd be happy to stay and reason with you. you do nothing of the sort. you divert, deflect and flit from any useless straw to the next - clutching wildly as your argument sinks further and further.
argue with yourself from now on - at least you have a 50/50 chance of winning that, albeit losing in the same process.
you really can have the last word here - it'll be like all your previous replies - a diversion into some other unrelated blind alley.
so, with that i'm out.

Most of the things I say are credited or are views shared or stated on several news outlets. The stuff you say is really just your hatred to people who disagree with you politically. You're avoiding some of my credible points because you know I'm right and you're wrong. I've seen you do it to many other people on here, you don't like a point someone makes and then you try manipulating the person to make it seem like they are the bad ones.

Finally, you're the one who keeps coming back. You didn't had to respond to points I make out of nowhere but you do because you don't like reading someone which you disagree with. If you try to deny that then explain.