"The collectors tend to offer weird excuses because it looks better if they say "we won't share that because you would spread it in MP3's"
as far as i know i don't know any MP3 player like iPod reading flac or other.
i download flacs or other lossy formats and I convert them to MP3 to ear them on my iPod, untill a MP3 player that can play flac is out in the market
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]popy wrote: [/QUOTENAME]"The collectors tend to offer weird excuses because it looks better if they say "we won't share that because you would spread it in MP3's"
as far as i know i don't know any MP3 player like iPod reading flac or other.
i download flacs or other lossy formats and I convert them to MP3 to ear them on my iPod, untill a MP3 player that can play flac is out in the market[/QUOTE]There is at least 1 player that
supports FLAC, It's made by Cowan called I audio.
I purchased it last year soley to listen to these concerts in FLAC and MP3.
as far as i know i don't know any MP3 player like iPod reading flac or other.
i download flacs or other lossy formats and I convert them to MP3 to ear them on my iPod, untill a MP3 player that can play flac is out in the market[/QUOTE]There is at least 1 player that
supports FLAC, It's made by Cowan called I audio.
I purchased it last year soley to listen to these concerts in FLAC and MP3.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]popy wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
as far as i know i don't know any MP3 player like iPod reading flac or other. (1)
i download flacs or other lossy formats... (2) [/QUOTE]
(2) This is the whole issue, dear: flac is NOT lossy, as a matter of fact it is totally lossLESS!
(1)That's because MP3 players and iPods are for people that don't care about listening to only half the sound that the musician initially chose to put to record plus a lot of high-frequency noise.
I found out someone intended to give me an iPod or MP3 player as a gift - just in time to talk that rediciolous idea out of her head. lol.
I'm sorry - but I would not want to be found dead with an MP3-player stuck in my ear...
Nah, seriously. I realy cannot understand how people can listen to MP3's... Especially on headphones, which makes it even worse!
Are my ears realy SO much better then other people's??
as far as i know i don't know any MP3 player like iPod reading flac or other. (1)
i download flacs or other lossy formats... (2) [/QUOTE]
(2) This is the whole issue, dear: flac is NOT lossy, as a matter of fact it is totally lossLESS!
(1)That's because MP3 players and iPods are for people that don't care about listening to only half the sound that the musician initially chose to put to record plus a lot of high-frequency noise.
I found out someone intended to give me an iPod or MP3 player as a gift - just in time to talk that rediciolous idea out of her head. lol.
I'm sorry - but I would not want to be found dead with an MP3-player stuck in my ear...
Nah, seriously. I realy cannot understand how people can listen to MP3's... Especially on headphones, which makes it even worse!
Are my ears realy SO much better then other people's??
This player suppors FLAC and WAV
http://onlinestore.cowonamerica.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=172
http://onlinestore.cowonamerica.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=172
I think FLAC and other lossless formats are great. Then I can have good quality and convert it to anything i like for my portable player.
If ppl wanna share lossless format its good, but more important I think is to get copies with better quality. Cos many concert shared is in bad quality even if they where in lossless format. But I just downlaod what I like and share if i get anything to share.
When I look for other bands like Led Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, I find a lot of stuff in really nice quality compared to what I find of Queen, but lately I have found more and more interesting Queen things on the net :D
If ppl wanna share lossless format its good, but more important I think is to get copies with better quality. Cos many concert shared is in bad quality even if they where in lossless format. But I just downlaod what I like and share if i get anything to share.
When I look for other bands like Led Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, I find a lot of stuff in really nice quality compared to what I find of Queen, but lately I have found more and more interesting Queen things on the net :D
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr. Scully wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I've noticed that a lot of collectors claim that they don't share their recordings on QueenZone because they are afraid that the QueenZone community could share them as lossy MP3's.
That is, of course, BULLSHIT - LIE - STUPID EXCUSE.[/QUOTE]
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't. What I'm talking about usually comes from people who aren't exclusively Queen collectors, but rather people who trade for other bands' recordings, and happen to have a few Queen ones. I've had plenty of experience dealing with Zeppelin/Beatles/Yes/Floyd collectors. More than once I've been denied a trade because they were afraid their Queen recordings would become mp3s - and one time it was a new US '76 show. The mentality of this website has spread. People from QZ are contacting collectors of other bands for trades, and this pro-mp3 attitude has become our reputation. Many, many collectors have told me this when I've contacted them for trades... and they think I'm just like the other Queen fans who have contacted them in the past, so they refused to trade their Queen. But they had no problem offering their other stuff! They know that the vast majority of Zeppelin/Floyd/Yes collectors scowl at anyone who is pro-mp3, so one or two mp3 collectors are of no threat to their communities' established quality standards.
Martin... We Queen collectors are not taken seriously in the outside collecting world at all, and it's time that we pull up our socks and accept this fact - and do something about it! In the last several years, only THREE new sources of Queen shows have showed up at Dime and TTD. But there are plenty of new Beatles, Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, AC/DC, Yes, and countless others showing up all the time. Why? Because people who collect those bands have quality standards. It makes perfect sense. It's blatantly obvious. Trust me... there are plenty of Queen recordings out there - certainly many US '76-80 shows - and QZ is the reason why they're not shared. Honestly, can you think of a better reason? People know that Queen are one of the most important live bands ever, so it's certainly not because of a lack of demand.
People can stick up for QZ all they want, but it will only be from people who aren't talking to people in the outside collecting world. The majority of Queen collectors trade only Queen. Queenzone's pro-mp3 policy is the reason why many new recordings are kept under wraps. It's up to you if you want to believe me or not.
This is the truth as to why I choose not to share at Queenzone. I refuse to make new sources or upgrades available, only for them to become mp3. As I said earlier... if Queenzone enforced a non-mp3 policy, I would share the majority my collection here over time. At the moment, sharing FLACs here is pointless. Most people wouldn't download them, because they prefer mp3.
What I'm trying to do is enforce quality standards at QZ, so that people in the wider collecting world can respect us, and feel they can trust us with their recordings. But most people here don't know how all this stuff works, and they look down on me as if I'm some kind of enemy who is snobbily looking down at them.
But I agree with the rest of your post, regarding the mentality of collectors. This is simply the way it works, and not just in the Queen world. Collecting can be very serious business. There have been fights and even death threats in the Zeppelin community over unheard recordings. Most people just don't get it...
That is, of course, BULLSHIT - LIE - STUPID EXCUSE.[/QUOTE]
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't. What I'm talking about usually comes from people who aren't exclusively Queen collectors, but rather people who trade for other bands' recordings, and happen to have a few Queen ones. I've had plenty of experience dealing with Zeppelin/Beatles/Yes/Floyd collectors. More than once I've been denied a trade because they were afraid their Queen recordings would become mp3s - and one time it was a new US '76 show. The mentality of this website has spread. People from QZ are contacting collectors of other bands for trades, and this pro-mp3 attitude has become our reputation. Many, many collectors have told me this when I've contacted them for trades... and they think I'm just like the other Queen fans who have contacted them in the past, so they refused to trade their Queen. But they had no problem offering their other stuff! They know that the vast majority of Zeppelin/Floyd/Yes collectors scowl at anyone who is pro-mp3, so one or two mp3 collectors are of no threat to their communities' established quality standards.
Martin... We Queen collectors are not taken seriously in the outside collecting world at all, and it's time that we pull up our socks and accept this fact - and do something about it! In the last several years, only THREE new sources of Queen shows have showed up at Dime and TTD. But there are plenty of new Beatles, Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, AC/DC, Yes, and countless others showing up all the time. Why? Because people who collect those bands have quality standards. It makes perfect sense. It's blatantly obvious. Trust me... there are plenty of Queen recordings out there - certainly many US '76-80 shows - and QZ is the reason why they're not shared. Honestly, can you think of a better reason? People know that Queen are one of the most important live bands ever, so it's certainly not because of a lack of demand.
People can stick up for QZ all they want, but it will only be from people who aren't talking to people in the outside collecting world. The majority of Queen collectors trade only Queen. Queenzone's pro-mp3 policy is the reason why many new recordings are kept under wraps. It's up to you if you want to believe me or not.
This is the truth as to why I choose not to share at Queenzone. I refuse to make new sources or upgrades available, only for them to become mp3. As I said earlier... if Queenzone enforced a non-mp3 policy, I would share the majority my collection here over time. At the moment, sharing FLACs here is pointless. Most people wouldn't download them, because they prefer mp3.
What I'm trying to do is enforce quality standards at QZ, so that people in the wider collecting world can respect us, and feel they can trust us with their recordings. But most people here don't know how all this stuff works, and they look down on me as if I'm some kind of enemy who is snobbily looking down at them.
But I agree with the rest of your post, regarding the mentality of collectors. This is simply the way it works, and not just in the Queen world. Collecting can be very serious business. There have been fights and even death threats in the Zeppelin community over unheard recordings. Most people just don't get it...
Upload everything. Then you will have everything. You'll skip months of unnecessary negotiations in the process.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Upload everything. Then you will have everything. You'll skip months of unnecessary negotiations in the process.[/QUOTE]
And when I'm offered something rare in a trade, what will I offer them in exchange? The recording that used to be rare but everyone now has since I shared it on QZ?
In a perfect world your philosophy would work, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
And when I'm offered something rare in a trade, what will I offer them in exchange? The recording that used to be rare but everyone now has since I shared it on QZ?
In a perfect world your philosophy would work, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
The truth is that the collectors don't share because (1.) they don't want to or (2.) they are forbidden to or (3.) they don't have time/connection for it or (4.) they keep rare recordings for special trades only.
Thanks for being honest.
I agree that sharing MP3s should not be banned. Not that I download them myself, I have no use for bootleg audios of concerts.
Ditto for low quality videos. They are quick to download, so one can see if he wants a higher quality copy.
I also agree with Sithmarauder that those who want MP3s should be EDUCATED AND ENCOURAGED to convert lossless formats to MP3s themselves.
Thanks for being honest.
I agree that sharing MP3s should not be banned. Not that I download them myself, I have no use for bootleg audios of concerts.
Ditto for low quality videos. They are quick to download, so one can see if he wants a higher quality copy.
I also agree with Sithmarauder that those who want MP3s should be EDUCATED AND ENCOURAGED to convert lossless formats to MP3s themselves.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
This is the truth as to why I choose not to share at Queenzone. I refuse to make new sources or upgrades available, only for them to become mp3. As I said earlier... if Queenzone enforced a non-mp3 policy, I would share the majority my collection here over time. At the moment, sharing FLACs here is pointless. Most people wouldn't download them, because they prefer mp3.[/QUOTE]
It is not ONLY that people need to understand and accept that lossless formats are the only acceptable way to distribute unreleased material. It is the whole attitude towards this material that needs to change here. It is really a great joy to share live recordings with other fans, who appreciate what they are getting. However, I've absolutely zero interest in sharing anything here where the majority of people have a "bootlegs all sound like shit anyway, so who cares whether it's lossy or not"-mentality. I just read another similar topic, where some idiot (seriously?) wanted to make people believe that mp3 encoding improved the quality of a recordings, since it basically worked like a hiss reduction. And there are tons of examples like that.
I mean how can anyone expect serious collectors to share their recordings when this place is crowded with people like that? As I said I have no problems to share anything as long as I get the impression that the downloaders appreciate and really care about the shows they are getting. This involves that they preserve the quality of the recording and distribute it further in lossless formats only. We are very fortunate that we have access to all these unreleased recordings and these shows have to be treasured by us fans and preserved in the best quality possible. Unless the large majority of people accept this fact, QZ will never become a place where quality recordings are shared.
This is the truth as to why I choose not to share at Queenzone. I refuse to make new sources or upgrades available, only for them to become mp3. As I said earlier... if Queenzone enforced a non-mp3 policy, I would share the majority my collection here over time. At the moment, sharing FLACs here is pointless. Most people wouldn't download them, because they prefer mp3.[/QUOTE]
It is not ONLY that people need to understand and accept that lossless formats are the only acceptable way to distribute unreleased material. It is the whole attitude towards this material that needs to change here. It is really a great joy to share live recordings with other fans, who appreciate what they are getting. However, I've absolutely zero interest in sharing anything here where the majority of people have a "bootlegs all sound like shit anyway, so who cares whether it's lossy or not"-mentality. I just read another similar topic, where some idiot (seriously?) wanted to make people believe that mp3 encoding improved the quality of a recordings, since it basically worked like a hiss reduction. And there are tons of examples like that.
I mean how can anyone expect serious collectors to share their recordings when this place is crowded with people like that? As I said I have no problems to share anything as long as I get the impression that the downloaders appreciate and really care about the shows they are getting. This involves that they preserve the quality of the recording and distribute it further in lossless formats only. We are very fortunate that we have access to all these unreleased recordings and these shows have to be treasured by us fans and preserved in the best quality possible. Unless the large majority of people accept this fact, QZ will never become a place where quality recordings are shared.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Upload everything. Then you will have everything. You'll skip months of unnecessary negotiations in the process.[/QUOTE]
And when I'm offered something rare in a trade, what will I offer them in exchange? The recording that used to be rare but everyone now has since I shared it on QZ?
In a perfect world your philosophy would work, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.[/QUOTE]
We're being hypothetical. In my hypothetical scenario, you wouldn't have been offered anything rare because it'd already be up.
Dude I wasn't being logical about it, and I wasn't factoring in human greed - it was just an observation. If everything were public domain and readily available, there wouldn't *be* trading - and you know, that would work even in an imperfect world. The reason such a situation doesn't exist is because there'd be some asshole who'd hold onto their stash :D
A shame really!
And when I'm offered something rare in a trade, what will I offer them in exchange? The recording that used to be rare but everyone now has since I shared it on QZ?
In a perfect world your philosophy would work, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.[/QUOTE]
We're being hypothetical. In my hypothetical scenario, you wouldn't have been offered anything rare because it'd already be up.
Dude I wasn't being logical about it, and I wasn't factoring in human greed - it was just an observation. If everything were public domain and readily available, there wouldn't *be* trading - and you know, that would work even in an imperfect world. The reason such a situation doesn't exist is because there'd be some asshole who'd hold onto their stash :D
A shame really!
Zebonka wrote:
"We're being hypothetical. In my hypothetical scenario, you wouldn't have been offered anything rare because it'd already be up.
Dude I wasn't being logical about it, and I wasn't factoring in human greed - it was just an observation. If everything were public domain and readily available, there wouldn't *be* trading - and you know, that would work even in an imperfect world. The reason such a situation doesn't exist is because there'd be some asshole who'd hold onto their stash :D
A shame really! "
You hit the nail right on the head.
"We're being hypothetical. In my hypothetical scenario, you wouldn't have been offered anything rare because it'd already be up.
Dude I wasn't being logical about it, and I wasn't factoring in human greed - it was just an observation. If everything were public domain and readily available, there wouldn't *be* trading - and you know, that would work even in an imperfect world. The reason such a situation doesn't exist is because there'd be some asshole who'd hold onto their stash :D
A shame really! "
You hit the nail right on the head.
Well if I hit any nails, it was intended to be this one :
Basically... the only thing stopping us from widespread sharing of 'rare things' is ourselves, and I readily concede that people have their reasons for holding onto the stuff. Everyone has a hobby I suppose.
I wasn't lambasting folks reasons for hoarding - I merely pointed out that if we were robots and had no personal vices like greed (no - greed is too strong a word, look for a weaker word here) then 'trading' wouldn't come into it, and things would just pass about freely.
Anyway.
Basically... the only thing stopping us from widespread sharing of 'rare things' is ourselves, and I readily concede that people have their reasons for holding onto the stuff. Everyone has a hobby I suppose.
I wasn't lambasting folks reasons for hoarding - I merely pointed out that if we were robots and had no personal vices like greed (no - greed is too strong a word, look for a weaker word here) then 'trading' wouldn't come into it, and things would just pass about freely.
Anyway.
There is a compromise solution that is already being used to some extent: share lossy format on rapishare ONLY, and only torrent lossless.
Many shows are already in MP3 format, and lower quality videos. Keep those on rapishare. There is a South American site that has most of the shows available via rapishare links. If someone requests lossy formats, they can be directed there or to other rapishare links.
Shareware that converts lossless to lossy can also be uploaded to rapishare, along with instructions on how to do the conversion.
This should keep everyone happy.
Many shows are already in MP3 format, and lower quality videos. Keep those on rapishare. There is a South American site that has most of the shows available via rapishare links. If someone requests lossy formats, they can be directed there or to other rapishare links.
Shareware that converts lossless to lossy can also be uploaded to rapishare, along with instructions on how to do the conversion.
This should keep everyone happy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If everything were public domain and readily available, there wouldn't *be* trading - and you know, that would work even in an imperfect world. The reason such a situation doesn't exist is because there'd be some asshole who'd hold onto their stash[/QUOTE]
Right. It's that asshole who is holding onto some kind of holy grail, so collectors are forced to play by his rules if they want to have any kind of a chance to even see a sample of his recording.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]tgunn2760 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There is a compromise solution that is already being used to some extent: share lossy format on rapishare ONLY, and only torrent lossless.
---
This should keep everyone happy.[/QUOTE]
It would be a step ahead, but it wouldn't make everyone completely happy. But I guess we have to start somewhere!
Right. It's that asshole who is holding onto some kind of holy grail, so collectors are forced to play by his rules if they want to have any kind of a chance to even see a sample of his recording.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]tgunn2760 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There is a compromise solution that is already being used to some extent: share lossy format on rapishare ONLY, and only torrent lossless.
---
This should keep everyone happy.[/QUOTE]
It would be a step ahead, but it wouldn't make everyone completely happy. But I guess we have to start somewhere!