I hate to sound like a heartless bastard, But I think it's about damn time they let that poor woman die, As she SHOULD have 15 years ago. I know the family is sad, And that death is a terrible tragedy. HOWEVER, In my opinion it is criminal to keep someone in that state 'alive' for so long. Can you imagine knowing everything that is going on around you and not being able to do or say ANYTHING?! And that wasn't even the case with Teri! The parts of her brain that MADE her Teri are gone and have been for some time. It's good that they have finally let her go. And that's all I have to say on the subject.
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I understand the parents. I don't question their motives because it's not my business. I understand the husband and I don't question his motives, either. It's obvious that the fate of Terri is discussed worldwide because the family made it a public issue. Still, I think we should not take sides and continue the fight, now that the patient is dead.
What surprises me is that none of the American posters seems to be annoyed by the incredible lack of respect of American courts shown by the Bush family in this whole tragedy. We get a court rule we don't like? Let's make a state law to overrule the court. The new law is unconstitutional? Let's make a federal law. I cannot remember a similar breach of the basic rule that the law has to be applied and cannot be changed in favour of one side in a current court case. And it's the President who does not respect this basic rule of law.
How many judges ruled in favour of the husband? Are they all cynical murderers who do not protect an innocent life or did they apply the law of their country? How can peace be preserved in a democracy when court rules are not respected any longer and the parties get death threats after a court rule? It's a very severe disturbance of the inner peace of a country when legislative and executive overstep their rights because the President and his family have a certain religious belief and want to force their personal values on other people.
What surprises me is that none of the American posters seems to be annoyed by the incredible lack of respect of American courts shown by the Bush family in this whole tragedy. We get a court rule we don't like? Let's make a state law to overrule the court. The new law is unconstitutional? Let's make a federal law. I cannot remember a similar breach of the basic rule that the law has to be applied and cannot be changed in favour of one side in a current court case. And it's the President who does not respect this basic rule of law.
How many judges ruled in favour of the husband? Are they all cynical murderers who do not protect an innocent life or did they apply the law of their country? How can peace be preserved in a democracy when court rules are not respected any longer and the parties get death threats after a court rule? It's a very severe disturbance of the inner peace of a country when legislative and executive overstep their rights because the President and his family have a certain religious belief and want to force their personal values on other people.
There is not peace in this country.
I will put a new twist on this for now.....Michael Shiavo, Terri's husband, wouldn't even let her parents in to see her as she laid dying.....
Probably because he was afraid they'd try to give her water or food or something. I don't blame him, really.
And thank you Rip Van Winkle for saying what I was thinking; she died ages ago--her body only just now caught up.
It is far better to let murderers rot in jail than to than to stoke the American legal circus and stuff lawyer's pockets.
Doesn't it also cost money to keep someone in jail?
You shouldn't play god. Terri would've died a long time ago without the feeding tube. If you're so damn religious, then people should die a natural death, not perpetuate this grotesque masquerade of life when all that's there is flesh and bones with no mind or soul.
It's a very severe disturbance of the inner peace of a country when legislative and executive overstep their rights because the President and his family have a certain religious belief and want to force their personal values on other people.
Excellent posts.
Oliver, you and some other religious people here are obviously far removed from reality if you believe the majority of the content of that terrisfight website. Interesting how there was plenty of religious and emotionally-oriented stuff on the website, but only "convenient" scientific information.
She was dead for 15 years. Accept it. Read Thomas' post at the top of page two of this topic. That is the scientific truth.
I can't say anything else that hasn't already been said here. Of course it was a tragedy, and it was lose-lose. But 15 years? Far too long.
What surprises me is that none of the American posters seems to be annoyed by the incredible lack of respect of American courts shown by the Bush family
....
How can peace be preserved in a democracy when court rules are not respected any longer and the parties get death threats after a court rule? It's a very severe disturbance of the inner peace of a country when legislative and executive overstep their rights because the President and his family have a certain religious belief and want to force their personal values on other people.
A quick analogy:
During the Great Depression in the 1930s, Franklin Roosevelt introduced the New Deal, a governmental policy of several programs aimed at helping the American People rise up from poverty and starvation. The problem was that several of the programs overstepped their legal authority and the Supreme Court struck them down as unconstitutional. FDR, frustrated that his programs were being defeated by the Supreme Court, initiated a new plan that would increase the size of the court. With more members, who would all be appointed by FDR, the New Deal would proceed unencumbered since the majority of the Supreme Court would support the president. This was clearly a case of the executive branch overstepping its bounds and showing a lack of respect, even if its intentions were for the benefit of the public.
Now, FDR's Court Packing plan was ultimately defeated, but it shares many similarities with Bush's actions during the Schiavo case. American Democracy, as with most democracies, may overreact at times and attempt to change things in a very undemocratic manner. But eventually, we do "right the ship." For instance, the Patriot Act, a very contested and reactionary law passed following Sept 11, is now being reconsidered by Republicans and Democrats alike. Bush, De Lay, and others are simply reacting to their electorate and posturing for the voters.
Personally, I think the Schiavo case has been overblown by certain congressmen and the media, and all of this undemocratic rhetoric will come to naught.
Another thought:
Millions of Americans were aware of one person's death today, but how many of those millions cared equally much for the 4,000 that died of AIDS in Africa today?
Such self-righteous people and the media just make me want to vomit.
Millions of Americans were aware of one person's death today, but how many of those millions cared equally much for the 4,000 that died of AIDS in Africa today?
Such self-righteous people and the media just make me want to vomit.
I hate to sound like a heartless bastard, But I think it's about damn time they let that poor woman die, As she SHOULD have 15 years ago. I know the family is sad, And that death is a terrible tragedy. HOWEVER, In my opinion it is criminal to keep someone in that state 'alive' for so long. Can you imagine knowing everything that is going on around you and not being able to do or say ANYTHING?! And that wasn't even the case with Teri! The parts of her brain that MADE her Teri are gone and have been for some time. It's good that they have finally let her go. And that's all I have to say on the subject.
This sums up my feelings exactly. Very well said, Dan.
EDIT: and Sir GH, very well put.
Ok Michael Allred, I see you are the typicall guy that always has to have the last word....I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't really Michael Schiavo after what I've read in your posts....
A mature and reasonable response. Just what I expected.
I have been following the case, here in Canada, and would like to add my own comments, and replies as well to posts here first.
They don't even report about Canada, even though we share like half the fucking north america continent with them, and are literally attached neighbours (by land).
If they DO report about us, it's never anything positive that ALL Americans will hear about (you FOX News viewers know damn well what I'm talking about
Those countries need questioning of HOW they were stupid enough to elect those dumbarses they call "presidents" (no offense to Americans; but you know what I'm also talking about)[/QUOTE]
While I myself support the death penalty for the most deserving of criminals (and am somewhat disappointed now that the US Courts have outlawed death penalties for teenagers, which means a lot of criminal murderers will soon be back out on the streets - it doesn't take a genius to figure out why), and am ashamed that Canada no longer has such a law (for many years now), I also at the same time cannot support withdrawing treatments that are beneficial to one's health and life, especially those whose responses to outside settings are very limited (to sum it up in one inconsistent line).
I myself detest the Islamic countries listed above as well, and that gives me a very bad impression of all Middle Eastern countries under Islamic rule (except the Palestinians, if it counts). I think Islamic Fundamentalists are some of the most fucked up people in the world, IMO. IMO Quebec also has some of the most fucked up people too, from this Canadian's view. It's like those Quebeckers are in their own world, so to speak (though that doesn't say much).
As to the Americans, I don't detest the American people themselves. I may call the 50% of the country that re-elected Bush "idiots", or "stupid", but I think that the American gov't members themselves (and their unfair political and "law" system) are all a bunch of idiots who make all Americans seem like they're all the same (and for a country with a "melting pot" culture, that doesn't quite help matters either).
Hence the various stereotypes that we're all familiar with worldwide.
I think the American gov't is to blame for almost all the problems people have with the United States, but I can say the same thing about Canada too, cos both the former and current Prime Ministers, Jean Chretien and Paul Martin respectively, are both idiots as well. I'm surprised myself that the Liberals, who Paul leads, won the last election after the huge Sponsorship scandal that they're still in hot water for.
Paul Martin fucked up a lot of things for us Canadians lately. For one, as far as I know, he did not
1. Does the US media know there is a "rest of the world" to report about?
They don't even report about Canada, even though we share like half the fucking north america continent with them, and are literally attached neighbours (by land).
If they DO report about us, it's never anything positive that ALL Americans will hear about (you FOX News viewers know damn well what I'm talking about
2. Any country whose President bangs on about the right to life, and the "strong protecting the weak" while simultaneously allowing the mentally infirm to be executed deserves some serious questioning of its laws...
Those countries need questioning of HOW they were stupid enough to elect those dumbarses they call "presidents" (no offense to Americans; but you know what I'm also talking about)[/QUOTE]
3. Withdrawing treatment is allowed in many countries. Killing people isn't (except some rather countries that think it's ok to execute criminals). If you don't like such laws, ask your politicians to change them
While I myself support the death penalty for the most deserving of criminals (and am somewhat disappointed now that the US Courts have outlawed death penalties for teenagers, which means a lot of criminal murderers will soon be back out on the streets - it doesn't take a genius to figure out why), and am ashamed that Canada no longer has such a law (for many years now), I also at the same time cannot support withdrawing treatments that are beneficial to one's health and life, especially those whose responses to outside settings are very limited (to sum it up in one inconsistent line).
A) No, I am not prejudiced against Americans, I just feel extremely let down by nearly all hypocrit governments that have destroyed an otherwise great country. The US is by far not the only country I detest for that. I detest the Israëli government, Saoudi Arabia's corrupt system, Iran's oppressive rule, Indonesia's pittiful excuse for a democracy, Turkey's human rights and political freedom, The Netherlands' (YES, my own country) government which refuses to change it's governing which well over 80% of the population opposes, etc.
I myself detest the Islamic countries listed above as well, and that gives me a very bad impression of all Middle Eastern countries under Islamic rule (except the Palestinians, if it counts). I think Islamic Fundamentalists are some of the most fucked up people in the world, IMO. IMO Quebec also has some of the most fucked up people too, from this Canadian's view. It's like those Quebeckers are in their own world, so to speak (though that doesn't say much).
As to the Americans, I don't detest the American people themselves. I may call the 50% of the country that re-elected Bush "idiots", or "stupid", but I think that the American gov't members themselves (and their unfair political and "law" system) are all a bunch of idiots who make all Americans seem like they're all the same (and for a country with a "melting pot" culture, that doesn't quite help matters either).
Hence the various stereotypes that we're all familiar with worldwide.
I think the American gov't is to blame for almost all the problems people have with the United States, but I can say the same thing about Canada too, cos both the former and current Prime Ministers, Jean Chretien and Paul Martin respectively, are both idiots as well. I'm surprised myself that the Liberals, who Paul leads, won the last election after the huge Sponsorship scandal that they're still in hot water for.
Paul Martin fucked up a lot of things for us Canadians lately. For one, as far as I know, he did not
The bad part about sentencing some to life in prison instead of receiving the death penalty is that tax payer's money is being spent on keeping this bastard alive and with a certain degree of benefits.
I agree that not everybody sentenced to death is guilty, but for those who are 100% clearly guilty of their charges sure deserve to be killed.
Guitar Hero also commented on the cost to house a murderer for life.
It is far cheaper to keep a murderer in jail for life, than it is to pay for the appeals and counter appeals, the call to the governer and assorted legal gymnastics. Plus, the courts have a history of convicting the wrong person who is later cleared by DNA testing.
NOTE: I am posting these quotes and my replies/comments AS I READ the posts, so forgive me if I am a bit behind.
I knew those things too, and that's partly because of our free press here in Canada. The Americans' "press" media on the other hand only gives the Americans what the press (or powers of influence) wants them to believe.
I knew that Terri wasn't completely "vegetative", and that she was able to laugh, and respond to things (but not in a direct verbal way at the same time, so to speak), and apparently she even tried to make speech.
I don't personally believe for one second that she was 100% non-respondant to outside happenings. She may have never been able to give a direct sign that she was completely aware of the happenings around her, but at the same time she certainly didn't ignore them, if you can understand what I am saying.
I don't think they were being selfish, if you ask me. I think the husband is to blame for the whole situation.
It's true that he could have at least tried to divorce her, but there may be a possibility something in the American's much-flawed law system prevents people from divorcing their brain-damaged significant others, because they can't get a direct approval from the brain-damaged or disabled individual in question.
That's what I think; correct me if I am wrong on this.
I know I certainly wouldn't want my wife (if I had one) divorcing me if I were to be put into a persistent vegetative state. I would give her approval to be with someone else of course beforehand IF I were to be in such a situation where I cannot respond to outside happenings (bar the possibility of getting divorced beforehand; THAT would be a different situation).
Either way, I'd prefer to be kept alive myself, because I don't believe in euthenasia (csp?) unless it's for people who are actually feeling pain and will not live long but at the same time are having a long time in dying, rather than just dying quickly.
I apologize if this may seem insensitive, as I do not like discussing the matters of euthenasia myself.
But anyways, I personally believe Terri's husband was just in it for the money of course. And he's going to need it too, cos I personally don't see anyone wanting to hire him for any future jobs, cos every fucking American WILL know who this guy is for quite a while. That's just my opinion, so please don't jump on my back for that one.
No comment(s).
Terri was NOT brain dead. She was NOT in a coma. She was NOT in a “persistent vegetative state.” And she was not on ANY life-support system.
She merely received food and liquid through a gastro feeding tube because her brain injury prevented her from being able to swallow. In other words, Terri depended on food and water to stay alive—just like you and me!
Terri could breathe for herself. She was not on a ventilator. Her vital organs were working fine, which means she was not hooked up to a machine. Furthermore, she was not dying or being “kept alive” by artificial means. She did not have a terminal disease, and she was able to feel pain when she starved to death.
How Could Someone Do All This
To Another Human Being?!?
I knew those things too, and that's partly because of our free press here in Canada. The Americans' "press" media on the other hand only gives the Americans what the press (or powers of influence) wants them to believe.
I knew that Terri wasn't completely "vegetative", and that she was able to laugh, and respond to things (but not in a direct verbal way at the same time, so to speak), and apparently she even tried to make speech.
I don't personally believe for one second that she was 100% non-respondant to outside happenings. She may have never been able to give a direct sign that she was completely aware of the happenings around her, but at the same time she certainly didn't ignore them, if you can understand what I am saying.
My personal opinion is that Terri's parents were selfish. Their daughter was dead for all intents and purpose. They wanted her around so that they would feel better, regardless of what their daughter wanted.
I don't think they were being selfish, if you ask me. I think the husband is to blame for the whole situation.
It's true that he could have at least tried to divorce her, but there may be a possibility something in the American's much-flawed law system prevents people from divorcing their brain-damaged significant others, because they can't get a direct approval from the brain-damaged or disabled individual in question.
That's what I think; correct me if I am wrong on this.
I know I certainly wouldn't want my wife (if I had one) divorcing me if I were to be put into a persistent vegetative state. I would give her approval to be with someone else of course beforehand IF I were to be in such a situation where I cannot respond to outside happenings (bar the possibility of getting divorced beforehand; THAT would be a different situation).
Either way, I'd prefer to be kept alive myself, because I don't believe in euthenasia (csp?) unless it's for people who are actually feeling pain and will not live long but at the same time are having a long time in dying, rather than just dying quickly.
I apologize if this may seem insensitive, as I do not like discussing the matters of euthenasia myself.
But anyways, I personally believe Terri's husband was just in it for the money of course. And he's going to need it too, cos I personally don't see anyone wanting to hire him for any future jobs, cos every fucking American WILL know who this guy is for quite a while. That's just my opinion, so please don't jump on my back for that one.
Oh, and I am sure that the "grieving" husband went merrily home to his girlfriend and their 2 children - how ironic, Terri was in fertility counseling and Michael got a settlement from that malpractice suit when that doctor did not detect the chemical inbalance from the eating disorder she was allegedly suffering from. Well, Michael has his kids now doesn't he?
No comment(s).
I will put a new twist on this for now.....Michael Shiavo, Terri's husband, wouldn't even let her parents in to see her as she laid dying.....what a creep - and I thought my ex was heartless. This really makes me wonder what that guy is hiding....
It wasn't her husband who wouldn't let her parents see her. It was the medical staff at the hospital's decision.
Really. I've read like 5 reports on her death, and the only thing they mentioned about the staff and the family members is that apparently Terri's brother was asked to leave because of his behaviour, 10 minutes before Terri's unjust death.
Terri's husband is a cold-blooded murderer, plain and simple.
ADDITIONAL NOTE: To correct myself, it turns out that Mr. Schiavo REFUSED to divorce her, so it seems that he WOULD have been able to divorce her after all. Ah, but NOOOOOOO, the cold-blooded shark just HAD to go for the fucking money, cos HE IS A FUCKING GREEDY BASTARD WHO CARES NOTHING ABOUT THE LIVES OF HIS *FUCKING FAMILY MEMBERS*!!!
LET'S ALL BEAT UP HIS CURRENT LOVER SO THAT SHE CAN BE "VEGETATIVE" HERSELF, AND SEE HOW HE DEALS WITH IT!!!!!
How do you know that she did indeed say what her husband claims is her wish in this situation as fact??
There's no concrete proof. It's his word and his word only.
It's a shame there was no last will made by Terri before her accident
There's no concrete proof. It's his word and his word only.
It's a shame there was no last will made by Terri before her accident
I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be her horrible husband, TQ