mooghead
It is a biopic. They twist the truth and use artistic licence. Making a profit is more important than the truth. Someone here is complaining about elbow angles.
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stevendabudgie
According to Mary Austin, Freddie knew in 1985
dbrid
Hmmmm... before or after July 13, 1985 I wonder.
stevendabudgie
If the dates are right he must have known since early 1985
http://discuss.queenonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5697#p288321
His doctor advised him not to Live Aid because he had a throat infection. Didn´t he have the flu around that time and have to be coaxed into doing the Magic tour?
http://discuss.queenonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5697#p288321
His doctor advised him not to Live Aid because he had a throat infection. Didn´t he have the flu around that time and have to be coaxed into doing the Magic tour?
waunakonor
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
Someone here is complaining about elbow angles.[/QUOTE]
Come on now. Complaining about elbow angles is clearly different from complaining about a movie pretending that Freddie didn't know he had HIV when he definitely did. Quit being dense.
And just because ignoring important details is a thing that happens in biopics doesn't make this okay. We should want better instead of being totally satisfied with the half-baked crap we're getting.
Someone here is complaining about elbow angles.[/QUOTE]
Come on now. Complaining about elbow angles is clearly different from complaining about a movie pretending that Freddie didn't know he had HIV when he definitely did. Quit being dense.
And just because ignoring important details is a thing that happens in biopics doesn't make this okay. We should want better instead of being totally satisfied with the half-baked crap we're getting.
Day dop
"Freddie knew he had HIV in 1984?"
No.
No.
miraclesteinway
Well, as I said before, a friend of my family was present in the room when Freddie's blood was tested. She claimed it was about 1984-1985, and she told me the story in 2000-01 or thereabouts.
Remember, someone saying it could have been 1984-85, it could also have been 1986. People don't tend to be that exact with dates when looking back, unless perhaps arguing a point on a forum and searching google for answers to certain things. When she told me, there wasn't a smart phone in someones pocket upon which we could check the information on google... in fact smartphones hadn't become mainstream by that point and the connection was still dialup in our house....
Anyway point is, no, I can't tell you if Freddie knew before LiveAid, although our friend did recount watching LiveAid knowing he was ill and feeling heartbroken. That memory could be her watching LiveAid after the fact, or even watching it after he died, and somehow the whole thing has become conflated in her mind.
There have been comments on the forum regarding how long Freddie had been infected, but the truth is that we can't know. We can't know at what point anyone became infected, we can only know from what point someone tested to what point they developed full blown AIDS. There are articles on health websites saying that some people can enter stage 2 of the infection (the silent stage, asymptomatic stage) and remain in good health for many years, while others become ill within a matter of months. These days people are healthier for longer not just because of the medications, but because the virus itself has evolved to become weaker so that it doesn't kill the host so quickly.
Brian May said in 1991, on British TV (the interview is on youtube, Brian and Roger 1 week later, I watched it when it was being aired) that Freddie had lived with the illness for four or five years, but again, that could mean 6 or 7, or it could mean simply from the point he knew he had developed full blow AIDS.
The whole thing is very sad, we missed out on nearly 30 years of great music because of the illness, and Freddie, along with almost 40 million other people, have had their lives cut short because of it.... and it's still out there killing people right now. Let's not actually forget that.
Oh I need to not be so preachy at times.... sorry!
Remember, someone saying it could have been 1984-85, it could also have been 1986. People don't tend to be that exact with dates when looking back, unless perhaps arguing a point on a forum and searching google for answers to certain things. When she told me, there wasn't a smart phone in someones pocket upon which we could check the information on google... in fact smartphones hadn't become mainstream by that point and the connection was still dialup in our house....
Anyway point is, no, I can't tell you if Freddie knew before LiveAid, although our friend did recount watching LiveAid knowing he was ill and feeling heartbroken. That memory could be her watching LiveAid after the fact, or even watching it after he died, and somehow the whole thing has become conflated in her mind.
There have been comments on the forum regarding how long Freddie had been infected, but the truth is that we can't know. We can't know at what point anyone became infected, we can only know from what point someone tested to what point they developed full blown AIDS. There are articles on health websites saying that some people can enter stage 2 of the infection (the silent stage, asymptomatic stage) and remain in good health for many years, while others become ill within a matter of months. These days people are healthier for longer not just because of the medications, but because the virus itself has evolved to become weaker so that it doesn't kill the host so quickly.
Brian May said in 1991, on British TV (the interview is on youtube, Brian and Roger 1 week later, I watched it when it was being aired) that Freddie had lived with the illness for four or five years, but again, that could mean 6 or 7, or it could mean simply from the point he knew he had developed full blow AIDS.
The whole thing is very sad, we missed out on nearly 30 years of great music because of the illness, and Freddie, along with almost 40 million other people, have had their lives cut short because of it.... and it's still out there killing people right now. Let's not actually forget that.
Oh I need to not be so preachy at times.... sorry!
dbrid
Thanks for the great response. Certainly makes a lot of sense. More specifically I should have asked, is it likely that Brian and Roger would "bend" the timeline of Freddie's awareness to make it seem he knew before LiveAid (if in fact he did NOT know beforehand) to add drama to the movie? If so, it would seem a bit unethical to me to alter a fact for a plot point.
But as you stated, if no one is 100% clear on when exactly Freddie knew I suppose some artistic licence is acceptable.
But as you stated, if no one is 100% clear on when exactly Freddie knew I suppose some artistic licence is acceptable.
Costa86
Look, HIV was discovered in 1983 (by French scientists) and 1984 (confirmed by US scientists) - that's when they found out that AIDS is caused by a virus. Before then, nobody knew for sure what was destroying AIDS patients' immune systems.
The first HIV test became available in March 1985. It is impossible for Freddie to have "known" he had HIV before 1985. The only thing he could have known is that he might have had certain symptoms which were associated with HIV/AIDS - but we don't know if he had any such symptoms by 1984.
But in 1984 the disease inside him would not have progressed to the extent that doctors would be able to tell him "you have HIV". In the case of more advanced AIDS patients, they could tell from their symptoms that they had AIDS, and hence HIV (once it was discovered), before an HIV anti-body test became available.
miraclesteinway's story is credible, and it would have happened in 1985.
Given that by 1985:
1. Freddie had been in a high risk group for many years - homosexual with many sex partners
2. Some ex-lovers were probably sick/dying
3. He possibly had some tell-tale symptoms
It is practically 100% certain that he was tested for HIV in 1985, once a test became available. And that's when he would have started getting the first in a multitude of positive test results, which would have also included the odd false-negative.
The first HIV test became available in March 1985. It is impossible for Freddie to have "known" he had HIV before 1985. The only thing he could have known is that he might have had certain symptoms which were associated with HIV/AIDS - but we don't know if he had any such symptoms by 1984.
But in 1984 the disease inside him would not have progressed to the extent that doctors would be able to tell him "you have HIV". In the case of more advanced AIDS patients, they could tell from their symptoms that they had AIDS, and hence HIV (once it was discovered), before an HIV anti-body test became available.
miraclesteinway's story is credible, and it would have happened in 1985.
Given that by 1985:
1. Freddie had been in a high risk group for many years - homosexual with many sex partners
2. Some ex-lovers were probably sick/dying
3. He possibly had some tell-tale symptoms
It is practically 100% certain that he was tested for HIV in 1985, once a test became available. And that's when he would have started getting the first in a multitude of positive test results, which would have also included the odd false-negative.
Mustafa IbraGame
[QUOTE] [b]Costa86 wrote:[/b]
miraclesteinway's story is credible, and it would have happened in 1985.
Given that by 1985:
1. Freddie had been in a high risk group for many years - homosexual with many sex partners
2. Some ex-lovers were probably sick/dying
3. He possibly had some tell-tale symptoms
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he got throat bleeding (since the early 80's and lesions or warts in his mouth by 1984 (the latter can't be proved or disproved since only Barbara Valentin told about these growths and she is in the grave now).
And also a constant fatigue, if that cool story of anonymous fan according to what he heard on the set of IWTBF from Fred is true.
But what i hope everyone's here wants to know it's a year (and even better, a month) on which Freddie got HIV. Day is not so important as he almost surely got repeated sexual contacts on the course of some next weeks (being in New York,supposedly).
Also the timeline of living with HIV / AIDS seems quite personal, but depends on what?
Grete Rask and Gaetan Dugas lived on about ten years without practically any treatment.
And Klaus Nomi (Jobriath also) died within 5-6 years from supposed date of infection. If the first, of course, hadn't catch the virus while still living in his native Austria in first half of 70's.
miraclesteinway's story is credible, and it would have happened in 1985.
Given that by 1985:
1. Freddie had been in a high risk group for many years - homosexual with many sex partners
2. Some ex-lovers were probably sick/dying
3. He possibly had some tell-tale symptoms
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he got throat bleeding (since the early 80's and lesions or warts in his mouth by 1984 (the latter can't be proved or disproved since only Barbara Valentin told about these growths and she is in the grave now).
And also a constant fatigue, if that cool story of anonymous fan according to what he heard on the set of IWTBF from Fred is true.
But what i hope everyone's here wants to know it's a year (and even better, a month) on which Freddie got HIV. Day is not so important as he almost surely got repeated sexual contacts on the course of some next weeks (being in New York,supposedly).
Also the timeline of living with HIV / AIDS seems quite personal, but depends on what?
Grete Rask and Gaetan Dugas lived on about ten years without practically any treatment.
And Klaus Nomi (Jobriath also) died within 5-6 years from supposed date of infection. If the first, of course, hadn't catch the virus while still living in his native Austria in first half of 70's.
Invisible Woman
I don't believe it.
I can't believe that someone knows something so seriously and hide that from the people in house and from his partner.
And the other thing, when he got the results of that alleged test in 1984, 1985 or 1986, didn't one of the doctors tell him that he must use protection, because without protection can endanger another person?
Surely doctors not failed to tell this fact to him.
I don't think that he was such a person who would consciously spread the virus to other people, maybe I'm stupid but I don't believe it.
He must have suspected something but I don't believe that he knew it before 1987.
I can't believe that someone knows something so seriously and hide that from the people in house and from his partner.
And the other thing, when he got the results of that alleged test in 1984, 1985 or 1986, didn't one of the doctors tell him that he must use protection, because without protection can endanger another person?
Surely doctors not failed to tell this fact to him.
I don't think that he was such a person who would consciously spread the virus to other people, maybe I'm stupid but I don't believe it.
He must have suspected something but I don't believe that he knew it before 1987.
Mustafa IbraGame
[QUOTE] [b]Invisible Woman wrote:[/b]
And the other thing, when he got the results of that alleged test in 1984, 1985 or 1986, didn't one of the doctors tell him that he must use protection, because without protection can endanger another person?
[/QUOTE]
Even told so, he may behave selfish or self-denial to the disease. And don't forget that Hiv/Aids wasn't studied well at those times.
In 1985-86 it was supposed in medical circles that only 5 to 20% of people with HIV will develop a full blown AIDS.
he may thought of himself being out this percentage...
And the other thing, when he got the results of that alleged test in 1984, 1985 or 1986, didn't one of the doctors tell him that he must use protection, because without protection can endanger another person?
[/QUOTE]
Even told so, he may behave selfish or self-denial to the disease. And don't forget that Hiv/Aids wasn't studied well at those times.
In 1985-86 it was supposed in medical circles that only 5 to 20% of people with HIV will develop a full blown AIDS.
he may thought of himself being out this percentage...
Costa86
It's probably best not to enter into moralistic considerations when it comes to mega rockstars in the 1970s and 80s. They were different times, different societal norms, etc.
If we enter too deeply into Freddie Mercury's behaviour off stage - such as trying to understand whether he did or didn't practice safe sex after knowing he had HIV - I'm sure some of us will find things they are not comfortable with. I think it's pointless to delve into that. We can't understand it fully now, living in 2018 and knowing what we know about illness, society, etc.
If we enter too deeply into Freddie Mercury's behaviour off stage - such as trying to understand whether he did or didn't practice safe sex after knowing he had HIV - I'm sure some of us will find things they are not comfortable with. I think it's pointless to delve into that. We can't understand it fully now, living in 2018 and knowing what we know about illness, society, etc.
Saint Jiub
"It's probably best not to enter into moralistic considerations ... They were different times, different societal norms, etc."
I drove a Volkswagon in the 70's when I was a teenager. My dad and mom both owned Volkswagons. Therefore, I am a Nazi and a "clean diesel" polluter.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/volkswagen-is-founded
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/opinion/sunday/the-dirty-truth-about-clean-diesel.html
I drove a Volkswagon in the 70's when I was a teenager. My dad and mom both owned Volkswagons. Therefore, I am a Nazi and a "clean diesel" polluter.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/volkswagen-is-founded
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/opinion/sunday/the-dirty-truth-about-clean-diesel.html
Costa86
"70s" not "70's".
"70's" means "of the 70s".
One of my pet peeves.
"70's" means "of the 70s".
One of my pet peeves.