the ettiquette of trading / requesting

taylorgaga (Begg): "whereabouts on Brianmay.com is these downloads? help very much appreciated!"

Try the OLD BrianMay.com site. Try Google. If you are really stuck try and re-arrange the words "Lilly" and "Time".

Also - try visiting your nearest CD shop first!

They shouldn't be hard to find. You do have a brain?

I used the search button on this site and searched on "download link". spent 5 to ten minutes checking out the topics and found this:

http://allofqueen.on.ufanet.ru/media.html

It has 800 MB available for download.

You could dig a little deeper than I did and find more.

Evidently the downloads at BrianMay.com were eliminated when the site was redesigned in the last few months. I downloaded the songs last December.

Also, you SHOULD give the hub and bitorrents another chance.

I have an older computer and I had problems with my computer crashing when I left it on overnight. By turning off all unnecessary programs (when not in use) I have virtually eliminated crashes. Besides - crashes are not the end of the world.

Learn to rely on yourself amd stop playing the helpless card.

John S Stuart wrote:

As for the comment that an MP3 does not detract from the value of the acetate, while this may hold true of prints of the Mona Lisa, it does not hold true for music because if the music itself is unreleased or unheard - this undoubtedly adds to the value of the disc (or cassette tape - or whatever).

Yep. OK, fair comment.

YourValentine wrote:

It does not need a university degree to collect 2 Gb of inofficial Queen material in order to join the hub.

Especially true now there is a new Queen hub with a 0GB entry point, so that EVERYONE can join and begin to share.

YourValentine wrote:

And to even discuss that people should freely give away rare tracks they paid thousands of pounds for, ist just ridiculous.

I don't believe this discussion is ridiculous. I was merely asking a question. I am not a trader, and so I ask for insight into how the mind of a trader works. There is no need to call the discussion ridiculous.

YourValentine wrote:

And the myth of the secret elite club of traders - that's just stupid.

Ridiculous, stupid... If you don't want to participate in this discussion, fine. There's no need to be aggressive and arrogant. I'm not even sure whose comment you are referring to. All I wrote was "no secret clubs". Now if you don't acknowledge that there are "networks" that are to all intents and purposes "secret" (ie. the vast majority no nothing about them and are outside the group) within the world of Queen trading, then we have nothing further to discuss...

Well, I have been discussing this subject for years. And I call it ridiculous when people ask for a free copy of a precious unreleased rare item - you would not ask a stranger in real life to share his property with you, would you? And I call it stupid to describe the trader community as a secret circle or something. A lot of traders I know are in the hub and they have websites, there is nothing secret about their collection. Not all of them trade CD for CD per snail mail, many trade by ftp or hub.

If the truth makes me arrogant and aggressive, so be it. Then I have nothing to discuss with you, but don't give this "if you can't handle it, don't discuss" attitude - I know what I am talking about

YV, all I ask is not to call people (well me, in particular) ridiculous or stupid. I appreciate you have been doing this for far longer than I have and I really respect your knowledge and point of view. But you are being harsh and disrepectful when it's simply not called for.

Here is what you wrote:

YourValentine wrote:

And to even discuss that people should freely give away rare tracks they paid thousands of pounds for, ist just ridiculous. Why should anybody do this? If some day Queen Productions dip into their pockets and buy such rare stuff from collectors and publish it we will all be able to buy them. As long as it does not happen, the collectors in question would be stupid to make their precious collection public domain. I would not do it if I owned such a rare recording.

And the myth of the secret elite club of traders - that's just stupid. Most traders have been collecting for years, spending a lot of time and money to get what they have - you all can do that if you want. If you are not willing to spend that much time and money. you won't have all the available recordings, it's that easy.

and this is my original post. Please tell me where I ask anyone to part with anything precious or where I "describe the trader community as a secret circle or something". WITHIN the trading community there are groups which trade amongst themselves - that was my only point.

djaef wrote:

The whole principle of the Queen hub(s) is that people can share their Queen collections with others. For free! No burning cds, no money changing hands, no sending stuff in the mail and hoping it'll arrive (or that its arrival is acknowledged), no secret clubs or traders who hold stuff back for financial gain... just free trading amongst Queen fans.

Now I'm not sure where I stand regarding rare stuff. One thing is to collect rare officially released product. Good on you if that's what turns you on, and you have a fat enough wallet to do it.
But collecting mp3s or flac files or whatever of concerts and rare demos etc, why would you not want to share them. Gaining financially off them is called bootlegging and it is frowned upon by Queen themselves. I'm sure Queen would much prefer if concerts were freely traded by individuals than fans paying money to someone who had recorded a concert and sold it.

I think the old fashioned form of trading (cd-r swap) is going the way of the dinosaur, and I for one don't understand the mentality behind keeping back a bootleg from others. Sure, you might have paid money for it at one time, but is it a virtue to then want others to pay money to get it? I don't condone the sharing of officially available albums (I do draw a line at rarer versions and demos etc) but as for bootlegs, let them be free. Liberate them from the bootleggers that's what I say.

I'd like to hear other points of view. What is so wrong with requesting stuff? I recently gave away 3 cds of queen concerts (I even paid the postage), and it gave me a good feeling that they were going to give someone else pleasure. So I don't get the whole hoarding mentality.

Fire away!

YourValentine wrote:

If the truth makes me arrogant and aggressive, so be it. Then I have nothing to discuss with you, but don't give this "if you can't handle it, don't discuss" attitude - I know what I am talking about

YV, there is no ONE TRUTH. You might know what you are talking about, but that does not make yours the sole valid perspective in the universe OK?

I'm willing to discuss all day long.... I just like to be treated with respect.

edited: the user I was referring to is banned from Queenzone

YourValentine wrote:

Okay, what I understand from your post you re-encode mpg files on DVD and pretend they are DVD quality - then you sell them to other fans.

How low is that?

That's exactly what they're doing. See the thread called "The Ultimate Box Set." They even have the balls to solicit sales on this site. This is just another extension of the entitlement mentality - "I spent a lot of time on this, so I'm entitled to make some money." Also, "I'm entitled to use this forum any way I choose, even if the owner of the site doesn't want it used for illegal purposes."

I'll tell you what, I spent years building a Lou Reed live recordings collection that now includes over 250 shows, a Bowie collection that now includes over 150 shows, and a Zappa collection that now includes over 100 shows. I also have hundreds of other shows by dozens of artists. I stopped trying to collect Queen shows for years because I was tired of receiving the same mislabelled shows over and over again from casual fans (not their fault, they'd been duped). Then, along came Whitemanadmin on Queenzone with many lossless offerings. Wonderful! Since I didn't have anything Queen-related to upload as a way of saying thanks, how did I show my appreciation? Once I finished downloading, I seeded back for as long as I could in order to help others.

I haven't seen many new torrents lately, and I can't say that I'm surprised. If this were a Lou Reed site, I don't think I'd be rushing to share my collection when some of the members are so disrespectful as to have the audacity to sell boots on the same site where they are shared. Too bad they have to ruin it for everyone else.

Thanks for pointing this out for me, I did not see the thread before.

Lord Dennis: I think the point is - that if you have received audio or video for free (or very little) - then it becomes morally unethical to SELL that on - regardless of what you have done to it.

@ djaef: I did not call you or anyone else stupid or ridiculous. I call certain discussions stupid and ridiculous. My post was not even aimed at you, but you felt entitled to insult me.

YourValentine wrote:

@ djaef: I did not call you or anyone else stupid or ridiculous. I call certain discussions stupid and ridiculous. My post was not even aimed at you, but you felt entitled to insult me.

As I have already apologised to you twice (in private chat on the hub) in the case that I misunderstood and that that the comments in your thread were not directed at me, and you still seem to choose to be offended, there's nothing more I can do.

I've re-read the thread, and I think you'll find that the comment you made about talk of secret clubs or whatever can only be referring to my comments (taken out of context and highly embelleshed). I see now you were probably refrring to Inusha with the ridiculous comment, but as I said to you on the hub, maybe you should be more clear exactly who you are talking to when you start calling people stupid and ridiculous.

If you'd like to forget about the whole incident as a misunderstanding, I'll gladly go along with that. If you want to continue being offended and blameless, that's also your perogative.

Now, can we continue the discussion?

It appears to me that there is not much concensus regardging the "proper" way to trade. Some people call anyone who wants anything a leech,others seem not to have a problem with it. Same for the bootleggers. They justify their wares by saying they are improving it, others call tem all sorts of names.

I suppose it shouldn't be surprising. The world's like that isn't it. No agreement anywhere... I don't have any answers or even a firm viewpoint yet. I just react to what I see. Like the guy who asks for a few Roger solo tracks. Everyone blasts him and calls him terrible names, yet it turns out he has the albums, just not digital copies of the songs. The same goes for me actually. I have Roger's solo stuff on casette, so I downloaded the lot of them digitally instead of buying the cds again. Does that make me a scumbag leech? Hmmm. Interesting problems.

John S Stuart wrote:

Inu Yasha: "It'd be nice if those private collectors would let available the stuff that's either extremely rare or virtually unavailable at the moment... Eg. Hangman acetate"

This sort of comment really pisses me off.

First: What have YOU shared? "Teo Torriate" and Kerry Ellis "No One But You" OFFICIAL releases. Hardly anything spectacular! As far as I see, I own NO one any favours - especially you Dark.

1) I've shared non-official material recently, and still am (see NOBY topic)

2) The Kerry Ellis download was meant to be FREE in the first place, as Brian PROMISED. QP obviously went and fucked it up (intentionally??)
Honestly, can you ever expect anything good from QP or QOL? I think not. Those bastards are very unreliable when it comes to their promises.

Second: Whatever I have in my collection, as YV has already stated, is the result of "Indiana Jones" type digging - and are the results of a lot of research and hard work. For those who envy - get off your butt and do the same.

I don't deny those. In fact I'm amazed that, even with only a little bit of your collection list leaked out, that you have what you say you have because of your research and what-not.

As for the comment that an MP3 does not detract from the value of the acetate, while this may hold true of prints of the Mona Lisa, it does not hold true for music because if the music itself is unreleased or unheard - this undoubtedly adds to the value of the disc (or cassette tape - or whatever).

Didn't you also say that MP3's are just highly compressed and do not fully reproduce the sounds well enough, to that effect.
If that's the case, wouldn't MP3-only sources bring down the value less than if a pure CD-quality copy was released? Just curious...

But my main beef is not Hangman - or free MP3's - it is both ATTITUDE and leeching. We have created an ATTITUDE of "I want", "I deserve" and worse still - "I leech".

I agree with you on that one. Even though I'm known for WANTING songs, I do not go publicly asking for those songs as many times as these buggers (especially taylorbegg or whatshisname) do. I think they're ruining it for quite a few of us other fans and collectors.

If anything, I've shared quite a handful of audio-related material way more often than requesting songs.

But that's just me.


And I agree with those people who say to those buggers that they should go buy the official material instead of begging for a free but illegal MP3 copy.

I don't condone officially available material (except for the Kerry Ellis song - IMO that's an exception that should be) being shared online either. The only thing I have shared that would be considered officially available on CD would be the Teo Torriatte HD Mix 2005 version, and I learned from that experience how nasty a few people can be with those types of downloads.

Not so long ago Brenski very kindly offered a DVD with a shitload of MP3's of concerts, B sides, BBC sessions and other stuff to whoever contacted him first. I was fortunate to get in there and bag it.

My first act was to thank Brenski for his generosity. My second was to ask Martin for the e-mail addresses of the next three people that contacted him. I immediately got in touch with them, made three copies and sent them out.

Result: Four very happy people as a result of Brenski's unsolicited and generous offer.

it works though! no complaints from that approach!