[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]You don't even know what the western scale is or how it works, just shut up.[/QUOTE]
12 semitones per octave...? *rolls eyes*
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And with just that you think that you already understand music...
Music is independent of understanding or knowledge. It's not economics - it's art. Anyone who pretends that there is a base of knowledge necessary to understand art is simply being pretentious, if not completely ignorant.
You can try to understand what elicits beauty, and that's fine, although impossible. However, concluding that there are steadfast rules necessary to elicit beauty is utterly senseless.
You can try to understand what elicits beauty, and that's fine, although impossible. However, concluding that there are steadfast rules necessary to elicit beauty is utterly senseless.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]And with just that you think that you already understand music...[/QUOTE]
Since we first discussed Page, you've been repeating two things a lot:
a) It's necessary to have good technical knowledge to make good music
b) You're technically better than Page
You got to the point of saying some of your compositions are better than Page (some bullshit about using 40 different chords in the same song, while Page would use only a handful...), and since then I've been asking you to show me some of your stuff. By putting items "a" and "b" together, we can conclude your music must be better than Page's. Why don't you prove it? At the moment, I've only heard you strumming easy shit on the guitar while singing joke lyrics, playing with voice delays, and covering other people's songs.
Since we first discussed Page, you've been repeating two things a lot:
a) It's necessary to have good technical knowledge to make good music
b) You're technically better than Page
You got to the point of saying some of your compositions are better than Page (some bullshit about using 40 different chords in the same song, while Page would use only a handful...), and since then I've been asking you to show me some of your stuff. By putting items "a" and "b" together, we can conclude your music must be better than Page's. Why don't you prove it? At the moment, I've only heard you strumming easy shit on the guitar while singing joke lyrics, playing with voice delays, and covering other people's songs.
Oh man this is getting good.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=666600><b>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Music is independent of understanding or knowledge. It's not economics - it's art. Anyone who pretends that there is a base of knowledge necessary to understand art is simply being pretentious, if not completely ignorant.
You can try to understand what elicits beauty, and that's fine, although impossible. However, concluding that there are steadfast rules necessary to elicit beauty is utterly senseless.[/QUOTE]Art is knowledge. Art is pretentious.
If it weren't, then any idiot could be a genius.
You can try to understand what elicits beauty, and that's fine, although impossible. However, concluding that there are steadfast rules necessary to elicit beauty is utterly senseless.[/QUOTE]Art is knowledge. Art is pretentious.
If it weren't, then any idiot could be a genius.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]And with just that you think that you already understand music...[/QUOTE]
Since we first discussed Page, you've been repeating two things a lot:
a) It's necessary to have good technical knowledge to make good music
b) You're technically better than Page
You got to the point of saying some of your compositions are better than Page (some bullshit about using 40 different chords in the same song, while Page would use only a handful...), and since then I've been asking you to show me some of your stuff. By putting items "a" and "b" together, we can conclude your music must be better than Page's. Why don't you prove it? At the moment, I've only heard you strumming easy shit on the guitar while singing joke lyrics, playing with voice delays, and covering other people's songs. [/QUOTE]I never said my music was better than Page's. I just wonder how, if he is an amazing incredible outstanding composer, a stupid 18 year old fuck like me can write more complex stuff?
Then he must not be that amazing incredible and outstanding, after all.
But you're asking and I must answer.
Here's the prelude from my Suite for Piano and Orchestra in G Minor I wrote a year ago. It's absolutely not the most complex thing I've ever written but I have this weird feeling towards it, you know, like it's special. I really like it and most of the time I don't like my own works.
http://rapidshare.de/files/38484981/Prelude_2_.mp3.html
If you like Final Fantasy-like music, I guess you may like it.
My opinion towards my own compositions is that I still don't get where I want to. It's just not there yet and it's hard to realize what's missing. Ask me to write a better song than Walking Back to Waterloo by the Bee Gees and I will say that I wouldn't be able do it in a million years.
But damn... a stupid 5/6 chord rock song that barely has arrangements? Fuck, I can do better than that!
Since we first discussed Page, you've been repeating two things a lot:
a) It's necessary to have good technical knowledge to make good music
b) You're technically better than Page
You got to the point of saying some of your compositions are better than Page (some bullshit about using 40 different chords in the same song, while Page would use only a handful...), and since then I've been asking you to show me some of your stuff. By putting items "a" and "b" together, we can conclude your music must be better than Page's. Why don't you prove it? At the moment, I've only heard you strumming easy shit on the guitar while singing joke lyrics, playing with voice delays, and covering other people's songs. [/QUOTE]I never said my music was better than Page's. I just wonder how, if he is an amazing incredible outstanding composer, a stupid 18 year old fuck like me can write more complex stuff?
Then he must not be that amazing incredible and outstanding, after all.
But you're asking and I must answer.
Here's the prelude from my Suite for Piano and Orchestra in G Minor I wrote a year ago. It's absolutely not the most complex thing I've ever written but I have this weird feeling towards it, you know, like it's special. I really like it and most of the time I don't like my own works.
http://rapidshare.de/files/38484981/Prelude_2_.mp3.html
If you like Final Fantasy-like music, I guess you may like it.
My opinion towards my own compositions is that I still don't get where I want to. It's just not there yet and it's hard to realize what's missing. Ask me to write a better song than Walking Back to Waterloo by the Bee Gees and I will say that I wouldn't be able do it in a million years.
But damn... a stupid 5/6 chord rock song that barely has arrangements? Fuck, I can do better than that!
I guess if anything, these threads expose the differing schools of thought here - whether it's important to reach people, to express yourself, to write complex things, or to write basic things but play them properly...
I mean fuck, maybe I'm too vague for my own good, but I generally think all of those things are important in music.
Only because I'm a wuss with a broken heart (heh), if you ask me what's THE more important factor, I'd lean towards the emotionally-related ones. And that's not because I don't have the brains for advanced music. I listen to enough of it, it's just that I have different priorities. Most people do..
So when I say 'fuck Steve Vai', I really don't say it with much conviction, as though I think he's the scum of the earth and should stop polluting the airwaves.
I say it firstly because I simply don't care that much for his music (I guiltily admit I like a couple of his tunes)
and secondly because there are loads of people out there who don't like it. And it doesn't mean they are morons. It means they don't like his music. They have reasons, that are only as valid as your reasons for liking the songs..
I can never imagine any sane person getting any enjoyment out of Bob Dylan's voice. Or Tom Petty, for that matter. Yet there must be something in the songs that works for people.
Doesn't that give it some inherent quality - even if the singers can't carry a fucking tune?
Hmmm. I will have to give this more thought.
I mean fuck, maybe I'm too vague for my own good, but I generally think all of those things are important in music.
Only because I'm a wuss with a broken heart (heh), if you ask me what's THE more important factor, I'd lean towards the emotionally-related ones. And that's not because I don't have the brains for advanced music. I listen to enough of it, it's just that I have different priorities. Most people do..
So when I say 'fuck Steve Vai', I really don't say it with much conviction, as though I think he's the scum of the earth and should stop polluting the airwaves.
I say it firstly because I simply don't care that much for his music (I guiltily admit I like a couple of his tunes)
and secondly because there are loads of people out there who don't like it. And it doesn't mean they are morons. It means they don't like his music. They have reasons, that are only as valid as your reasons for liking the songs..
I can never imagine any sane person getting any enjoyment out of Bob Dylan's voice. Or Tom Petty, for that matter. Yet there must be something in the songs that works for people.
Doesn't that give it some inherent quality - even if the singers can't carry a fucking tune?
Hmmm. I will have to give this more thought.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I never said my music was better than Page's. I just wonder how, if he is an amazing incredible outstanding composer, a stupid 18 year old fuck like me can write more complex stuff?[/QUOTE]
First, you say good music doesn't need to be very technical.
But then, you confess your music isn't better than his, only more difficult. Yet you keep criticising him. *rolls eyes* Will you stop contradicting yourself?
[QUOTE]My opinion towards my own compositions is that I still don't get where I want to. It's just not there yet and it's hard to realize what's missing. Ask me to write a better song than Walking Back to Waterloo by the Bee Gees and I will say that I wouldn't be able do it in a million years.
But damn... a stupid 5/6 chord rock song that barely has arrangements? Fuck, I can do better than that![/QUOTE]
Can you? Why don't you?
It's easy to see what's "missing". You think if you study lots of music you can make good songs, which isn't necessarily true. If you study a bit of harmony, you'll be able to put together some chords and notes that will always sound good together. But then, what's special about the songs? Anyone with a bit of patience can spend a couple of hours sitting behind the piano and reading a book.
A true genius will have the creativity to make the song sound special, different... Sometimes he'll even ignore a few of those "easy-to-follow" rules from the books, yet his music will be good.
You may have more technique than Page - but Page found something you still haven't found, and won't find while you keep acting so narrow minded and so stuck to rules and technical knowledge (which IS important, but not the main thing in music).
By the way, lovely song. Very interesting to hear. But still, it doesn't make me very excited to hear more from you, to learn how to play the song, to see a live performance, etc, etc. It's just a good song.
First, you say good music doesn't need to be very technical.
But then, you confess your music isn't better than his, only more difficult. Yet you keep criticising him. *rolls eyes* Will you stop contradicting yourself?
[QUOTE]My opinion towards my own compositions is that I still don't get where I want to. It's just not there yet and it's hard to realize what's missing. Ask me to write a better song than Walking Back to Waterloo by the Bee Gees and I will say that I wouldn't be able do it in a million years.
But damn... a stupid 5/6 chord rock song that barely has arrangements? Fuck, I can do better than that![/QUOTE]
Can you? Why don't you?
It's easy to see what's "missing". You think if you study lots of music you can make good songs, which isn't necessarily true. If you study a bit of harmony, you'll be able to put together some chords and notes that will always sound good together. But then, what's special about the songs? Anyone with a bit of patience can spend a couple of hours sitting behind the piano and reading a book.
A true genius will have the creativity to make the song sound special, different... Sometimes he'll even ignore a few of those "easy-to-follow" rules from the books, yet his music will be good.
You may have more technique than Page - but Page found something you still haven't found, and won't find while you keep acting so narrow minded and so stuck to rules and technical knowledge (which IS important, but not the main thing in music).
By the way, lovely song. Very interesting to hear. But still, it doesn't make me very excited to hear more from you, to learn how to play the song, to see a live performance, etc, etc. It's just a good song.
I personally find Clapton to be incredibly overated.
I mean, C'mon has this guy come out with anything that traditional blues guitarists haven't done before? The music press makes it seem as if Clapton re-invented blues.
I mean, C'mon has this guy come out with anything that traditional blues guitarists haven't done before? The music press makes it seem as if Clapton re-invented blues.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I never said my music was better than Page's. I just wonder how, if he is an amazing incredible outstanding composer, a stupid 18 year old fuck like me can write more complex stuff?[/QUOTE]
First, you say good music doesn't need to be very technical.
But then, you confess your music isn't better than his, only more difficult. Yet you keep criticising him. *rolls eyes* Will you stop contradicting yourself?
[QUOTE]My opinion towards my own compositions is that I still don't get where I want to. It's just not there yet and it's hard to realize what's missing. Ask me to write a better song than Walking Back to Waterloo by the Bee Gees and I will say that I wouldn't be able do it in a million years.
But damn... a stupid 5/6 chord rock song that barely has arrangements? Fuck, I can do better than that![/QUOTE]
Can you? Why don't you?
It's easy to see what's "missing". You think if you study lots of music you can make good songs, which isn't necessarily true. If you study a bit of harmony, you'll be able to put together some chords and notes that will always sound good together. But then, what's special about the songs? Anyone with a bit of patience can spend a couple of hours sitting behind the piano and reading a book.
A true genius will have the creativity to make the song sound special, different... Sometimes he'll even ignore a few of those "easy-to-follow" rules from the books, yet his music will be good.
You may have more technique than Page - but Page found something you still haven't found, and won't find while you keep acting so narrow minded and so stuck to rules and technical knowledge (which IS important, but not the main thing in music).
By the way, lovely song. Very interesting to hear. But still, it doesn't make me very excited to hear more from you, to learn how to play the song, to see a live performance, etc, etc. It's just a good song. [/QUOTE]
>There's a difference between not being too technical and being FUCKING BASIC. An outstanding composer should at least know how to write a remotely complex piece, even if his music is not about that.
But an idiot who can only write the most primitive stuff ever AND CAN'T EVEN FUCKING PLAY IT? Fuck off.
>Whether you liked my music or not, I really don't give a fuck. I write music for my own pleasure and amusement. But actually that particular piece I wrote for a girl and she did like it, so that's all I care about.
Your point is that you're a musical GOD and if my music is better than Page's, then you should be able to realize about that. You're just a kid and you like crap, learn to live with it.
What I say I'm missing is that special kind of melody that the bands I like have. And that you learn how to do it, it's not something that just falls from the skies as you want to believe. It's not just having the creativity but having the knowledge to do it as well.
PS: If I ever write a song as simple, primitive, repetitive and boring as any of Page's, I FUCKING SWEAR I WON'T WRITE ANOTHER SONG IN MY LIFE.
First, you say good music doesn't need to be very technical.
But then, you confess your music isn't better than his, only more difficult. Yet you keep criticising him. *rolls eyes* Will you stop contradicting yourself?
[QUOTE]My opinion towards my own compositions is that I still don't get where I want to. It's just not there yet and it's hard to realize what's missing. Ask me to write a better song than Walking Back to Waterloo by the Bee Gees and I will say that I wouldn't be able do it in a million years.
But damn... a stupid 5/6 chord rock song that barely has arrangements? Fuck, I can do better than that![/QUOTE]
Can you? Why don't you?
It's easy to see what's "missing". You think if you study lots of music you can make good songs, which isn't necessarily true. If you study a bit of harmony, you'll be able to put together some chords and notes that will always sound good together. But then, what's special about the songs? Anyone with a bit of patience can spend a couple of hours sitting behind the piano and reading a book.
A true genius will have the creativity to make the song sound special, different... Sometimes he'll even ignore a few of those "easy-to-follow" rules from the books, yet his music will be good.
You may have more technique than Page - but Page found something you still haven't found, and won't find while you keep acting so narrow minded and so stuck to rules and technical knowledge (which IS important, but not the main thing in music).
By the way, lovely song. Very interesting to hear. But still, it doesn't make me very excited to hear more from you, to learn how to play the song, to see a live performance, etc, etc. It's just a good song. [/QUOTE]
>There's a difference between not being too technical and being FUCKING BASIC. An outstanding composer should at least know how to write a remotely complex piece, even if his music is not about that.
But an idiot who can only write the most primitive stuff ever AND CAN'T EVEN FUCKING PLAY IT? Fuck off.
>Whether you liked my music or not, I really don't give a fuck. I write music for my own pleasure and amusement. But actually that particular piece I wrote for a girl and she did like it, so that's all I care about.
Your point is that you're a musical GOD and if my music is better than Page's, then you should be able to realize about that. You're just a kid and you like crap, learn to live with it.
What I say I'm missing is that special kind of melody that the bands I like have. And that you learn how to do it, it's not something that just falls from the skies as you want to believe. It's not just having the creativity but having the knowledge to do it as well.
PS: If I ever write a song as simple, primitive, repetitive and boring as any of Page's, I FUCKING SWEAR I WON'T WRITE ANOTHER SONG IN MY LIFE.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]PS: If I ever write a song as simple, primitive, repetitive and boring as any of Page's, I FUCKING SWEAR I WON'T WRITE ANOTHER SONG IN MY LIFE.[/QUOTE]
If you ever write and play something that sounds like Page, I'm buying your album. :)))))))))))
If you ever write and play something that sounds like Page, I'm buying your album. :)))))))))))
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="lime">Raf840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b>- Horsie Clarkson - wrote: [/QUOTENAME]PS: If I ever write a song as simple, primitive, repetitive and boring as any of Page's, I FUCKING SWEAR I WON'T WRITE ANOTHER SONG IN MY LIFE.[/QUOTE]
If you ever write and play something that sounds like Page, I'm buying your album. :)))))))))))[/QUOTE]
Second that
If you ever write and play something that sounds like Page, I'm buying your album. :)))))))))))[/QUOTE]
Second that
You know what I like about Jimmy Page?
He played possibly the worst ever live guitar solo (Heartbreaker, Atlantic Records gig 1988) ...
and he ROLLED UP HIS SLEEVES BEFORE DOING IT. Now that's bravado. I don't care how terrible he sounded that night, that was just the icing on the cake.
I think there's appropriate times to embrace the simple. I wrote the simplest song of my life last year, but that's the one that people remembered weeks after the gig - and I'm just a nobody. But we still get told to put that song 'out there', so to speak.
I'm only saying ; your best work will probably never be your most recognised. Learn to live with it. Having the world of music only populated by the technically proficient, the complex and the perfect, would be like having a rainbow without blue and red, or a rose without thorns.
Don't be colourblind!
He played possibly the worst ever live guitar solo (Heartbreaker, Atlantic Records gig 1988) ...
and he ROLLED UP HIS SLEEVES BEFORE DOING IT. Now that's bravado. I don't care how terrible he sounded that night, that was just the icing on the cake.
I think there's appropriate times to embrace the simple. I wrote the simplest song of my life last year, but that's the one that people remembered weeks after the gig - and I'm just a nobody. But we still get told to put that song 'out there', so to speak.
I'm only saying ; your best work will probably never be your most recognised. Learn to live with it. Having the world of music only populated by the technically proficient, the complex and the perfect, would be like having a rainbow without blue and red, or a rose without thorns.
Don't be colourblind!
JIMMY PAGE