[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance. QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from he disease he could have easily saved them from.
[/QUOTENAME]
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose it's views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fireplace wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance.
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from he disease he could have easily saved them from.
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose it's views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance.
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from he disease he could have easily saved them from.
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose it's views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fireplace wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fireplace wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance.
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from he disease he could have easily saved them from.
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose its views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
[/QUOTE]
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance.
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from he disease he could have easily saved them from.
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose its views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fireplace wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fireplace wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fireplace wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance.
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from a disease he could have easily saved them from.
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose its views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
For those who perceive the role of the pope to be irrelevant, you might want to turn the calendar back 15 to 20 years and see how Pope John Paul II, nearly single-handedly, brought down the Soviet Union and liberated Eastern Europe. Let's ask eastern europeans to tell us of the pope's irrelevance.
The pope currently has his hands full with issues such as the worldwide shortage of priests, the financial condition of the church, gay marriage, abortion, pedophilia in the American church, etc. You'll have to trust me on this one.....Queen's music hasn't made it to his radar screen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then he went on to "bring down" Africa by letting Africans rot away from a disease he could have easily saved them from.
Did any one ASK the pope to speak out about gay marriage? If he just lets it go he can scrap that one off his list.
Aren't the financial condition of the church and pedophilia in the American church the direct consequences of the Vatican policy?
I'll gladly respect anything you wish to believe, but since the Catholic church continually tries to impose its views on the rest of the world, there's precious little chance of having the favour returned.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Ahh, Fireplace, where to start...
Yes, the AIDS pandemic, poverty, ignorance, prejudice, human rights abuses, political aggression, disease, social unrest, terrorism, nuclear weapons, etc., are all worthy of the pope's attention.
Do you honestly believe the pope has "brought down" Africa by letting them rot in disease? And you believe that he could have easily saved them from AIDS? Perhaps you haven't heard that Catholic Relief Services and nuns from many orders are assisting in Africa? You aren't aware of educational efforts regarding what causes and transmits AIDS? Are you attempting to blame the pope for the AIDS pandemic while absolving the general population of disregarding safe and clean practices? The pope and the church in general teach correct principles and then let people live their own lives, with their own free will and agency. The pope has no control over people's sexual activities any more than he has control over the behavior of a drug addict. He might be able to influence, but the ultimate control and decisions are always exercised by the individual.
I'm reminded of something Mother Teresa said quite a few years ago. She said there are no global problems. All problems perceived to be global problems are really local problems, and as such, need to be addressed one by one on a local basis. If everyone did his share in assisting on a local basis, most problems perceived to be "global" could be significantly alleviated most effectively.
Regarding gay marriage (or abortion, for that matter), the pope is going to speak out on practices being adopted by the world which are inconsistent with scripture. Gay marriage isn't going to go away merely by the pope not talking about it anymore.
Granted, the financial condition of the church is a result of vatican policy, the way it raises or doesn't raise money, etc.
Pedophilia in the American church is NOT a result of Vatican policy. Unfortunately, it is a result of policy by the American cardinals and bishops who negligently gave preference to the need for priests over the need to protect children. And Pope John Paul II was incredibly angry and distressed about it and rightfully came down hard on the Americans.
Lastly, the Catholic Church doesn't try to impose its views on the rest of the world. It tries to teach correct principles and provide guidance. And I can't imagine that any of your freedoms have been abridged by anything coming from the pope. He's not telling you how to live your life. He's merely offering suggestions. You still have your free agency to make all your own decisions.
Yes, the AIDS pandemic, poverty, ignorance, prejudice, human rights abuses, political aggression, disease, social unrest, terrorism, nuclear weapons, etc., are all worthy of the pope's attention.
Do you honestly believe the pope has "brought down" Africa by letting them rot in disease? And you believe that he could have easily saved them from AIDS? Perhaps you haven't heard that Catholic Relief Services and nuns from many orders are assisting in Africa? You aren't aware of educational efforts regarding what causes and transmits AIDS? Are you attempting to blame the pope for the AIDS pandemic while absolving the general population of disregarding safe and clean practices? The pope and the church in general teach correct principles and then let people live their own lives, with their own free will and agency. The pope has no control over people's sexual activities any more than he has control over the behavior of a drug addict. He might be able to influence, but the ultimate control and decisions are always exercised by the individual.
I'm reminded of something Mother Teresa said quite a few years ago. She said there are no global problems. All problems perceived to be global problems are really local problems, and as such, need to be addressed one by one on a local basis. If everyone did his share in assisting on a local basis, most problems perceived to be "global" could be significantly alleviated most effectively.
Regarding gay marriage (or abortion, for that matter), the pope is going to speak out on practices being adopted by the world which are inconsistent with scripture. Gay marriage isn't going to go away merely by the pope not talking about it anymore.
Granted, the financial condition of the church is a result of vatican policy, the way it raises or doesn't raise money, etc.
Pedophilia in the American church is NOT a result of Vatican policy. Unfortunately, it is a result of policy by the American cardinals and bishops who negligently gave preference to the need for priests over the need to protect children. And Pope John Paul II was incredibly angry and distressed about it and rightfully came down hard on the Americans.
Lastly, the Catholic Church doesn't try to impose its views on the rest of the world. It tries to teach correct principles and provide guidance. And I can't imagine that any of your freedoms have been abridged by anything coming from the pope. He's not telling you how to live your life. He's merely offering suggestions. You still have your free agency to make all your own decisions.
I'm a Catholic, but I think the pope should focus more on the pedophiles in his own church rather than rock bands.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sithmarauder wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I'm a Catholic, but I think the pope should focus more on the pedophiles in his own church rather than rock bands. [/QUOTE]
You seem smart.
You seem smart.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Yes, the AIDS pandemic, poverty, ignorance, prejudice, human rights abuses, political aggression, disease, social unrest, terrorism, nuclear weapons, etc., are all worthy of the pope's attention.
Do you honestly believe the pope has "brought down" Africa by letting them rot in disease? And you believe that he could have easily saved them from AIDS? Perhaps you haven't heard that Catholic Relief Services and nuns from many orders are assisting in Africa? You aren't aware of educational efforts regarding what causes and transmits AIDS? Are you attempting to blame the pope for the AIDS pandemic while absolving the general population of disregarding safe and clean practices? The pope and the church in general teach correct principles and then let people live their own lives, with their own free will and agency. The pope has no control over people's sexual activities any more than he has control over the behavior of a drug addict. He might be able to influence, but the ultimate control and decisions are always exercised by the individual.
I'm reminded of something Mother Teresa said quite a few years ago. She said there are no global problems. All problems perceived to be global problems are really local problems, and as such, need to be addressed one by one on a local basis. If everyone did his share in assisting on a local basis, most problems perceived to be "global" could be significantly alleviated most effectively.
Regarding gay marriage (or abortion, for that matter), the pope is going to speak out on practices being adopted by the world which are inconsistent with scripture. Gay marriage isn't going to go away merely by the pope not talking about it anymore.
Granted, the financial condition of the church is a result of vatican policy, the way it raises or doesn't raise money, etc.
Pedophilia in the American church is NOT a result of Vatican policy. Unfortunately, it is a result of policy by the American cardinals and bishops who negligently gave preference to the need for priests over the need to protect children. And Pope John Paul II was incredibly angry and distressed about it and rightfully came down hard on the Americans.
Lastly, the Catholic Church doesn't try to impose its views on the rest of the world. It tries to teach correct principles and provide guidance. And I can't imagine that any of your freedoms have been abridged by anything coming from the pope. He's not telling you how to live your life. He's merely offering suggestions. You still have your free agency to make all your own decisions. [/QUOTE]
Thank you for your thorough and eloquent answer.
I will resist temptation (that's almost Catholic
:-)and not put up a religious polemic on a Queen-fansite, but I do feel the need to respond to the part about AIDS.
The reason AIDS is ravaging Africa is not the sexual behaviour of the average African. Human sexual behaviour is more or less the same all over the world, and the only reasons that Africa compares unfavourably to the West in terms of AIDS-vicitims are money and education.
To put it simple: we screw and know how to protect ourselves, they screw and don't have either the money/knowledge or both. I am sure a great deal of Catholics in the Western world use condoms. Better a safe sinner than a dead saint, if you'll pardon my meager attempt at humour.
The same pope that, according to you, is doing so much to improve awareness, is also depriving people of the simplest and safest way to avoid getting infected by effectively prohibiting the use of condoms. Of course I realise celibacy is an even better way, but considering the fact that the human race depends on sex for it's survival, not very feasible.
Yes, the AIDS pandemic, poverty, ignorance, prejudice, human rights abuses, political aggression, disease, social unrest, terrorism, nuclear weapons, etc., are all worthy of the pope's attention.
Do you honestly believe the pope has "brought down" Africa by letting them rot in disease? And you believe that he could have easily saved them from AIDS? Perhaps you haven't heard that Catholic Relief Services and nuns from many orders are assisting in Africa? You aren't aware of educational efforts regarding what causes and transmits AIDS? Are you attempting to blame the pope for the AIDS pandemic while absolving the general population of disregarding safe and clean practices? The pope and the church in general teach correct principles and then let people live their own lives, with their own free will and agency. The pope has no control over people's sexual activities any more than he has control over the behavior of a drug addict. He might be able to influence, but the ultimate control and decisions are always exercised by the individual.
I'm reminded of something Mother Teresa said quite a few years ago. She said there are no global problems. All problems perceived to be global problems are really local problems, and as such, need to be addressed one by one on a local basis. If everyone did his share in assisting on a local basis, most problems perceived to be "global" could be significantly alleviated most effectively.
Regarding gay marriage (or abortion, for that matter), the pope is going to speak out on practices being adopted by the world which are inconsistent with scripture. Gay marriage isn't going to go away merely by the pope not talking about it anymore.
Granted, the financial condition of the church is a result of vatican policy, the way it raises or doesn't raise money, etc.
Pedophilia in the American church is NOT a result of Vatican policy. Unfortunately, it is a result of policy by the American cardinals and bishops who negligently gave preference to the need for priests over the need to protect children. And Pope John Paul II was incredibly angry and distressed about it and rightfully came down hard on the Americans.
Lastly, the Catholic Church doesn't try to impose its views on the rest of the world. It tries to teach correct principles and provide guidance. And I can't imagine that any of your freedoms have been abridged by anything coming from the pope. He's not telling you how to live your life. He's merely offering suggestions. You still have your free agency to make all your own decisions. [/QUOTE]
Thank you for your thorough and eloquent answer.
I will resist temptation (that's almost Catholic
:-)and not put up a religious polemic on a Queen-fansite, but I do feel the need to respond to the part about AIDS.
The reason AIDS is ravaging Africa is not the sexual behaviour of the average African. Human sexual behaviour is more or less the same all over the world, and the only reasons that Africa compares unfavourably to the West in terms of AIDS-vicitims are money and education.
To put it simple: we screw and know how to protect ourselves, they screw and don't have either the money/knowledge or both. I am sure a great deal of Catholics in the Western world use condoms. Better a safe sinner than a dead saint, if you'll pardon my meager attempt at humour.
The same pope that, according to you, is doing so much to improve awareness, is also depriving people of the simplest and safest way to avoid getting infected by effectively prohibiting the use of condoms. Of course I realise celibacy is an even better way, but considering the fact that the human race depends on sex for it's survival, not very feasible.
Fireplace, I have to agree that AIDS is a particularly difficult issue. While the Catholic church teaches sexual abstinence outside of marriage, most cultures find that too difficult, onerous, and restrictive. And yes, education and money to afford condoms become issues. And then there's the frequently irresistable urge to go bare-back even when condoms are readily available, which has resulted in no shortage of AIDS cases in even the educated and wealthy countries.
Since the Catholic church teaches abstinence, it would be hypocritical for them to just hand out condoms. Instead, the Catholic Relief Services and nuns provide some measure of support and treatment, though hardly adequate, for those who become afflicted with AIDS. The church has opted to leave condom distribution up to the local governments, which are obviously not doing much of a job. Have to give credit to Bono for all his work in trying to get the wealthier western nations involved in financial support.
And thanks for your commentary. I have enjoyed your sense of humor.
Since the Catholic church teaches abstinence, it would be hypocritical for them to just hand out condoms. Instead, the Catholic Relief Services and nuns provide some measure of support and treatment, though hardly adequate, for those who become afflicted with AIDS. The church has opted to leave condom distribution up to the local governments, which are obviously not doing much of a job. Have to give credit to Bono for all his work in trying to get the wealthier western nations involved in financial support.
And thanks for your commentary. I have enjoyed your sense of humor.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]gnomo wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME] The Pope wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
YEAH, YOU PROTESTANT MOFOs!!![/QUOTE]
I'm a Catholic, I can see St.Peter's from my window right now and I know what I'm talking about. Are you, "holy father"?
--
Gnomo[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Protestant, my bad
YEAH, YOU PROTESTANT MOFOs!!![/QUOTE]
I'm a Catholic, I can see St.Peter's from my window right now and I know what I'm talking about. Are you, "holy father"?
--
Gnomo[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Protestant, my bad
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]You all should listen to gnomo and Andy. It's a shame that we still have so much ignorance in this world, but this time it isn't coming from the Church.[/QUOTE]
Thank you Music Man - of course that was just a reprise of an old declaration from Cardinal Ratzinger, based on an even older study, but probably my point did not come across too clearly (sorry, English is not my language).
So please forgive me if I point out that IMHO on this specific topic (as, unfortunately, on several more relevant) the catholic Church's official position actually IS the result of largely out-of-date and out-of-touch information, because AFAIK that report STILL gets used as the main reference by both the clergy and their critics, as if nothing else had happened in contemporary music and its impact on society since it was compiled.
And that does NOT make me too proud of being a catholic; first, because I think that everybody should only talk about what they actually know, and retrieve reliable first-hand information before talking about what they don't know, or otherwise refrain from talking.
Second, and more important, because I think any organized religion should only give a MORAL guidance to its followers, and not a clear-cut black-and-white this-is-good-that-is-bad step-by-step guide to every aspect of everyday life (there, I've nearly used up my full allowance of hyphens for 2006).
Third, because I think that such silly and unnecessary slips on minor subjects might actually diminish / undermine the overall value and credibility of the Church's moral and spiritual authority, in the view of both catholics and non-catholics.
And that's just a sorry waste of energy and resources, as well as lives - many thanks to rockyracoon and Fireplace for their insight about the AIDS issue in Africa.
By pointing out that I'm a catholic, I meant to remind that anyway (thank God!) the Pope's authority today is not what it used to be centuries ago, and catholics no longer use to blindly follow his every direction about everything - luckily, they also mostly aware of the political and cultural issues involved in the definition of "religious" guidelines, and use their own conscience and free will accordingly.
For instance, in Fireplace's words, I'm a safe sinner and I NEVER considered being a dead saint or a living ascete, whatever the Holy Father might say about it - just like most people I know.
So, no offence meant to QueenOfWrestling and all non-catholics here - it was rather the other way round: I DO understand your points and I actually share (not just agree with) some of your criticism.
What I do not understand is out-of-context sensationalism and religious bashing for the sake of it. I did not expect that from Queen fans, whom I generally consider above average intelligence.
FWIW
My best wishes to all for a peaceful 2006.
Thank you Music Man - of course that was just a reprise of an old declaration from Cardinal Ratzinger, based on an even older study, but probably my point did not come across too clearly (sorry, English is not my language).
So please forgive me if I point out that IMHO on this specific topic (as, unfortunately, on several more relevant) the catholic Church's official position actually IS the result of largely out-of-date and out-of-touch information, because AFAIK that report STILL gets used as the main reference by both the clergy and their critics, as if nothing else had happened in contemporary music and its impact on society since it was compiled.
And that does NOT make me too proud of being a catholic; first, because I think that everybody should only talk about what they actually know, and retrieve reliable first-hand information before talking about what they don't know, or otherwise refrain from talking.
Second, and more important, because I think any organized religion should only give a MORAL guidance to its followers, and not a clear-cut black-and-white this-is-good-that-is-bad step-by-step guide to every aspect of everyday life (there, I've nearly used up my full allowance of hyphens for 2006).
Third, because I think that such silly and unnecessary slips on minor subjects might actually diminish / undermine the overall value and credibility of the Church's moral and spiritual authority, in the view of both catholics and non-catholics.
And that's just a sorry waste of energy and resources, as well as lives - many thanks to rockyracoon and Fireplace for their insight about the AIDS issue in Africa.
By pointing out that I'm a catholic, I meant to remind that anyway (thank God!) the Pope's authority today is not what it used to be centuries ago, and catholics no longer use to blindly follow his every direction about everything - luckily, they also mostly aware of the political and cultural issues involved in the definition of "religious" guidelines, and use their own conscience and free will accordingly.
For instance, in Fireplace's words, I'm a safe sinner and I NEVER considered being a dead saint or a living ascete, whatever the Holy Father might say about it - just like most people I know.
So, no offence meant to QueenOfWrestling and all non-catholics here - it was rather the other way round: I DO understand your points and I actually share (not just agree with) some of your criticism.
What I do not understand is out-of-context sensationalism and religious bashing for the sake of it. I did not expect that from Queen fans, whom I generally consider above average intelligence.
FWIW
My best wishes to all for a peaceful 2006.
Well spoken Gnomo. I still suspect that religion is not as much the problem as people's interpretation of religion, and I firmly believe that NO ONE should have as much power as the pope has, even being a religious leader.
There is strength in diversity, and too much emphasis on the views of just one man may be a threat to that strength. Your healthy views on catholicism show that there is still hope!
My best wishes for 2006 to all who made an intelligent contribution, and perhaps we should now all go back to the rockin' 'n' rollin' that brought us here in the first place!
There is strength in diversity, and too much emphasis on the views of just one man may be a threat to that strength. Your healthy views on catholicism show that there is still hope!
My best wishes for 2006 to all who made an intelligent contribution, and perhaps we should now all go back to the rockin' 'n' rollin' that brought us here in the first place!
OK, first off i dont really agree with the religious pope bashing going on here. As stated this document is old, and thats merely his opinion, among many others. Who at that time really in an adult sense, especially if they were the God-fearing christians really LIKED rock n Roll, i meany my grandmother wouldnt let my father own any Rolling Stones albums. So thats much like a generational thing, not just a religious thing.
And everyone has a right to have their own religion and believe or not believe in what they want to. I am a Catholic, but i do not live my life by every word that comes out of the popes mouth, or that comes from the Bible for that matter, because it what was was right for that time, however i do agree with the major principles of brotherhood, peace etc.
And its not the popes fault the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and its not exactly his job to help end it. He can preach abstinance etc, and like anything else, people can take that into account in their own lives and use it, or they can do as they wish, thus the beauty of free will.
With that said, Happy New Year to ALL!
I Wish all of you Happiness, Health and Luck for the new year 2006.
And everyone has a right to have their own religion and believe or not believe in what they want to. I am a Catholic, but i do not live my life by every word that comes out of the popes mouth, or that comes from the Bible for that matter, because it what was was right for that time, however i do agree with the major principles of brotherhood, peace etc.
And its not the popes fault the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and its not exactly his job to help end it. He can preach abstinance etc, and like anything else, people can take that into account in their own lives and use it, or they can do as they wish, thus the beauty of free will.
With that said, Happy New Year to ALL!
I Wish all of you Happiness, Health and Luck for the new year 2006.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME] The Pope wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The Pope RULES!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]
Mr Pope,
Please, Allow me to purify your soul with urine of the wrestler child.
[/QUOTE]
Mr Pope,
Please, Allow me to purify your soul with urine of the wrestler child.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=black>Andy<font color=red>38 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If he is so out of touch with the modern world, then why does he have millions of people throughout the world respecting him and seeing him as an icon? Does that mean all these people are out of touch with reality too?[/QUOTE]
Most catholics adhere to something called "cafeteria catholicism", where they pick and choose which parts of the faith they agree with. The number of people who agree with every teaching of the church is decreasing by the day. It's been decreasing since the birth of modern science. So, out of those who do accept every teaching of the church, yes, they are out of touch with reality. I'll explain further below:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Regarding gay marriage (or abortion, for that matter), the pope is going to speak out on practices being adopted by the world which are inconsistent with scripture.[/QUOTE]
And that's precisely the problem... the church is still looking backwards for their answers, not forwards. Scripture written in the context of a world 2000 years old cannot be the primary source for wisdom in today's world. For one to believe that women, gays, or any other minority are substandard to others is very unacceptable behaviour in this day and age. Technically, if one takes scripture literally, women cannot work, nobody can get a mortgage on a house, and one must kill someone who disagrees with their belief in god. But back to the subject at hand - history has shows that any time a prejudice is questioned, the prejudice eventually dies. Women couldn't vote in my country until about 100 years ago, and blacks were still segregated 50 years ago. Thankfully those things changed, and now gay people are slowly being accepted as an equal part of society, at least in my country. I'd like to think the church will inevitably fail in this regard, as they have in so many others. How long did it take for the church to admit Galileo was right? 1991?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=black>Andy<font color=red>38 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It may surprise some of you to hear this, but, the Catholic Church respects other religious traditions and beliefs that exist throughout the world, even if doesn't agree with what they believe in or in some cases, stands for.[/QUOTE]
Cardinal Ratzinger himself once said that all deviations from catholic faith are wrong. That doesn't sound like someone who respects other traditions to me... or has he specifically said otherwise recently? I'd be happy if he has.
Interesting discussion in this topic, though!
Most catholics adhere to something called "cafeteria catholicism", where they pick and choose which parts of the faith they agree with. The number of people who agree with every teaching of the church is decreasing by the day. It's been decreasing since the birth of modern science. So, out of those who do accept every teaching of the church, yes, they are out of touch with reality. I'll explain further below:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rockyracoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Regarding gay marriage (or abortion, for that matter), the pope is going to speak out on practices being adopted by the world which are inconsistent with scripture.[/QUOTE]
And that's precisely the problem... the church is still looking backwards for their answers, not forwards. Scripture written in the context of a world 2000 years old cannot be the primary source for wisdom in today's world. For one to believe that women, gays, or any other minority are substandard to others is very unacceptable behaviour in this day and age. Technically, if one takes scripture literally, women cannot work, nobody can get a mortgage on a house, and one must kill someone who disagrees with their belief in god. But back to the subject at hand - history has shows that any time a prejudice is questioned, the prejudice eventually dies. Women couldn't vote in my country until about 100 years ago, and blacks were still segregated 50 years ago. Thankfully those things changed, and now gay people are slowly being accepted as an equal part of society, at least in my country. I'd like to think the church will inevitably fail in this regard, as they have in so many others. How long did it take for the church to admit Galileo was right? 1991?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=black>Andy<font color=red>38 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It may surprise some of you to hear this, but, the Catholic Church respects other religious traditions and beliefs that exist throughout the world, even if doesn't agree with what they believe in or in some cases, stands for.[/QUOTE]
Cardinal Ratzinger himself once said that all deviations from catholic faith are wrong. That doesn't sound like someone who respects other traditions to me... or has he specifically said otherwise recently? I'd be happy if he has.
Interesting discussion in this topic, though!