Saddam Captured

"My enemy's enemy is my friend"
Thank you Brandon. That reason, and that reason only, is why America has had to support some not-very-nice people over the years. American interventions abroad are all about defenidng their interests - security and economic - and nothing else, sod moralism. Somosa, Galtieri, the Shah and Bin laden were backed during the Cold war purely to contain Communism (the number one threat to the U.S. at the time). America is now allied with Musharaf's regime in Pakistan, Russia, China and Saudi Arabia (and was previously allied with Saddam) to contain Islamic Fundamentalism and so-called rogue states(and specifically, because those nations are on the frontline in the battle against Islamic terrorists - again, the number one threat to the U.S.) Morality and ideology does not come into it - the White House is only using the democracy and freedom rhetoric becuase A)LAck of representation (and prosperity)is a root cause of terrorism and B) It's the only way to 'sell' the war to the western public.

I'm not saying such rampant self-interest in the world is wrong, but it is inevitable.

"'My enemy's enemy is my friend'
Thank you Brandon. That reason, and that reason only, is why America has had to support some not-very-nice people over the years."

"Had to" and "not-very-nice"

You are correct that this war is not being fought for any of the "moral" reasons now being trotted out but why then can you not be more accurate about the above quote: change the "had to" to "chose to" and "not nice" to "pyschopathic fascist mass murderers."

What great threat did Salvador Allende pose to the United States, for example? The CIA had him killed not because he threatened to turn Chile into a communist country but because he wanted to make Chile more democratic. Nelson Mandella was imprisoned for 28 years while almost total US support was given to the racist Afrikaner government - what great threat to the US did he pose? The Vietnamese won their national independence and then went to war with both the Chinese and the Khmer Rouge. Unless I've missed something, Vietnam has never posed any sort of military or economic threat to the US. Since the beginning of the Cold War continuing US admins deliberately over-estimated the threat of the Soviet Union in order to justify their support for fascism around the world. They never have been interested in democracy for democracy's sake alone - as Jean Kirkaptrick once infamously told the UN, the difference between fascists and communists is that the USA can do business with fascists.

The US gov't is run by people, therfore it can never be perfect. I don't see however, what your last comments on mandella etc have anything to do with the current situation.

A lot of varied oppinions, and a lot of bullshit, but a good talking point, can't wait until Bin Laden is caught.

And who will capture George W. Bush...?

Big Bam, my old china.
"The US gov't is run by people, therfore it can never be perfect."

I never said the US was perfect, but I do expect people to learn from past "mistakes," not to keep repeating them.

"I don't see however, what your last comments on mandella etc have anything to do with the current situation."

My comments are a response to wreckage's attempts to portray America as "under threat," thus excusing its support for fascism around the world. They appeared before his post and not after, for some reason.

I agree with Holly completetly. Excellent post.

Do your hw....America did support Iraq because it was the lesser of two evils compared to Kuwait...Iraq at that time was the enemy of our enemy...so...you know how history went from there...the country didn't realize even thought he was the lesser of the two evils...he was still evil...

"Do your hw....America did support Iraq because it was the lesser of two evils compared to Kuwait"

Hilarious.

To all those claiming this is a war for "freedom" or "democracy" and blaming France Germany etc for not kissing American ass, where were you or what did you say in protest when at least two American administrations SUPPORTED Saddam and turned a blind eye to his atrocities dating back to 1978? Don't you think it's a bit late to get on a high horse now lecturing about human rights, atrocities and mass graves? When the CIA trained Saddam's thugs how to use nerve gas against Iran (which he subsequently used against the Kurds), I don't recall too many of you keyboard-hawk types standing up for human rights and democracy in Iraq. Evil thugs like Somoza, Suharto, Batista, Galtieri, Pinochet, Noriega etc were all created and supported by the US and it's only when they stop obeying orders that the US creates a reason to go to war against them (with Saddam it's weapons of mass destruction or any other administrative reason that Joe Public will swallow, with Noreiga it was drugs even though Bush Snr was head of the CIA and then claimed when he became President that he didn't know about Noreiga's drug running). But don't let little things like the facts get in the way of your ex post-facto moralising.


I agree 100% Holly. You said a mouth full. There are so many people here (in the US) that still carry a grudge against France and Germany it makes me sick. They had every RIGHT (that is what this country is founded on right?) to say no to the 'almighty' US. What happened to finding Bin Laden?
It was slowing down to a pace that the government didn't like. Or more realistically speaking it slowed down to a point where Georgie had to do something to keep his 'ass kicking' image up to par. So he and the Brits made up the WOMD gimic to plot a war that should have never been. If they wanted Sadaam out of there, and stripped of his power, don't tell me they couldn't have sent some special forces and had him assasinated. They didn't have to go to all the trouble of concocting some LIE to do it. But war makes the people happy, and is good for the stumbling economy, and for a president's falling rating. Now what is even worse is that this great terrorist threat in custody, he just got another 4 years in office. And I fear what he will think of next. What country to invade under false pretences. What other lies will he tell to get the patriotic furvor stirred again? Lets hope it isn't any thing to start a WW3. If so, we can all kiss our asses good-bye.

Well Matt I'm thinking about getting a HUGE tattoo of a pair of lips on my ass, just in case WW3 happens you know.

LOL! Me too :)

"getting a HUGE tattoo of a pair of lips on my ass"

*coughing* what?!?! lips?!?! but why a tattoo only?

did that sound perverted? lol

It's so easy for you to say we could have just gone in there and assassinated them...look at the law for a second and realize we can't assassinate people from other countries...and if we did...the whole world would be up our ass.. bitching..why did we do that for..and people saying "Let's talk it over and see nothing get done for the next 10 billion years"..The war certainly wasn't made up...the economy started going down the crapper while Clinton was president...I'm not saying Clinton was a bad president but that was a fact..look it up..and lets see...oh everyone forgot about Sept.11....that couldn't have affected the economy now would it..I wonder???hmmm....gee whiz..this is a hard one...*looks over in the distance*..are those Iraqi people waving the American and British flag or is it my imagination? Must be because no one sees that...no duh not everyone in Iraq likes what we did.. mainly Sadaams loyalists and others...people don't see that things take time...everyone these days are too stubborn...I'm not saying it's not patriotic to not support the war..it's patriotic if you don't support and patriotic if you do...just remember how many people died for you...Remember do your hw folks...helps out with the classwork later...that's my opinion...I know a lot of you are gonna bash it...but I don't care....cause' it's my belief just like you have one...

Mex? Perverted? No no no!
You are the most innocent male on this *coughbullshitcough* board!

I have to get a tattoo coz its impossible to kiss my own ass!

Want to get matching lip tattoos Matt? lol :-P