Buttlick!!!!
We should meet up!! I live ten minutes from Newport!! I think you already know that though..aren't you a Hoosier??? EWWWWW!!
Doesn't UK beat IU in basketball like allllllll the time??? University of Kentucky that is, not United Kingdom for all you british folks.
;)
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there are plenty of americans pissed off at bush also, we are not all backing the war, some us hate the fact that the whole world hates us.
Britain loves you cause you don't let terrorist's fuck you up, rock on GW, here's to 4 more years.
People have hated America since the day thos country was born. Don't let it bother you that people hate us. I always know we are the ones to have the have the last laugh so don't fret if some fools hate us. If they didn't like the U.S.A, they wouldn't need America's money, now would they?
What about the genocide that is going on in Sudan? Thousands upon thousands of black people are being killed and being driven from their homes. This picture I saw in the National Geographic magazine of this black Sudanese woman in her hut after she was driven out of her home with her straving children. Just horrific.
Just as usual the U.N doesn't care. I'm not surprised. After they were being sued for slavery, I'm not surprised at any of the rediculous actions they take anymore. And as usual, America actually cares. Powell was talking about it the other day and how others should help stop this.
This world sometimes, just makes me puke. The people who try to do good are struck down and described as fakes and liars.
Most of those 11,000 Iraqi people were killed by terrorists who don't care about their own people. They will do antyhing to stop a stable and peaceful country because that means they can't brainwash people. If people are free, they're hard to brainwash because no one is holding them down and they can prosper on their own. Terrorists can't take advantage of these people because they will be too busy exercising their freedom by having jobs, learning and taking care of families. It's hard to find a scapegoat when you have no angry, discouraged people to take advantage of.
What about the genocide that is going on in Sudan? Thousands upon thousands of black people are being killed and being driven from their homes. This picture I saw in the National Geographic magazine of this black Sudanese woman in her hut after she was driven out of her home with her straving children. Just horrific.
Just as usual the U.N doesn't care. I'm not surprised. After they were being sued for slavery, I'm not surprised at any of the rediculous actions they take anymore. And as usual, America actually cares. Powell was talking about it the other day and how others should help stop this.
This world sometimes, just makes me puke. The people who try to do good are struck down and described as fakes and liars.
Most of those 11,000 Iraqi people were killed by terrorists who don't care about their own people. They will do antyhing to stop a stable and peaceful country because that means they can't brainwash people. If people are free, they're hard to brainwash because no one is holding them down and they can prosper on their own. Terrorists can't take advantage of these people because they will be too busy exercising their freedom by having jobs, learning and taking care of families. It's hard to find a scapegoat when you have no angry, discouraged people to take advantage of.
"And as usual, America actually cares. Powell was talking about it the other day and how others should help stop this."
And what have we done to stop this?
Fairy, we're not a sainted country. We've ignored plenty of attrocities throughout human history. We've contributed more than our fair share with the native americans and african slavery ourselves...as well as putting folks like Saddam, Osama, and various other dicators in power through US backing. We're rather fickle that way ;o)
We're certainly a good country, but we can do a lot more to fit into the global club.
And what have we done to stop this?
Fairy, we're not a sainted country. We've ignored plenty of attrocities throughout human history. We've contributed more than our fair share with the native americans and african slavery ourselves...as well as putting folks like Saddam, Osama, and various other dicators in power through US backing. We're rather fickle that way ;o)
We're certainly a good country, but we can do a lot more to fit into the global club.
I'd just like to add to what MayFan said and point out that a lot (not all) liberals supported the war on Kosovo back in 1999.
Slobadon Milosevic was no threat to us, was he? But the argument many members of the left used was that we needed to stop the atrocities that Milosevic was committing against his own people.
If you supported the war on Kosovo but you don't support the war on Iraq - WHY? Is it simply because Clinton ordered one and Bush ordered the other? Why do some people have to call Bush things like a tyrant when a real tyrant has been taken out of power?
Yeah, Bush isn't perfect but neither was Clinton, neither was Father Bush, or Reagan before him or Carter before him if you keep going back. The fact is that none of us is the president, none of us can make the decisions he has to make. All you can do is try and understand why he does them.
Contrary to popular belief he is not up there just pressing buttons and going, "Whee! Why don't we go to war? That sounds fun!"
Slobadon Milosevic was no threat to us, was he? But the argument many members of the left used was that we needed to stop the atrocities that Milosevic was committing against his own people.
If you supported the war on Kosovo but you don't support the war on Iraq - WHY? Is it simply because Clinton ordered one and Bush ordered the other? Why do some people have to call Bush things like a tyrant when a real tyrant has been taken out of power?
Yeah, Bush isn't perfect but neither was Clinton, neither was Father Bush, or Reagan before him or Carter before him if you keep going back. The fact is that none of us is the president, none of us can make the decisions he has to make. All you can do is try and understand why he does them.
Contrary to popular belief he is not up there just pressing buttons and going, "Whee! Why don't we go to war? That sounds fun!"
Freddie:
I think you're oversimplifying the issue. There are certainly those that are anti-war. Period. Can't do much to sway those folks.
A lot of what you call 'liberals' aren't so much against the war as they are against the intentions and the process that Bush took to get us into that war.
Kosovo was also much more multi-national support, which, alone, makes it drastically different than this war.
"All you can do is try and understand why he does them."
That's the key issue here. There's evidence that this Iraq war was planned well before 9-11. That's fine, but why? The single BIGGEST issue I have with this war is Bush tying it into 9-11 purely to persuade a portion of the american public. (Other issues include a lack of an exit strategy and a failing in Afghanistan).
"Contrary to popular belief he is not up there just pressing buttons and going, "Whee! Why don't we go to war? That sounds fun!""
Based on what? THAT is what we're all trying to figure out. When the VP is tied directly to the single largest military contactor in the world who gets the entire, uncontested contract for a war, you can't help but raise a LITTLE BIT of suspicion over motives.
There is NO DOUBT that Saddam was an evil tyrant. That said, he was an evil tyrant for some 30 yeasrs. There are many other evil tyrants and outright genocide going on in the world. WHY this war? WHY this country? WHY this timing? WHY no real exit strategy? WHY the alleged ties to 9-11? WHY didn't we find Osama? WHY can't we fix that damn problem in Israel first? Etc.
I think you're oversimplifying the issue. There are certainly those that are anti-war. Period. Can't do much to sway those folks.
A lot of what you call 'liberals' aren't so much against the war as they are against the intentions and the process that Bush took to get us into that war.
Kosovo was also much more multi-national support, which, alone, makes it drastically different than this war.
"All you can do is try and understand why he does them."
That's the key issue here. There's evidence that this Iraq war was planned well before 9-11. That's fine, but why? The single BIGGEST issue I have with this war is Bush tying it into 9-11 purely to persuade a portion of the american public. (Other issues include a lack of an exit strategy and a failing in Afghanistan).
"Contrary to popular belief he is not up there just pressing buttons and going, "Whee! Why don't we go to war? That sounds fun!""
Based on what? THAT is what we're all trying to figure out. When the VP is tied directly to the single largest military contactor in the world who gets the entire, uncontested contract for a war, you can't help but raise a LITTLE BIT of suspicion over motives.
There is NO DOUBT that Saddam was an evil tyrant. That said, he was an evil tyrant for some 30 yeasrs. There are many other evil tyrants and outright genocide going on in the world. WHY this war? WHY this country? WHY this timing? WHY no real exit strategy? WHY the alleged ties to 9-11? WHY didn't we find Osama? WHY can't we fix that damn problem in Israel first? Etc.
Osama's certainly not DUMB. He masterminded 9/11, he's not going to hide somewhere with "HERE'S OSAMA" in neon lights.
As far as Saddam, we should have taken him out thirty years ago as far as I'm concerned...
But that's just me...
As far as Saddam, we should have taken him out thirty years ago as far as I'm concerned...
But that's just me...
"Hopefully, and I mean hopefully, some of these crazies in the world will start thinking twice before they go and kill our friends and families."
That's not how terrorists work, MusicMan. Terrorists are not rational entities. You can't fight a war on terrorism. And let's not forget some of Osama's reasons for his acts...the fact that the US maintains a large presense in the Middle east. The very act of us invading Iraq is in many ways more fodder for the terrorist recruiters.
I'll continue reading the rest of the thread afterwards, but I couldn't help but notice this...I don't think I said that.
I would like to hereby dismiss and divert any argument aimed at the amount of people who have died in Iraq. Such information is irrelevant to debate. The argument is whether or not it was the right decision to make war on Iraq, if the decision is justified, so are the deaths; if the decision is proved fallacious, then the deaths are strikes against the Bush administration (but only then are they so). Until such a conclusion is established, the death toll in Iraq should not be used to promote any anti-war argument.
Check out this website -
http://home.earthlink.net/~robx/Bush/Bush.html
Just looking at this site immediately triggered my bullshit detector.
I loved how not only each and every point on that site was backed up with clear and obvious details, but there were also proven confirmations of every listed fact. The facts were backed with detailed examples and clearly proven full-truths. Every point of view was clearly explored. You could tell that there existed no bias at all. Every possible explanation was researched, and each and every one was mentioned.
I am merely attacking propaganda and poor argument. What I said here has no bearing on any who are against Bush, nor any who are for him.
I like articles like in the site above only if they are purely for the intentions of silly, non-serious jokes, as you would find on satiric news columns as The Onion. But when you are trying to seriously persuade people and "inform" them for an upcoming election, I can only look down upon you.
Sorry, Music Man...that wasn't you I quoted. I think it was MyFan. Apologise for the mix-up.
Yeah sorry lisser! fit in england means good looking like bob said. erm, i guess you would say he was spunky?! lol cute?
I think they should dress Bush up as a camel in heat and send him over there to work the locals.
I would like to hereby dismiss and divert any argument aimed at the amount of people who have died in Iraq. Such information is irrelevant to debate. The argument is whether or not it was the right decision to make war on Iraq, if the decision is justified, so are the deaths; if the decision is proved fallacious, then the deaths are strikes against the Bush administration (but only then are they so). Until such a conclusion is established, the death toll in Iraq should not be used to promote any anti-war argument.
Ah yeah, the ever-present compassion of a conservative: as long as the reason for death agrees with me, the deaths are therefore acceptable, no matter how many.