the ettiquette of trading / requesting

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djaef 03 April 2005 01:39 · Member since July 2004

This quote from Lord Dennis got me thinking, and I was wondering where the majority of people stood regarding this issue.

Lord Dennis<h6>Sacret wrote:
why are all these people now a day asking wether others can send stuff for free through the internet. why don't they try to buy it from a trader or trade it with him. The mentellaty of gettign bootlegs is getting week.

The whole principle of the Queen hub(s) is that people can share their Queen collections with others. For free! No burning cds, no money changing hands, no sending stuff in the mail and hoping it'll arrive (or that its arrival is acknowledged), no secret clubs or traders who hold stuff back for financial gain... just free trading amongst Queen fans.

Now I'm not sure where I stand regarding rare stuff. One thing is to collect rare officially released product. Good on you if that's what turns you on, and you have a fat enough wallet to do it.
But collecting mp3s or flac files or whatever of concerts and rare demos etc, why would you not want to share them. Gaining financially off them is called bootlegging and it is frowned upon by Queen themselves. I'm sure Queen would much prefer if concerts were freely traded by individuals than fans paying money to someone who had recorded a concert and sold it.

I think the old fashioned form of trading (cd-r swap) is going the way of the dinosaur, and I for one don't understand the mentality behind keeping back a bootleg from others. Sure, you might have paid money for it at one time, but is it a virtue to then want others to pay money to get it? I don't condone the sharing of officially available albums (I do draw a line at rarer versions and demos etc) but as for bootlegs, let them be free. Liberate them from the bootleggers that's what I say.

I'd like to hear other points of view. What is so wrong with requesting stuff? I recently gave away 3 cds of queen concerts (I even paid the postage), and it gave me a good feeling that they were going to give someone else pleasure. So I don't get the whole hoarding mentality.

Fire away!

S

Saint Jiub 03 April 2005 03:09 · Member since July 2001

Nowadays, except for one of a kind rare items, the vast majority of Queen bootlegs are shared. There is a very small minority of items only available in the trading community (and most of these can hardly be thought of necessities when similar bootleg concerts exist).

The reason for the backlash is probably results from posters who mostly post begging topics, but appear to never share anything themselves.

I

inu-liger 03 April 2005 03:13 · Member since July 2001

It'd be nice if those private collectors would let available the stuff that's either extremely rare or virtually unavailable at the moment.

Eg. Hangman acetate

S

Saint Jiub 03 April 2005 03:20 · Member since July 2001

Someone paid hundreds of dollars for that item.

Dark - Are you prepared to throw away hundreds of dollars of your own money?

Why should he throw his money away? Why don't you make him an offer? Maybe he will sell it to you, and then you can upload it.

There are plenty of live versions of Hangman available, so having an mp3 of a studio version should not be a life or death situation.

D

djaef 03 April 2005 04:03 · Member since July 2004

Rip Van Winkle wrote:

The reason for the backlash is probably results from posters who mostly post begging topics, but appear to never share anything themselves.

And fair enough too. I'm all for sharing in both directions.

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Someone paid hundreds of dollars for that item.

Dark - Are you prepared to throw away hundreds of dollars of your own money?

Why should he throw his money away? Why don't you make him an offer? Maybe he will sell it to you, and then you can upload it.

There are plenty of live versions of Hangman available, so having an mp3 of a studio version should not be a life or death situation.

But isn't it the acetate itself that is worth the money? Not the song. Even if everyone has an mp3 of it (which in itself is worthless) the original acetate is still worth a lot of money. That's the way I understand it anyway. I don't see how digital versions of anything bring the value down of real product. Like I mean, there are untold millions of copies of Bohemian Rhapsody, but in no way does that fact lower the value of the very rare blue single.

B

brENsKi 03 April 2005 05:57 · Member since June 2003

djaef wrote:

But isn't it the acetate itself that is worth the money? Not the song. Even if everyone has an mp3 of it (which in itself is worthless) the original acetate is still worth a lot of money. That's the way I understand it anyway. I don't see how digital versions of anything bring the value down of real product. Like I mean, there are untold millions of copies of Bohemian Rhapsody, but in no way does that fact lower the value of the very rare blue single.

i agree with your point - to an extent. the acetate is the rarity and as such the item that holds any value. but the recording itself also has a marketable value

if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations?

you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers:

"Queen - Early Jewels"

1. silver salmon
2. mad the swine
3. polar bear
4. de lane lea demos
5. larry lurex x2
6. left hand marriage x3
7. wreckage x3
8. ibex x9
9. hangman - rare studio recording

fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that
the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat

why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set?

one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?

B

bitesthedust 03 April 2005 06:19 · Member since January 2002

Brenski wrote:

if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations?

you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers:

"Queen - Early Jewels"

1. silver salmon
2. mad the swine
3. polar bear
4. de lane lea demos
5. larry lurex x2
6. left hand marriage x3
7. wreckage x3
8. ibex x9
9. hangman - rare studio recording

fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that
the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat

why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set?

one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?

exactly....so when the Special Edition cd's come along, a lot of people (myself included) are likely to already have the bonus material. There isn't anything to stop people releasing bootleg compliations and selling them at record fairs; having been to a few in the east of england I've come across "rare" queen cds - containing the smile tracks, De Lane Lea demos, early live performances etc as well as dvds of live shows - some complete, some not.

B

bitesthedust 03 April 2005 06:22 · Member since January 2002

bitesthedust wrote:
Brenski wrote:

if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations?

you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers:

"Queen - Early Jewels"

1. silver salmon
2. mad the swine
3. polar bear
4. de lane lea demos
5. larry lurex x2
6. left hand marriage x3
7. wreckage x3
8. ibex x9
9. hangman - rare studio recording

fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that
the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat

why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set?

one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?


exactly....so when the Special Edition cd's come along, a lot of people (myself included) are likely to already have the bonus material. There isn't anything to stop people releasing bootleg compliations and selling them at record fairs; having been to a few in the east of england I've come across "rare" queen cds - containing the smile tracks, De Lane Lea demos, early live performances etc as well as dvds of live shows - some complete, some not. I've taken my bootleg trading site off the 'net now as there's not the interest anymore...people are requesting shows to uploaded on yousendit.com or rapidshare. There's always the Queenhouse FTP site too.

B

bitesthedust 03 April 2005 06:23 · Member since January 2002

B

brENsKi 03 April 2005 06:35 · Member since June 2003

but there are zillions of people out there who either don't have access to the net, or don't have a broadband connection

who will happily pay £10 for a disc that has all the early stuff on - otherwise leggers
wouldn't be making a living at cd/record fairs.
and these people would happily buy another "early compilation" if it had studio Hangman on

so as i said - once this version is "in the wild" then it is sellable at cd fairs

which again, begs the question: why don't Queen release an "early jewels cd" with hangman on/ this would at least ensure those that wanted to buy it - actually gave the money to queen productions

U

Unknown 03 April 2005 06:42

well i will tell you something, the only reason i was beggin so much recently is becos i have next to NOTHIN! nowt of any intrest, so if i got hold of some rare items off people i might be able to start sharing and tradin abit more, also increasin the size of my collection, but beco u can get bugga all in the north of england and i cant get stuff off the net like amazon, it limits to wot i can do, i cant buy off the net, i cant use bittorrents, cant access the hub cos of my size of my collection, otherwise its hopeless me even tryin to join in,

(p.s, i apologies for my actions yesterday 2nd April 2005, well out of order and i will try not to beg as much in future)

B

brENsKi 03 April 2005 07:12 · Member since June 2003

to get started sharing -

1. you need to BUY some boots or rarities cds (not official stuff)
2. then use audiograbber - to mp3 em to your hardrive
3. download DC++ and install
4. set your shared drive
5. start sharing - and increasing your own collection

finally - have YOU actually tried hunting around the web for bootlegs to buy? - google - queen bootlegs and see - their are hundreds of sites

the following do trades

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/je.holewijn/what_we_can_offer/what_we_can_offer.htm

http://www.queenonstage.com/index.htm
http://www.queenboots.com/Queenboots/f_news.htm

U

Unknown 03 April 2005 07:39

yeh i have but im not allowed to buy off the net, reasons are
1-im only 17 and have no cash
2-my mam and dad never let me buy anything off the net!

So im alittle stuck unfortunatly

thanks for helpin!

Y

YourValentine 03 April 2005 07:48 · Member since July 2001

Queenzone has a tradition of sharing. There was the ftp server, the hub was always supported by Queenzone (look up the FAQ), now the BitTorrent project. Let's not forget the bootleg trees started by Zeni and Rip van Winkle.

What annoys me is that people who have a quick connection and chat all day on MSN are too lazy to learn how to use a BitTorrent client and download the offered shares. I am really sick of people posting requests here: please send the 2 GB to [email protected]. It does not work that way and it alienates the people who are willing to share their material.

I am not talking about people who have slow internet connection or pay per minute. Or people who have difficulties understanding the help texts because they don't speak English.

Maybe it's our own fault that we "raised" this generation of beggars with our own generosity. It does not need a university degree to collect 2 Gb of inofficial Queen material in order to join the hub. Please read the FAQ in the QZ questions and answers.

And to even discuss that people should freely give away rare tracks they paid thousands of pounds for, ist just ridiculous. Why should anybody do this? If some day Queen Productions dip into their pockets and buy such rare stuff from collectors and publish it we will all be able to buy them. As long as it does not happen, the collectors in question would be stupid to make their precious collection public domain. I would not do it if I owned such a rare recording.

And the myth of the secret elite club of traders - that's just stupid. Most traders have been collecting for years, spending a lot of time and money to get what they have - you all can do that if you want. If you are not willing to spend that much time and money. you won't have all the available recordings, it's that easy.

P

popy 03 April 2005 08:27 · Member since August 2003

as i sayd on other topic...

why can't we ask?we are not prohibited... if i ask,i don't see anything wrong.If i'm starting collecting,what will i do?searching for bootlegs,and searching means asking.

years ago people still were paying money to thoose who sold bootlegs,ok...in this days it's just searching on emule,kazaa or others to find what we want.

get over it,paying for bootlegs in this days?thoose days are long gone...things chance...

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