John I totally agree with you. I've said this before in other threads. It's this political correctness that is destroying us. We are labeled as racists if we dare say that we are fucking angry.
Sure Muslims are not all alike. I think this is an overused statement which everyone in their right mind agrees with. But if my neighbor had 10 children and 8 are good and 2 are evil, wouldn't I try to defend myself from the 2 just because the other 8 are good???
We sure have flaws but it's high time we stop criticizing our own culture. This is the weapon they're using against us. Our political correctness.
I love the Tibetans, and I sympathize greatly with their cause. I sponsor a Tibetan child in India for her education, and help the Tibetan community near me as I can. But I don't agree with their mentality. They're the biggest example of turning the other cheek, and of how this is gradually but swiftly causing their disappearance from the world as a race and as a State.
I don't want to end up like that... I want to show tolerance to those who deserve it, but no tolerance for those who hurt my people, or who dare interfere with my way of life.
Fairy
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"I'm not surprised this has happened, it is been coming ever since we got involved in America's war with Afghanistan and Iraq.
This is the problem. Many think this is happening because of the engagements there. The truth is that on Sept 10th 2001 we were all minding our own business, going our own ways, partying, studying, working, fucking...And there come 4 of our aircrafts designed to travel for work or pleasure, used as bombs to kill civilians (not to kill our leaders).
So the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are NOT what triggered this. They are a result. Clear?
And what's the difference between those American military interventions and the one that freed the world from Hitler?
I use the term "our" though I'm not American. I'm Italian, but any atack to the Western world is an atack to my own world. I'm proud my President has joined the Americans in this attempt to free the world from these new Hitlers.
Don't you people think that the arrogance of Bush is feed for the terrorists??... You're right, 911 triggered this but do we have to react like this?? Like I said before on this board, it's gonna be like the Middle East. You bomb me?? Ok, than I'll bomb you. Something like this will never end.
You guys wanna know how many innocent people have been "accidentally" killed by coallition forces just in order to fight terrorism?
You must be living in a fantasy world if you think that people who have lost their homes and their loved ones will calmly understand that it's all done for the sake of fighting terrorism. But turns out to be that we have terrorists on both sides.
The problem is that here in the West we call our own form of terrorism by a much nicer name... RETALIATION.
You must be living in a fantasy world if you think that people who have lost their homes and their loved ones will calmly understand that it's all done for the sake of fighting terrorism. But turns out to be that we have terrorists on both sides.
The problem is that here in the West we call our own form of terrorism by a much nicer name... RETALIATION.
Fairy Wrote:
''If he had lived in Iraq, Freddie would have been tortured just because he was a gayman. I'm sure he knew that, and knew better than to criticize the culture that gave him fame.''
''If he had lived in Iraq, Freddie would have been tortured just because he was a gayman. I'm sure he knew that, and knew better than to criticize the culture that gave him fame.''
Fairy, so true. I also have read several interviews with Freddie where he also said he did NOT like Zanzibar. That it was a poor, 3rd world type, dirty nation of squalor and Freddie ADORED good old capitalistic, but SAFE, Tolerant England.
And yes, Freddie's ancestry was from Iran, where it is against the law and punisahable by law to be Gay. Most of these 3rd world nations are so backward, barbaric...not by my standards of western world teachings...but by the standards of VALUE FOR HUMAN LIFE.
David Bowie's wife, the African model, Iman, has done TONS of awareness campaigns, especially here in the USA, on shows like Oprah, about how in most Africans nations, young girls and women are regularly raped, molested, tortured, beaten, and...MAIMED by their own fathers, husbands, etc...and that is considered..OK. Pre-teen girls are gand raped and maimed. Or if a man's wife gives birth to a girl, well except for doing chores, women are considered as having no value..even as a human being. So it's ok for a father to kill his infant daughter.
Islamic men do pretty much the same in Arab nations to their women and children too.
Before a nation condemns MY nation's culture and ways...they had better come out of the stone age and learn the word HUMANITY in regards and respect to their OWN citizens and people, half the time who expect we..the western world, to save them from their own barbaric leaders.
That's hypocritical too. Africa, the 3rd world, Afganistan, Cuba, all in the last half century, their OWN people come to the Western nations asking for asylum and protection, so that shows you how bad it is in their nations.
Then their leaders KILL US!
As for trying to not get involved and letting nations take care of their own problems.
Look at WW2. The USA was NOT in the war, avoided involvement. We painfully watched our frineds in the UK, Poland, France, all being blitzed, slaughtered, and invaded by the Germans. BUT we stayed OUT of it.
So what happens? On a quiet Sunday morning, the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, killing unarmed military men, while they are still sleeping in bed and can't defend themselves and slaughter the whole base.
That's what turning the other cheek did for the USA in WW2.
Then..we HAD to fight and got into WW2. It was not retaliation, it was not revenge, ok maybe it was somewhat, but MOSTLY...
... it was defending ourselves and fighting back.
You guys wanna know how many innocent people have been "accidentally" killed by coallition forces just in order to fight terrorism?
The huge difference is that while the West targets terrorists and unfortunately causes civilian casualties, our attackers deliberately aim at innocent civilians...the more innocent and harmless the better. No wonder, since people like Saddam even use their own children as human shields.
I agree violence may cause more violence. But I think none of the people who are so outraged by Bush's policy has yet proposed a single viable solution. The only thing I hear is dialogue. But I think this term has become almost ridiculous used speaking of criminals like Bin Laden and the like.
Like I said in my previous post, turning the other cheek will only cause our extinction, like with the poor Tibetans.
So it is justified to kill innocent just to get rid of terrorists? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me at all. The more innocent people who die, the more this war will never end. Besides, who said that violence always works? Martin Luther King and Gandhi were able to put an end to opression and liberate their people without firing one single bullet.
Take for instance the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories. There's no doubt that Sharon and Arafat were two of the greatest war criminals who have ever existed. Sharon wasn't willing to negotiate with Arafat, and that definitely put a halt to any possibilities of achieving peace. Now that Arafat is dead, it seems like Sharon has been able to establish a much better relationship with Abbas towards achieving peace. Now, I really wish that Sharon could be sent to trial for crimes against humanity, but I'd much rather let the guy stay in power as long as he's able to work a peace agreement than keep fighting such a non-sense war. Let God judge this man for whatever he's done.
Take for instance the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories. There's no doubt that Sharon and Arafat were two of the greatest war criminals who have ever existed. Sharon wasn't willing to negotiate with Arafat, and that definitely put a halt to any possibilities of achieving peace. Now that Arafat is dead, it seems like Sharon has been able to establish a much better relationship with Abbas towards achieving peace. Now, I really wish that Sharon could be sent to trial for crimes against humanity, but I'd much rather let the guy stay in power as long as he's able to work a peace agreement than keep fighting such a non-sense war. Let God judge this man for whatever he's done.
So it is justified to kill innocent just to get rid of terrorists? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me at all. The more innocent people who die, the more this war will never end. Besides, who said that violence always works? Martin Luther King and Gandhi were able to put an end to opression and liberate their people without firing one single bullet.
Take for instance the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories. There's no doubt that Sharon and Arafat were two of the greatest war criminals who have ever existed. Sharon wasn't willing to negotiate with Arafat, and that definitely put a halt to any possibilities of achieving peace. Now that Arafat is dead, it seems like Sharon has been able to establish a much better relationship with Abbas towards achieving peace. Now, I really wish that Sharon could be sent to trial for crimes against humanity, but I'd much rather let the guy stay in power as long as he's able to work a peace agreement than keep fighting such a non-sense war. Let God judge this man for whatever he's done.
Martin Luther King and Ghandi...were ASSASINATED and killed by the same type of butchering fanatics who bombed London and the World Trade Towers.
That's what you get for doing the right, humane, peaceful, thing. All through time, the civil disobediants like Ghandi, Luther King, the Tibetans...get slaughtered.
The jews thought if they adopted civil disobediance at the beginning of WW2, the Germans would leave them alone. The jews said..do NOT fight them. Turn the other cheek. Try to have a dialogue with them. Yeah and 6 million jews along with Poles, catholics, Gays, mentally and physically handicpped people, gypsies, were nearly wiped out in Genocide.
I am Jewish. I do not subscribe to violence. But after WW2, the Jews said..NEVER again. Now we fight. Not because fighting is right. Sometimes it is your only choice for survival, literally, to be alive.
Even we Americans. Didn't the original settlers, Pilgrims and immigrants come to the USA for religous and other tolerance.
Did we not fight England...now our best ally and friend, for the right to be FREE and NOT oppressed.
And as I stated before, how many dissidants and immigrants, TODAT come to the USA and the UK from 3rd world puppet dictator regimes...to seek asylum and protection.
I will NEVER condone violence. But in the USA we have that old bill of rights, ''The right to bear arms'' for a reason.
If a soldier or terrorist comes to my home to torture or kill me, I am NOT going to let them slaughter me like sheep. I will fight like a viking, even if I still die, I will defend my right...TO LIVE.
You can't compare terrorism to the Palestinian-Israeli situation. In the latter we have 2 leaders who can confront each other and hopefully strike a deal. But with terrorism, who should we negotiate with?? What should we negotiate BTW?? These terrorists don't want something from us which we may grant them, like land. They want to destroy our culture, our way of life.
You can't compare terrorism to the Palestinian-Israeli situation. In the latter we have 2 leaders who can confront each other and hopefully strike a deal. But with terrorism, who should we negotiate with?? What should we negotiate BTW?? These terrorists don't want something from us which we may grant them, like land. They want to destroy our culture, our way of life.
I'm not saying we should negotiate with terrorists, but rather not give them more motives to attack us and create a lot more terrorists along the way. Have you ever thought how many kids who have lost their loved ones on air bombings by coallition forces will grow up to become terrorists? If we're going to fight terrorists then we should fight them in a way that will ensure the protection of innocent civilians, and if there's any one to attack should be the terrorists directly. You can't just bomb a place that is suspected to have terrorists regardless of the posibility that there might be innocent civilians that could be put at high risk. Of course, if the innocent civilians were American or British, the story would be completely different.
Arlene, again I agree with you 100%. Nonviolence in some cases will lead to your people being slaughtered and wiped out from the Earth.
I do hate violence. Personally, I feel bad even killing a fly! But another thing is self-defense.
The only solution I see along with wars on terrorism is a peaceful revolution from within these countries that generate suicide bombers. This however must be done from within the countries, and we can do little to help, except help restore democracy, wich is exactly what the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have done. Now it's time the Afghanis and Iraqis start caring for themselves, like Europe did after it was liberated by the allies.
Fairy
I do hate violence. Personally, I feel bad even killing a fly! But another thing is self-defense.
The only solution I see along with wars on terrorism is a peaceful revolution from within these countries that generate suicide bombers. This however must be done from within the countries, and we can do little to help, except help restore democracy, wich is exactly what the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have done. Now it's time the Afghanis and Iraqis start caring for themselves, like Europe did after it was liberated by the allies.
Fairy
You can't just bomb a place that is suspected to have terrorists regardless of the posibility that there might be innocent civilians that could be put at high risk.
And when did this ever happen??? The Coalition never targets civilians on purpose. It's our enemies that do.
Please now tell me what your solution would be to fight terrorism. I'm not being provocative. If there's anything other than war I'd be the first to be happy. But so far I have never heard any viable solution anywhere.
Fairy
The coallition "tries" to some extent to prevent civilian casualities, but there's been a great number of mistakes either based on carrying missions the wrong way or lack of information about targets. Just put yourself on someone else's shoes. How would you feel if a loved one was "accidentally" killed by someone who was targeting someone else?
Like I said before, isn't it amazing, all throught time, when you have civil disobediant people and leaders like Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Anwar Sadat (the 1st Arab leader to make peace with Isreal), Lincoln, the Tibetans, what do they get for their peaceful dialogue...
..assasinated..for doing the right thing.
Again, look at the citizens of these same terrorist nations. The citizens hate and fear their regimes and leaders.
How many boatloads of refugees from Cuba, Haiti, South Vietnam, (Communist era Russia), Africa, South America, come here seeking safety and their very lives.
Terrorism is just a Millennium term for the savagery that has gone on since the beginning of time and before there was codes of ''civilization''. Evil and brutality has always existed.
it's just that in modern times, there are ''civilized'' good cultures who try to do more than tun around raping and pillaging like our ancestors did.
Unfortunately, we are in the minority.
..assasinated..for doing the right thing.
Again, look at the citizens of these same terrorist nations. The citizens hate and fear their regimes and leaders.
How many boatloads of refugees from Cuba, Haiti, South Vietnam, (Communist era Russia), Africa, South America, come here seeking safety and their very lives.
Terrorism is just a Millennium term for the savagery that has gone on since the beginning of time and before there was codes of ''civilization''. Evil and brutality has always existed.
it's just that in modern times, there are ''civilized'' good cultures who try to do more than tun around raping and pillaging like our ancestors did.
Unfortunately, we are in the minority.
The coallition "tries" to some extent to prevent civilian casualities, but there's been a great number of mistakes either based on carrying missions the wrong way or lack of information about targets. Just put yourself on someone else's shoes. How would you feel if a loved one was "accidentally" killed by someone who was targeting someone else?
Of course I agree it is terrible and more. But until someone comes up with a better solution, I don't see any other way out than war. What kind of solution would you suggest?