Well, you guys can get the tattoos, i'll provide the lips for your tattoo Marie ;)
just tell me when, and send for the airplane ticket :)
Thread
Posts in chronological order
"Remember do your hw folks"
Every time you say that I'm gonna remind you that you didn't know the difference between Iran & Kuwait.
Every time you say that I'm gonna remind you that you didn't know the difference between Iran & Kuwait.
FairyQueen you have the right to express your opinion as much as you have to respect others.
This war wasn't supposed to be about Sept. 11/01. The War in Iraq was a war with other motives around Iraq, and the supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction that haven't been found yet, if they exist. Now that Saddam has been captured, he says that there isn't any Weapons of Mass Destruction.
After what happened on 9/11 (which is a sad moment in history no matter what), the focus was to hunt for Bin Laden. Now that the CIA, the First World governments haven't found him yet, and yes the US economy has dwindled by the terrorist attack. The US and UK, needed to pick an enemy to make a war. Because, and unfortunatetly, war does boost up the economy. However, while people go to war (because they registered, no one forced them to), the shift sways to the war, and completetly ignores the main concerns of the country (i.e. US) such as improving education, decreasing crime, health care, and other important issues. I wouldn't vote for a president so he or she could invade another country in order to "destroy" a tyrant or "democritise" a country. It's absurd. If this war was truly, and purely done for economic reasons, such as oil, and to improve the US economy it's shady, pathetic, and wrong! Still, this is another purpose for Globalisation, the utter "Americanisation" of the world.
You might think, "Oh but what about Iraq, Saddam being a threat to my country". That's hogwash IMO. We haven't heard from Saddam since the Gulf War. When the CIA couldnt find Bin Laden, the US and UK government needed a new bone to pick, and they chose Saddam. Some say that Saddam was picked because of Bush and his motive to finish what Bush Snr started, or the infamous, and still not proven (as far as I know) that Saddam was plotting to kill Bush Snr.
Remember this, the US were the ones that placed Saddam in power back in the 70's, and the ones that gave Saddam chemical weapons to use against Iran.
Also remember that the CIA trained Bin Laden during the Afghanistan conflict in the early 80's.
This just proves how futile the US's foreign policies are.
This war wasn't supposed to be about Sept. 11/01. The War in Iraq was a war with other motives around Iraq, and the supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction that haven't been found yet, if they exist. Now that Saddam has been captured, he says that there isn't any Weapons of Mass Destruction.
After what happened on 9/11 (which is a sad moment in history no matter what), the focus was to hunt for Bin Laden. Now that the CIA, the First World governments haven't found him yet, and yes the US economy has dwindled by the terrorist attack. The US and UK, needed to pick an enemy to make a war. Because, and unfortunatetly, war does boost up the economy. However, while people go to war (because they registered, no one forced them to), the shift sways to the war, and completetly ignores the main concerns of the country (i.e. US) such as improving education, decreasing crime, health care, and other important issues. I wouldn't vote for a president so he or she could invade another country in order to "destroy" a tyrant or "democritise" a country. It's absurd. If this war was truly, and purely done for economic reasons, such as oil, and to improve the US economy it's shady, pathetic, and wrong! Still, this is another purpose for Globalisation, the utter "Americanisation" of the world.
You might think, "Oh but what about Iraq, Saddam being a threat to my country". That's hogwash IMO. We haven't heard from Saddam since the Gulf War. When the CIA couldnt find Bin Laden, the US and UK government needed a new bone to pick, and they chose Saddam. Some say that Saddam was picked because of Bush and his motive to finish what Bush Snr started, or the infamous, and still not proven (as far as I know) that Saddam was plotting to kill Bush Snr.
Remember this, the US were the ones that placed Saddam in power back in the 70's, and the ones that gave Saddam chemical weapons to use against Iran.
Also remember that the CIA trained Bin Laden during the Afghanistan conflict in the early 80's.
This just proves how futile the US's foreign policies are.
Feck the plane ticket Mex! Sheesh! :-P
I agree with you on what we did with Sadaam in the past..I know that's true....but I explained before why we did it(all about kuwait..lesser evils bigger evils and all that jazz) and should learn from past mistakes...I'm not saying your're wrong...I'm saying I know and that's why pencils have erasers...of course he's been quiet but...you should have seen the pics from when he killed 10000 kurds..I almost puked when I saw all those mass graves..and I know we made a mistake by leaving them there...well...we got back at saddaam and brought his butt down...we could have went into Iraq on human rights alone..he did rape many women..and also considering killing the widows of the men he killed when they went to Saddaam...he was just a disgusting man...now he's a disgusting bum...but your facts about what happened in the past are true...
FairyQueen you are right about the Kurds, Saddam was a mass murderer. I never said he wasn't. However, the whole war wasn't to get Saddam but it was to uncover these weapons that are nowhere to be found. Saddam has done some atrocities, and the Iraqui people seem (I say seem, because I don't know how they live nor I know whats really going on there. I don't rely my views towards US newscasts who are biased) to have suffered a lot. I would never forgive a mass murderer no matter what their motives were.
I just don't agree with the motives of the war. Why should the US have to stick their noses into every problem in every single country in this world?! Doesn't the US have their own problems?! Why is the crime rate so high in the US? Why is education so mediocre in the US? Why is there a high unemployment rate?; amognst other problems. Should the US government emphasise in making their country a good, heathly, and well educated country? They shouldnt waste their time in being a Messiah imo.
I just don't agree with the motives of the war. Why should the US have to stick their noses into every problem in every single country in this world?! Doesn't the US have their own problems?! Why is the crime rate so high in the US? Why is education so mediocre in the US? Why is there a high unemployment rate?; amognst other problems. Should the US government emphasise in making their country a good, heathly, and well educated country? They shouldnt waste their time in being a Messiah imo.
Another comment that I'd like to add that is war is terrorism, which I have said before. Still, in the past century there has been higher mortality rates due to conflicts involving in the US than any other mass murder or war not involving the US. I believe that a country should defend for itself IF (a big IF) the country is really threatened by another country or opponent. Still this doesn't justify this War in Iraq or this Operation Freedom. I believe that if a country has a real conflict with a neighbouring country, outsiders shouldnt inflitrate themselves in it. Let the people fend for themselves.
About the rapes, listen, I live in Puerto Rico, and from the late 40's till last year the US military has occupied the little island of Vieques in order to train there. Now since the US occupied that island they were forced to live with the citizens there, and unfortunatetly, mostly during the 40's towards 70's, a lot of civilian women and young ladies were raped by US soldiers. That is very sickening, and degrading. So mass rape doesn't happen in tyranical countries only.
About the rapes, listen, I live in Puerto Rico, and from the late 40's till last year the US military has occupied the little island of Vieques in order to train there. Now since the US occupied that island they were forced to live with the citizens there, and unfortunatetly, mostly during the 40's towards 70's, a lot of civilian women and young ladies were raped by US soldiers. That is very sickening, and degrading. So mass rape doesn't happen in tyranical countries only.
'It's so easy for you to say we could have just gone in there and assassinated them...look at the law for a second and realize we can't assassinate people from other countries'
Thats true. Only from our own.
'The war certainly wasn't made up'
No it wan't made up. Never said it was. I said the reason for the war was fabricated. There are no weapons of mass destruction. And there never were. Bush didn't like Saddam. He was a tryrant. And I agree he was. If that was the reason for the war, then be honest and tell us that. Don't hang on to the getting old 'terrorist threat' story. Tell the truth for a change.
'oh everyone forgot about Sept.11....that couldn't have affected the economy now would it..I wonder???hmmm....gee whiz..this is a hard one...'
Not really smarty pants. That was a tragic event. Not war. There is a big difference. while there are tragic things in war, what happened on 9-11 was not war related. So the economy acted in a way to correspond to that event.
'no duh not everyone in Iraq likes what we did..'
Most of them don't. They are not a 'western' country. They have lived under a completely different life style, and ruling system. Let them pick it. Why does the US have to force democrocy down their throats? Because they want to 'western-ize' the world, and make everyone want to join the 'coalition of the willing'.
...just remember how many people died for you...'
How many died for me? No one died for me. They died for an idea of Freedom. To keep the US free. So don't give me that crap. How many died in Viet Nam? 58,168. For what? Freedom for the people in the US? No.
'Remember do your hw folks...helps out with the classwork later'
If you need to, I have some books you can read. Smart ass.
Thats true. Only from our own.
'The war certainly wasn't made up'
No it wan't made up. Never said it was. I said the reason for the war was fabricated. There are no weapons of mass destruction. And there never were. Bush didn't like Saddam. He was a tryrant. And I agree he was. If that was the reason for the war, then be honest and tell us that. Don't hang on to the getting old 'terrorist threat' story. Tell the truth for a change.
'oh everyone forgot about Sept.11....that couldn't have affected the economy now would it..I wonder???hmmm....gee whiz..this is a hard one...'
Not really smarty pants. That was a tragic event. Not war. There is a big difference. while there are tragic things in war, what happened on 9-11 was not war related. So the economy acted in a way to correspond to that event.
'no duh not everyone in Iraq likes what we did..'
Most of them don't. They are not a 'western' country. They have lived under a completely different life style, and ruling system. Let them pick it. Why does the US have to force democrocy down their throats? Because they want to 'western-ize' the world, and make everyone want to join the 'coalition of the willing'.
...just remember how many people died for you...'
How many died for me? No one died for me. They died for an idea of Freedom. To keep the US free. So don't give me that crap. How many died in Viet Nam? 58,168. For what? Freedom for the people in the US? No.
'Remember do your hw folks...helps out with the classwork later'
If you need to, I have some books you can read. Smart ass.
Reading back in your post FairyQ I have to agree with Holly here, there is a HUGE difference between Iraq and Kuwait.
Just one point who made me crazy. I hate this Saddam, his capture is a good thing, sure, but when I heard Rumsfeld said "Hussein tried to pass himself for a courageous man, in fact he is just a weak parasite, I wanted to say to him, ok my courageous Donald, go into a 3m2 hole under ground for six months, we'll see if you are still so courageous after that !"
The other point which make me crazy is : US has attacked Irak because Saddam "owned" mass destruction weapons. Now they got Saddam, but after one year, they still don't have find one only weapon in the country, and the capture of Saddam will legitimate their action, although their only goal was the oil, as they knew they were absolutely no weapons !
Just wait a while and we'll soon find the WOMD, its only a matter of time before Saddam starts squealing like the stuffed pig he is. Also had to laugh yesterday, Jacqes Chirac, and Gerhard Schroeder sent telegrams to George Bush congratulating American on the capture, saying " Saddam Hussein caused horrible suffering to the region, and we hope the capture will help the international community's effort to rebuild Iraq" what a bloody cheek, if France and Germany had got their way, Saddam would still be in power causing untold atrocities.
Revelations from an Iraqi scientist
RAY SUAREZ: The task of finding that definitive proof falls in part to specialized teams within the US Military. New York times" correspondent Judith Miller is reporting on the search conducted by units of the 75th exploitation task force. And she joins us now by phone south of Baghdad. Judith Miller, welcome back to the program. Has the unit you've been traveling with found any proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
JUDITH MILLER: Well, I think they found something more than a "smoking gun." What they've found is what is being called here by the members of MET Alpha-- that's Mobile Exploitation Team Alpha-- what they found is a silver bullet in the form of a person, an Iraqi individual, a scientist, as we've called him, who really worked on the programs, who knows them firsthand, and who has led MET Team Alpha people to some pretty startling conclusions that have kind of challenged the American intelligence community's under... previous understanding of, you know, what we thought the Iraqis were doing.
RAY SUAREZ: Does this confirm in a way the insistence coming from the U.S. government that after the war, various Iraqi tongues would loosen, and there might be people who would be willing to help?
JUDITH MILLER: Yes, it clearly does. I mean, it's become pretty clear to those of us on the ground that the international inspectors, without actually controlling the territory and changing the political environment, would never have been able to get these people to step forward. I mean, you can only do that when you know there is not going to be a secret policeman at your door the next day, and that your family isn't going to suffer because you're talking. And that's what the Bush administration has finally done. They have changed the political environment, and they've enabled people like the scientists that MET Alpha has found to come forth.
Now, what initially the weapons hunters thought they were going to find were stockpiles of kind of chemical and biological agents. That's what they anticipated finding. We now know from the scientist that, in fact, that probably isn't what we're going to find. What they will find, and what they have found so far, are kind of precursors; that is, building blocks of what you would need to put together a chemical or a biological weapon.
But those stockpiles that we've heard about, well, those have either been destroyed by Saddam Hussein, according to the scientists, or they have been shipped to Syria for safekeeping. And what I think the interpretation of the MET Alpha people is, is why he did this. They believe that Saddam Hussein wanted to destroy the evidence of his unconventional weapons programs, and that's what he has done-- not only since 1995, but also in the weeks and months that led up to the war itself. There was mass destruction.
And the scientist who has been cooperating with MET Alpha has actually said that he participated in... he kind of watched, you know, a warehouse being burned that contained potentially incriminating biological equipment. So clearly what Saddam Hussein wanted to do was cover his weapons of mass destruction tracks. And that means that the whole shape of the hunt here on the ground for unconventional weapons is changing.
Uncovering the tracks of Iraq's WMD program
RAY SUAREZ: When you develop a site through U.S. intelligence or from a source like the scientist you've been telling us about, how long does it take the unit you're traveling with to give it a good going over, figure out whether there's anything there that needs further inspection?
JUDITH MILLER: Well, let me give you an example. MET Alpha and I spent nearly a week at a place called the Karbala Ammunitions Production and Filling Station. This was a vast facility: Over 50 buildings, five square miles worth of ammunition, mortars, shells, and buried containers that were then ripped open by MET Alpha people.
And what they
RAY SUAREZ: The task of finding that definitive proof falls in part to specialized teams within the US Military. New York times" correspondent Judith Miller is reporting on the search conducted by units of the 75th exploitation task force. And she joins us now by phone south of Baghdad. Judith Miller, welcome back to the program. Has the unit you've been traveling with found any proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
JUDITH MILLER: Well, I think they found something more than a "smoking gun." What they've found is what is being called here by the members of MET Alpha-- that's Mobile Exploitation Team Alpha-- what they found is a silver bullet in the form of a person, an Iraqi individual, a scientist, as we've called him, who really worked on the programs, who knows them firsthand, and who has led MET Team Alpha people to some pretty startling conclusions that have kind of challenged the American intelligence community's under... previous understanding of, you know, what we thought the Iraqis were doing.
RAY SUAREZ: Does this confirm in a way the insistence coming from the U.S. government that after the war, various Iraqi tongues would loosen, and there might be people who would be willing to help?
JUDITH MILLER: Yes, it clearly does. I mean, it's become pretty clear to those of us on the ground that the international inspectors, without actually controlling the territory and changing the political environment, would never have been able to get these people to step forward. I mean, you can only do that when you know there is not going to be a secret policeman at your door the next day, and that your family isn't going to suffer because you're talking. And that's what the Bush administration has finally done. They have changed the political environment, and they've enabled people like the scientists that MET Alpha has found to come forth.
Now, what initially the weapons hunters thought they were going to find were stockpiles of kind of chemical and biological agents. That's what they anticipated finding. We now know from the scientist that, in fact, that probably isn't what we're going to find. What they will find, and what they have found so far, are kind of precursors; that is, building blocks of what you would need to put together a chemical or a biological weapon.
But those stockpiles that we've heard about, well, those have either been destroyed by Saddam Hussein, according to the scientists, or they have been shipped to Syria for safekeeping. And what I think the interpretation of the MET Alpha people is, is why he did this. They believe that Saddam Hussein wanted to destroy the evidence of his unconventional weapons programs, and that's what he has done-- not only since 1995, but also in the weeks and months that led up to the war itself. There was mass destruction.
And the scientist who has been cooperating with MET Alpha has actually said that he participated in... he kind of watched, you know, a warehouse being burned that contained potentially incriminating biological equipment. So clearly what Saddam Hussein wanted to do was cover his weapons of mass destruction tracks. And that means that the whole shape of the hunt here on the ground for unconventional weapons is changing.
Uncovering the tracks of Iraq's WMD program
RAY SUAREZ: When you develop a site through U.S. intelligence or from a source like the scientist you've been telling us about, how long does it take the unit you're traveling with to give it a good going over, figure out whether there's anything there that needs further inspection?
JUDITH MILLER: Well, let me give you an example. MET Alpha and I spent nearly a week at a place called the Karbala Ammunitions Production and Filling Station. This was a vast facility: Over 50 buildings, five square miles worth of ammunition, mortars, shells, and buried containers that were then ripped open by MET Alpha people.
And what they
"Reassessing [Judith] Miller: U.S. intelligence on Iraq's WMD deserves a second look. So does the reporting of the New York Times' Judith Miller."
http://slate.msn.com/id/2083736/
"Lay all Judith Miller's New York Times stories end to end, from late 2001 to June 2003 and you get a desolate picture of a reporter with an agenda, both manipulating and being manipulated by US government officials, Iraqi exiles and defectors"
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn08182003.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2083736/
"Lay all Judith Miller's New York Times stories end to end, from late 2001 to June 2003 and you get a desolate picture of a reporter with an agenda, both manipulating and being manipulated by US government officials, Iraqi exiles and defectors"
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn08182003.html
United States forces and Central Intelligence Agency experts have found no proof of banned weapons in Iraq and have determined that that country's nuclear weapons programme was in the
"very most rudimentary state", the US Congress was told on Thursday.
"It clearly does not look like a massive resurgent programme based on what we've discovered now," David Kay, head of the 1,400-person Iraq Survey Group, which is searching for banned weapons in Iraq, told House and Senate intelligence committees.
Before invading Iraq, the Bush administration had said the Saddam Hussein regime had a well-developed nuclear programme.
He said the group had found evidence of "an intent of senior level Iraqi officials, including Saddam, to continue production at some future point in time of weapons of mass destruction".
Kay said the group also found missiles and other equipment not declared to the United Nations weapons inspectors.
"This includes substantial equipment and activity in the chemical and biological area, a much more substantial activity in the missile area; the Iraqis were engaged in a very full-scale programme that would have extended their delivery systems out beyond 1,000 kilometres," he said.
"That is enough to reach Ankara, Cairo, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh; these were both ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missiles that would fit a Chinese Silkworm (missile)," the former UN weapons inspector said.
He said there was a lot of work to be done "before we can declare we're at the end of this road rather than at the beginning. We have found a great deal, much of which was not declared to the United Nations".
The search by Kay's team is expected to continue for another six to nine months.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/17/iraq.evidence/
"very most rudimentary state", the US Congress was told on Thursday.
"It clearly does not look like a massive resurgent programme based on what we've discovered now," David Kay, head of the 1,400-person Iraq Survey Group, which is searching for banned weapons in Iraq, told House and Senate intelligence committees.
Before invading Iraq, the Bush administration had said the Saddam Hussein regime had a well-developed nuclear programme.
He said the group had found evidence of "an intent of senior level Iraqi officials, including Saddam, to continue production at some future point in time of weapons of mass destruction".
Kay said the group also found missiles and other equipment not declared to the United Nations weapons inspectors.
"This includes substantial equipment and activity in the chemical and biological area, a much more substantial activity in the missile area; the Iraqis were engaged in a very full-scale programme that would have extended their delivery systems out beyond 1,000 kilometres," he said.
"That is enough to reach Ankara, Cairo, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh; these were both ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missiles that would fit a Chinese Silkworm (missile)," the former UN weapons inspector said.
He said there was a lot of work to be done "before we can declare we're at the end of this road rather than at the beginning. We have found a great deal, much of which was not declared to the United Nations".
The search by Kay's team is expected to continue for another six to nine months.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/17/iraq.evidence/