[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Other than those, I challenge anyone to find a valid excuse for abortion.
[/QUOTE]
But who would decide what's 'valid'? You? Me? A stranger in a long black robe? Or the woman and her doctor? I hear what you're saying about using abortion as birth control, and I agree. I'm sure many people agree. But then, how many of us shake our heads at pregnant teens or unwed mothers with step-ladder kids in tow? Damned either way it seems. This will always be a hot-button issue with the two sides battling to the end.
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Our messages are overlapping. :-)
theres a SOUTH Dakota now?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Other than those, I challenge anyone to find a valid excuse for abortion.
[/QUOTE]
But who would decide what's 'valid'? You? Me? A stranger in a long black robe? Or the woman and her doctor? I hear what you're saying about using abortion as birth control, and I agree. I'm sure many people agree. But then, how many of us shake our heads at pregnant teens or unwed mothers with step-ladder kids in tow? Damned either way it seems. This will always be a hot-button issue with the two sides battling to the end.[/QUOTE]
Ah, valid point. I suppose one thing it should do is teach people to use effective contraception or just keep it in their pants until they can actually handle the responsibility.
Ha, or they should institute a three strikes and you're out law. After your third abortion you can't have anymore. That's cute.
Other than those, I challenge anyone to find a valid excuse for abortion.
[/QUOTE]
But who would decide what's 'valid'? You? Me? A stranger in a long black robe? Or the woman and her doctor? I hear what you're saying about using abortion as birth control, and I agree. I'm sure many people agree. But then, how many of us shake our heads at pregnant teens or unwed mothers with step-ladder kids in tow? Damned either way it seems. This will always be a hot-button issue with the two sides battling to the end.[/QUOTE]
Ah, valid point. I suppose one thing it should do is teach people to use effective contraception or just keep it in their pants until they can actually handle the responsibility.
Ha, or they should institute a three strikes and you're out law. After your third abortion you can't have anymore. That's cute.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Ha, or they should institute a three strikes and you're out law. After your third abortion you can't have anymore. That's cute.[/QUOTE]
Love this. :-)
Ha, or they should institute a three strikes and you're out law. After your third abortion you can't have anymore. That's cute.[/QUOTE]
Love this. :-)
as an adopted child;
one that could have easily been aborted in a back alley illegal abortion house on the streets of boston--
i see abortion very differently i suppose then most
its something that tears at me every time i hear it discussed, politicalized and talked about--
i see both sides, really i do--- its a terrible and difficult choice for some--and a walk in the park for others
nothing though takes away the fact i could have ended up in a plastic bag in a trash can
i am grateful to my unknown birth mother that she decided on life for me...
richard thanks you where ever you are.......
one that could have easily been aborted in a back alley illegal abortion house on the streets of boston--
i see abortion very differently i suppose then most
its something that tears at me every time i hear it discussed, politicalized and talked about--
i see both sides, really i do--- its a terrible and difficult choice for some--and a walk in the park for others
nothing though takes away the fact i could have ended up in a plastic bag in a trash can
i am grateful to my unknown birth mother that she decided on life for me...
richard thanks you where ever you are.......
I too, have my own views and opinions on this issue. However, I do not want a government entity making decisions about what I can do with my body. I want to choose for myself bc I am ultimately the one that has to live with the choice that is made no matter if I made the decision or if it was made for me. I am not sure whether or not I am pro-life or not, but I am sure that I am pro-choice. I think each woman should be able to decide for herself given the circumstances, what would be the best decision for her, yes HER. I know this may sound selfish and most will say "what about the unborn baby?" It is a valid arguement, but this is how I feel. I do not want anyone else to make a decision like this for me. I want to be able to consult with a physician I trust, and go from there. BUT...I do NOT agree with using abortion as a means of birth control. I do agree with certain circumstances why a woman would choose abortion. For example, I have a friend that can not have children bc of the severity of her diabetes. Her Dr. says a pregnancy would put too much strain on her kidneys and shut them down. Now, if she were to get pregnant by accident, yes this happens....I would be in favor of her getting an abortion.
I could go on and on...I just think it should be a personal choice, not a government choice.
I could go on and on...I just think it should be a personal choice, not a government choice.
I'm totally anti-adoption and pro-abandoning...
If some right-wingers riding the "Christian"-horse actually think that abortion to victims of incest or rape are considered a greater sin than those crimes committed against the pregnated females... And they'd expect the women to carry through and give birth to a child of a person who committed one of the most inhumane acts on them?
Tells me all about their so-called morals to me.
Twisted... twisted... and once again twisted.
If some right-wingers riding the "Christian"-horse actually think that abortion to victims of incest or rape are considered a greater sin than those crimes committed against the pregnated females... And they'd expect the women to carry through and give birth to a child of a person who committed one of the most inhumane acts on them?
Tells me all about their so-called morals to me.
Twisted... twisted... and once again twisted.
In all the discussions about abortion and unborn life one important point is always omitted: There is no human life outside the body of the mother during pregnancy. The unborn child is a part of the mother's body and she is the only one who should have a say about if there should be an abortion or not. The myth of the "secondary birth control" is just propaganda, it happens only very rarely. Most women are decent human beings who are very responsible about their pregnancy and if they are in a state of need or distress they just have to have the right to decide themselves. It's not the right of the society to force them to carry on an unwanted pregnancy. For me abortion would never be an option but I insist that it's only the pregnant woman who can decide.
The idea that human life begins with the conceptiion is not really in the heads of the anti abortionists when it comes to a natural miscarriage for example. If a woman loses her baby at three months into the pregancy the fetus is thrown into the trash can along with other "biological waste" - no priest will bury it or baptize it. The whole discussion about abortion is just so incredibly hypocritical. There is not the slightest compassion for a woman who loses a child in miscarriage but on the other hand women are supposed to ask permission for an abortion. A society who still drafts young people to become soldiers or a society who even has the death penalty should not act like they have a moral right to establish an anti-abortion law.
The idea that human life begins with the conceptiion is not really in the heads of the anti abortionists when it comes to a natural miscarriage for example. If a woman loses her baby at three months into the pregancy the fetus is thrown into the trash can along with other "biological waste" - no priest will bury it or baptize it. The whole discussion about abortion is just so incredibly hypocritical. There is not the slightest compassion for a woman who loses a child in miscarriage but on the other hand women are supposed to ask permission for an abortion. A society who still drafts young people to become soldiers or a society who even has the death penalty should not act like they have a moral right to establish an anti-abortion law.
People who abort babies because they have a (fixable) cleft pallet, or because it would ruin their figure - those people should be shot.
People who just didn't mean to have a baby, but have the means to take care of it, should be made to have it as a lesson in responsibility.
People who have been raped, or might die during childbirth, should be allowed to abort the baby ASAP.
Aside from that; laws on abortion don't mean shit. People have been having abortions since they invented the coathanger, they will always get them if they really want them. These laws say more about the state of mind of the governing body than they ever will about the people affected by them.
Do I have to spell it out? Ok - religion should be entirely separated from state. These Christian nutbags have had their way with the gay community, and now they're going to screw everyone else over too.
People who just didn't mean to have a baby, but have the means to take care of it, should be made to have it as a lesson in responsibility.
People who have been raped, or might die during childbirth, should be allowed to abort the baby ASAP.
Aside from that; laws on abortion don't mean shit. People have been having abortions since they invented the coathanger, they will always get them if they really want them. These laws say more about the state of mind of the governing body than they ever will about the people affected by them.
Do I have to spell it out? Ok - religion should be entirely separated from state. These Christian nutbags have had their way with the gay community, and now they're going to screw everyone else over too.
"I want to choose for myself bc I am ultimately the one that has to live with the choice that is made no matter if I made the decision or if it was made for me."
Too true, if it's basically just a few cells growing inside you then the choice will only affect you.
I can't abide the idea of a 'late' abortion though. When it gets like that, it's no longer something that affects only one person, it affects both (I am deliberately ignoring the husband because men like myself don't have any business in this).
But I still believe that once it gets to a certain point, and the thing is laughing inside the womb, then I think you've really got to think less Abortion and more Adoption.
"There is not the slightest compassion for a woman who loses a child in miscarriage"
Yeah there is. That's a generalisation and a half.
"Most women are decent human beings who are very responsible about their pregnancy"
I'd be willing to agree, but with what, 3 billion women and 3 billion men, how are you possibly going to back that up? I'd agree that there's a lot of women who are decent and responsible, but you can bet there'd be scads of them that aren't.
"A society who still drafts young people to become soldiers or a society who even has the death penalty should not act like they have a moral right to establish an anti-abortion law."
Now this I can agree with, though I might say 'government' instead of 'society'. America isn't the only country with a government that's completely out of touch.
Too true, if it's basically just a few cells growing inside you then the choice will only affect you.
I can't abide the idea of a 'late' abortion though. When it gets like that, it's no longer something that affects only one person, it affects both (I am deliberately ignoring the husband because men like myself don't have any business in this).
But I still believe that once it gets to a certain point, and the thing is laughing inside the womb, then I think you've really got to think less Abortion and more Adoption.
"There is not the slightest compassion for a woman who loses a child in miscarriage"
Yeah there is. That's a generalisation and a half.
"Most women are decent human beings who are very responsible about their pregnancy"
I'd be willing to agree, but with what, 3 billion women and 3 billion men, how are you possibly going to back that up? I'd agree that there's a lot of women who are decent and responsible, but you can bet there'd be scads of them that aren't.
"A society who still drafts young people to become soldiers or a society who even has the death penalty should not act like they have a moral right to establish an anti-abortion law."
Now this I can agree with, though I might say 'government' instead of 'society'. America isn't the only country with a government that's completely out of touch.
"People who abort babies because they have a (fixable) cleft pallet, or because it would ruin their figure - those people should be shot.
People who just didn't mean to have a baby, but have the means to take care of it, should be made to have it as a lesson in responsibility.
People who have been raped, or might die during childbirth, should be allowed to abort the baby ASAP."
Why do you say "people"? It's WOMEN. Men don't get pregnant as a result of rape and men don't need to take the responsibility. It's the woman who is left alone and does not see a way out who usually gets an abortion. And it's NOT the alternative : rape victim or shallow yuppie bothered about the figure, that's just over simplifying the issue: there are numerous reasons why women consider an abortion and the society is of not much help. It's so cheap to point at the woman and call her whatever names when you yourself cannot even get into the situation. As long as women don't get a job because they have small children and as long as a rich society does not help to pay for the education of poor children, as long as there are children who have no warm meal per day, no health care, no proper schooling in a rich society, this society does not have the right to legally forbid abortion and nobody has the moral legitimation to judge a woman who chooses an abortion in a distressing situation.
People who just didn't mean to have a baby, but have the means to take care of it, should be made to have it as a lesson in responsibility.
People who have been raped, or might die during childbirth, should be allowed to abort the baby ASAP."
Why do you say "people"? It's WOMEN. Men don't get pregnant as a result of rape and men don't need to take the responsibility. It's the woman who is left alone and does not see a way out who usually gets an abortion. And it's NOT the alternative : rape victim or shallow yuppie bothered about the figure, that's just over simplifying the issue: there are numerous reasons why women consider an abortion and the society is of not much help. It's so cheap to point at the woman and call her whatever names when you yourself cannot even get into the situation. As long as women don't get a job because they have small children and as long as a rich society does not help to pay for the education of poor children, as long as there are children who have no warm meal per day, no health care, no proper schooling in a rich society, this society does not have the right to legally forbid abortion and nobody has the moral legitimation to judge a woman who chooses an abortion in a distressing situation.
"The bill passed by a vote of 47-22 and now goes to the state Senate"
I wonder how many of those 47 were women...
Great discussion happening here. So many intelligent people making very worthwhile points.
I wonder how many of those 47 were women...
Great discussion happening here. So many intelligent people making very worthwhile points.
"Why do you say "people"?"
Women are human beings aren't they? Why freakin' treat them like something else? That's sexism isn't it???
'that's just over simplifying the issue"
I don't see how. You either have someone who's got a good reason for doing it (for health reasons or situations where the kid got created due to rape) or you have someone who was just plain irresponsible, in which case I could give a rats about their 'choice'.
And I think it's a totally valid point about the cleft pallet. That has happened before, and it's a crime to be that fucking flippant with abortion because it's an easily fixed problem.
"It's so cheap to point at the woman and call her whatever names when you yourself cannot even get into the situation."
Don't look at me for name calling. I never throw names around unless someone earns them.
It's the height of malignant narcisissm to say I can't have an opinion on something. I say go for it, it's your right to choose - abort the little buggers, but for SHITS SAKE only do it if you have to, if there's a really valid reason for it.
Besides, I would never force my opinion on anyone, I would never force a woman to abort/not abort, and I most certainly would never freakin' be so pigheaded as to abuse my power as a politician (where I one) to actually ban the procedure altogether.
"Great discussion happening here. So many intelligent people making very worthwhile points."
Yes.
Women are human beings aren't they? Why freakin' treat them like something else? That's sexism isn't it???
'that's just over simplifying the issue"
I don't see how. You either have someone who's got a good reason for doing it (for health reasons or situations where the kid got created due to rape) or you have someone who was just plain irresponsible, in which case I could give a rats about their 'choice'.
And I think it's a totally valid point about the cleft pallet. That has happened before, and it's a crime to be that fucking flippant with abortion because it's an easily fixed problem.
"It's so cheap to point at the woman and call her whatever names when you yourself cannot even get into the situation."
Don't look at me for name calling. I never throw names around unless someone earns them.
It's the height of malignant narcisissm to say I can't have an opinion on something. I say go for it, it's your right to choose - abort the little buggers, but for SHITS SAKE only do it if you have to, if there's a really valid reason for it.
Besides, I would never force my opinion on anyone, I would never force a woman to abort/not abort, and I most certainly would never freakin' be so pigheaded as to abuse my power as a politician (where I one) to actually ban the procedure altogether.
"Great discussion happening here. So many intelligent people making very worthwhile points."
Yes.
YV said:
It's so cheap to point at the woman and call her whatever names when you yourself cannot even get into the situation. As long as women don't get a job because they have small children and as long as a rich society does not help to pay for the education of poor children, as long as there are children who have no warm meal per day, no health care, no proper schooling in a rich society, this society does not have the right to legally forbid abortion and nobody has the moral legitimation to judge a woman who chooses an abortion in a distressing situation.
I agree whole-heartedly with these statements.
It's so cheap to point at the woman and call her whatever names when you yourself cannot even get into the situation. As long as women don't get a job because they have small children and as long as a rich society does not help to pay for the education of poor children, as long as there are children who have no warm meal per day, no health care, no proper schooling in a rich society, this society does not have the right to legally forbid abortion and nobody has the moral legitimation to judge a woman who chooses an abortion in a distressing situation.
I agree whole-heartedly with these statements.