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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rhyeking wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Now, to really make your head hurt, the Instrumental on the Solo Collection Boxed Set features the "Teachers" version (without vocals), rather than the album version.
My only question now is *why bother* with two versions anyway, when the differences are so small? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer...I know Queen did this sort of thing a lot!)[/QUOTE]
Yes that is right. The instrumental version was made during the original sessions, hence is from the OST version. I think Freddie decided to remix it for MR. BAD GUY so it would not sound so 'weak' in the new context.
Now, to really make your head hurt, the Instrumental on the Solo Collection Boxed Set features the "Teachers" version (without vocals), rather than the album version.
My only question now is *why bother* with two versions anyway, when the differences are so small? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer...I know Queen did this sort of thing a lot!)[/QUOTE]
Yes that is right. The instrumental version was made during the original sessions, hence is from the OST version. I think Freddie decided to remix it for MR. BAD GUY so it would not sound so 'weak' in the new context.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Teachers soundtrack was also released before Mr. Bad Guy here in Brazil.
Cheers,
Ogre-[/QUOTE]
Same here in Argentina, in LP and cassette.
Cheers,
Ogre-[/QUOTE]
Same here in Argentina, in LP and cassette.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rhyeking wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I wish they'd release that soundtrack on CD, just so I can have that version in a digital form. I lifted it from my vinyl, and it sounds great, but remastered would be nice.[/QUOTE]
Well, the OST album was indeed pressed on CD, but only in Japan. It was then released in the local market and also in a limited run in the USA. I think there is no local pressing in the USA (I mean, that all the US CDs are made in Japan), but I have heard rumors otherwise.
Well, the OST album was indeed pressed on CD, but only in Japan. It was then released in the local market and also in a limited run in the USA. I think there is no local pressing in the USA (I mean, that all the US CDs are made in Japan), but I have heard rumors otherwise.
Well, regarding the Instrumental on the Boxed Set. They could very have decided to use the Album Version as the source, but didn't. Either way, it's a simple matter of mixing out Freddie's vocal track.
For those who are interested in how a run-of-the-mill recording session works, here's a simple description. (For those who DO know how such recordings work, bear in mind I'm detailing an elementary description, not a full-blown tutorial on 20th Century recording techniques, so please refrain from saying, "Yes, but you forgot *this*.")
A band or artist goes into a studio to record. Let's jump to the final recording of tracks (past the demo stages...this is band recording what will be the master, and ussually final, version).
Each musician (drummer, bassist, etc) lays down his/her track (e.g. the guitar track) seperate from the others' tracks (e.g. the drum track). Sometimes this will happen with all the players together in the studio, playing the song as a whole. There are microphones and pick-ups (mic hardware built into guitars, synths, etc) recording each instrument. Each instrument's sound is carried to the mixing board (big console with lots of knobs and buttons) and recorded onto it's own (used to be celluloid tape, now it mostly digital) track on the Master.
All these tracks run parrallel with each other:
So try to visualize...
Lead Guitar: Track 1
Rhythm Guitar: Track 2
Additional Guitar: Track 3
Bass Guitar: Track 4
Piano: Track 5
Synth: Track 6
Bass Drum: Track 7
Snare Drum 1: Track 8
Snare Drum 2: Track 9
Cymbal 1: Track 10
Cymbal 2: Track 11
High-Hat: Track 12
Cowbell: Track 13
Ambient Drum Mic 1: Track 14
Ambient Drum Mic 2: Track 15
Backing Vocal Mic 1: Track 16
Backing Vocal Mic 2: Track 17
Lead Vocal Mic 1: Track 18
(Let's assume there's no orchestra or other special instruments in this).
18 seperate tracks (or if you try to picture them as 18 parrallel lines, all side by side, it helps), and that's for a standard song. The mixing console does just what its name suggests, mixes all of these tracks together, allowing the artists and the engineer assisting them, to raise and lower the volume of each track individually, while listening to the whole song(this stage is called Setting the Levels). When they finally decide that each instrument and voice sounds the way the artists want, they play the tracks, set to the each proper level, and record it to the album's master tape (again it's mostly digital now). This is what ends up getting released.
When an artist or engineer wants to do an extended version, or an out-and-out dance remix, or a subtle change (such as in "Foolin' Around", he or she sits back at the console with those original master tracks and tweaks them some more. For the dance remix, say, they may add a Back Beat Track or two (or eleven) and mix out all the original drum tracks.
Now, back in the days of reel-to-reel celluloid master tapes, there may be two or three such masters for each song, each with different elements of the song. When mixing, these are cued up and played simultaneously.
What's happened with some of Queen's masters "elements" is that a few of the tapes vanished from their vaults. A notorious example of this was Roger's backing vocal track for "Coming Soon". It went missing and when Brian came to re-mixing the DTS for the DVD-A of The Game, he had to use an alternate track, hence its different sound.
The master for "God Save The Queen" was thought lost, but it was found in time fr the 30th Anniversay release of Opera, so Brian could do a full re-mix of the teack for surround.
Have I bored everyone yet?
Again, this was a simplified explanation and any professional sound engineers out there, I freely admit, there's a whole lot more to the process.
Back to my original point, when compiling the Solo Collection, they could have used the album version's master instead of the Teache
For those who are interested in how a run-of-the-mill recording session works, here's a simple description. (For those who DO know how such recordings work, bear in mind I'm detailing an elementary description, not a full-blown tutorial on 20th Century recording techniques, so please refrain from saying, "Yes, but you forgot *this*.")
A band or artist goes into a studio to record. Let's jump to the final recording of tracks (past the demo stages...this is band recording what will be the master, and ussually final, version).
Each musician (drummer, bassist, etc) lays down his/her track (e.g. the guitar track) seperate from the others' tracks (e.g. the drum track). Sometimes this will happen with all the players together in the studio, playing the song as a whole. There are microphones and pick-ups (mic hardware built into guitars, synths, etc) recording each instrument. Each instrument's sound is carried to the mixing board (big console with lots of knobs and buttons) and recorded onto it's own (used to be celluloid tape, now it mostly digital) track on the Master.
All these tracks run parrallel with each other:
So try to visualize...
Lead Guitar: Track 1
Rhythm Guitar: Track 2
Additional Guitar: Track 3
Bass Guitar: Track 4
Piano: Track 5
Synth: Track 6
Bass Drum: Track 7
Snare Drum 1: Track 8
Snare Drum 2: Track 9
Cymbal 1: Track 10
Cymbal 2: Track 11
High-Hat: Track 12
Cowbell: Track 13
Ambient Drum Mic 1: Track 14
Ambient Drum Mic 2: Track 15
Backing Vocal Mic 1: Track 16
Backing Vocal Mic 2: Track 17
Lead Vocal Mic 1: Track 18
(Let's assume there's no orchestra or other special instruments in this).
18 seperate tracks (or if you try to picture them as 18 parrallel lines, all side by side, it helps), and that's for a standard song. The mixing console does just what its name suggests, mixes all of these tracks together, allowing the artists and the engineer assisting them, to raise and lower the volume of each track individually, while listening to the whole song(this stage is called Setting the Levels). When they finally decide that each instrument and voice sounds the way the artists want, they play the tracks, set to the each proper level, and record it to the album's master tape (again it's mostly digital now). This is what ends up getting released.
When an artist or engineer wants to do an extended version, or an out-and-out dance remix, or a subtle change (such as in "Foolin' Around", he or she sits back at the console with those original master tracks and tweaks them some more. For the dance remix, say, they may add a Back Beat Track or two (or eleven) and mix out all the original drum tracks.
Now, back in the days of reel-to-reel celluloid master tapes, there may be two or three such masters for each song, each with different elements of the song. When mixing, these are cued up and played simultaneously.
What's happened with some of Queen's masters "elements" is that a few of the tapes vanished from their vaults. A notorious example of this was Roger's backing vocal track for "Coming Soon". It went missing and when Brian came to re-mixing the DTS for the DVD-A of The Game, he had to use an alternate track, hence its different sound.
The master for "God Save The Queen" was thought lost, but it was found in time fr the 30th Anniversay release of Opera, so Brian could do a full re-mix of the teack for surround.
Have I bored everyone yet?
Again, this was a simplified explanation and any professional sound engineers out there, I freely admit, there's a whole lot more to the process.
Back to my original point, when compiling the Solo Collection, they could have used the album version's master instead of the Teache
I think something is missing. Try to follow me, and PLEASE correct me if i`m wrong:
1- In the Box-set, Mr. Bad Guy sessions, tracks 4,5 and 6 are different versions of "Fooling Around". It seems that only track 4 (early demo with different lyrics) was recorded in 1984. The other two tracks were recorded on January 1985.
2- If this is true (and please correct me if i`m wrong), and if the instrumental track is the same as the Teachers OST, my conclusion is:
3- The soundtrack was released after January 1985 (It`s common nowadays that the soundtrack is released after the movies) and before Mr. Bad Guy. If so, then do you think it`s possible that for the movie Freddie didn`t have the finished version?- Or do you have absolute sure they`re the same?
4- If indeed the OST was released in 1984 as the movie then what we have in the box could be a different mixing of the song.
OK, i can`t say what it is but i think that something is missing from the Box-Set, because since may 1984 until January 1985 we don`t have any recording of this song. Am i right, or is it just me?
Take care
1- In the Box-set, Mr. Bad Guy sessions, tracks 4,5 and 6 are different versions of "Fooling Around". It seems that only track 4 (early demo with different lyrics) was recorded in 1984. The other two tracks were recorded on January 1985.
2- If this is true (and please correct me if i`m wrong), and if the instrumental track is the same as the Teachers OST, my conclusion is:
3- The soundtrack was released after January 1985 (It`s common nowadays that the soundtrack is released after the movies) and before Mr. Bad Guy. If so, then do you think it`s possible that for the movie Freddie didn`t have the finished version?- Or do you have absolute sure they`re the same?
4- If indeed the OST was released in 1984 as the movie then what we have in the box could be a different mixing of the song.
OK, i can`t say what it is but i think that something is missing from the Box-Set, because since may 1984 until January 1985 we don`t have any recording of this song. Am i right, or is it just me?
Take care
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rhyeking wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Well, regarding the Instrumental on the Boxed Set. They could very have decided to use the Album Version as the source, but didn't. Either way, it's a simple matter of mixing out Freddie's vocal track.
[...]
Back to my original point, when compiling the Solo Collection, they could have used the album version's master instead of the Teacher's verion master when making that Instrumental. I'd be curious to know why they chose the one and not the other (or if they even noticed a difference).
[/QUOTE]
Well, this might come as a surprise, but most of the instrumentals in the box set were mixed during the original sessions (same with all post-AKOM karaoke mixes from QUEEN). They didn't downmix them again from the original multitrack masters - they just used the existing mixdowns instead.
[...]
Back to my original point, when compiling the Solo Collection, they could have used the album version's master instead of the Teacher's verion master when making that Instrumental. I'd be curious to know why they chose the one and not the other (or if they even noticed a difference).
[/QUOTE]
Well, this might come as a surprise, but most of the instrumentals in the box set were mixed during the original sessions (same with all post-AKOM karaoke mixes from QUEEN). They didn't downmix them again from the original multitrack masters - they just used the existing mixdowns instead.
"In the Box-set, Mr. Bad Guy sessions, tracks 4,5 and 6 are different versions of "Fooling Around". It seems that only track 4 (early demo with different lyrics) was recorded in 1984. The other two tracks were recorded on January 1985."
Track 5 and 6 are 12" and instrumental remixes, I don't think there were any special recordings with Freddie, they could use master tapes which were used for the movie version...
Was or not this version on OST and when it was released - doesn't matter, because it was in movie! And movie definitely was released before January 1985...
P.S. Maybe Fred didn't plan this track to be released on his solo album? Like it was with another "written for movie song" Love Kills...
Track 5 and 6 are 12" and instrumental remixes, I don't think there were any special recordings with Freddie, they could use master tapes which were used for the movie version...
Was or not this version on OST and when it was released - doesn't matter, because it was in movie! And movie definitely was released before January 1985...
P.S. Maybe Fred didn't plan this track to be released on his solo album? Like it was with another "written for movie song" Love Kills...
I have to point out that you've missed out a '0' between the 3 and 5 in your signature Serry.
Serry: Inventor Of Terrible Tablature?... ;)
Serry: Inventor Of Terrible Tablature?... ;)
I'm sure my TEachers CD was made in the US, but I no longer have it to provide proof..
Here's the history of the song as I've determined from the available evidence:
May 31, 1984 - Early Version recorded.
October, 1984 - "Teachers" Soundtrack released, featuring "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)".
January, 1985 - "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)" planned as a 7" and 12" single. A 12" Mix and Instrumental are recorded for them. The single is never issued.
Between Jan. and April, Freddie re-mixes "Foolin' Around" for the album
April 29, 1985 - "Mr. Bad Guy" is released in the UK, with "Foolin' Around (Album Version)"
May 31, 1984 - Early Version recorded.
October, 1984 - "Teachers" Soundtrack released, featuring "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)".
January, 1985 - "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)" planned as a 7" and 12" single. A 12" Mix and Instrumental are recorded for them. The single is never issued.
Between Jan. and April, Freddie re-mixes "Foolin' Around" for the album
April 29, 1985 - "Mr. Bad Guy" is released in the UK, with "Foolin' Around (Album Version)"
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rhyeking wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Here's the history of the song as I've determined from the available evidence:
May 31, 1984 - Early Version recorded.
October, 1984 - "Teachers" Soundtrack released, featuring "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)".
January, 1985 - "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)" planned as a 7" and 12" single. A 12" Mix and Instrumental are recorded for them. The single is never issued.
Between Jan. and April, Freddie re-mixes "Foolin' Around" for the album
April 29, 1985 - "Mr. Bad Guy" is released in the UK, with "Foolin' Around (Album Version)"
[/QUOTE]
An other excellent post.
I think I would agree with this, but to be fair, it is not to dissimilar to Bobby_brown's posting above.
May 31, 1984 - Early Version recorded.
October, 1984 - "Teachers" Soundtrack released, featuring "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)".
January, 1985 - "Foolin' Around (Teachers Version)" planned as a 7" and 12" single. A 12" Mix and Instrumental are recorded for them. The single is never issued.
Between Jan. and April, Freddie re-mixes "Foolin' Around" for the album
April 29, 1985 - "Mr. Bad Guy" is released in the UK, with "Foolin' Around (Album Version)"
[/QUOTE]
An other excellent post.
I think I would agree with this, but to be fair, it is not to dissimilar to Bobby_brown's posting above.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Bobby_brown wrote: [/QUOTENAME]OK, i can`t say what it is but i think that something is missing from the Box-Set, because since may 1984 until January 1985 we don`t have any recording of this song. Am i right, or is it just me?[/QUOTE]
Well, in fact the box set is just a collection of Freddie-related tracks. It is was never meant to include everything. I do feel that some of the previously released material is really 'missing'. There is also some unreleased material which also would have been a nice addition to the set. So, some of us die-hard collectors regard the box partially as a lost opportunity. See John's recent thread:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=703932
But then again, we would compile a 100-CD set, would not we?
Well, in fact the box set is just a collection of Freddie-related tracks. It is was never meant to include everything. I do feel that some of the previously released material is really 'missing'. There is also some unreleased material which also would have been a nice addition to the set. So, some of us die-hard collectors regard the box partially as a lost opportunity. See John's recent thread:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=703932
But then again, we would compile a 100-CD set, would not we?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Wilki wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Bobby_brown wrote: [/QUOTENAME]OK, i can`t say what it is but i think that something is missing from the Box-Set, because since may 1984 until January 1985 we don`t have any recording of this song. Am i right, or is it just me?[/QUOTE]
Well, in fact the box set is just a collection of Freddie-related tracks. It is was never meant to include everything. I do feel that some of the previously released material is really 'missing'. There is also some unreleased material which also would have been a nice addition to the set. So, some of us die-hard collectors regard the box partially as a lost opportunity. See John's recent thread:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=703932
But then again, we would compile a 100-CD set, would not we?[/QUOTE]
One hundred and bloody one mate -
One hundred and bloody one!!!
Well, in fact the box set is just a collection of Freddie-related tracks. It is was never meant to include everything. I do feel that some of the previously released material is really 'missing'. There is also some unreleased material which also would have been a nice addition to the set. So, some of us die-hard collectors regard the box partially as a lost opportunity. See John's recent thread:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=703932
But then again, we would compile a 100-CD set, would not we?[/QUOTE]
One hundred and bloody one mate -
One hundred and bloody one!!!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Bohardy-har-har wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Serry: Inventor Of Terrible Tablature?... ;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the correction :) All terrible things on the Earth were invented by me actually...
Serry: Inventor Of Terrible Tablature?... ;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the correction :) All terrible things on the Earth were invented by me actually...