hotspace vs thriller

OK, I'll show my age and say that I remember when both of those albums came out. Brian's memory may differ, but here's how I saw it shake out:

Hot Space is released and the first single is Body Language. A song with a silly synth bass line, no groove, a weird video, and Freddie trying way too hard on vocals (the background breathing and moaning speak for themselves). The album tanks by Queen standards and no one is really interested in a follow up single of this record.

A couple of years later, Thriller is released and the lead single is Bille Jean. A killer drum beat that is perfectly in  the pocket (Queen's closest is AOBTD), great vocals and a dance video that changed the world. More great singles and videos followed, and history was made.

There is no comparison. I don't know about the MJ quote about Hot Space, and I'd love to see the reference. But the fact is, it was a hell of a lot more than timing. I'm not an MJ fan, but he and Quincy Jones turned the music industry on its ear. Hot Space shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Thriller.

Agreed, and for point of reference, the first single was The Girl is Mine, and at the time, the album looked like a moderate hit.  Then Billie Jean was released and it exploded.  I love Queen but must say that if there is a link musically (one act trying to do dance from a funk POV, the other reversed) it comes during Beat It with heavy guitars.  otherwise, can't see the influence at all.

I do think Hot Space is enjoyable but can't be compared to what Thriller was at the time...the music it's just brillant.
I thhink what Brian was trying to say is (what he already had said at the time HS was released) is that the idea of Hot Space was good, but the result was bad. The funk music was hitting in that time and it was not so crazy to give it a try: why not? If Queen had always gambled...remember Bo Rhap? The difference between those gambles was that one was fully worked in order to succed...and the other, well. I think the guys had an idea but they were too tired of Queen to work it out properly. You can't just blame the timing, Brian has to recognize that they didn't work on Hot Space as they should have. I wonder what would've happened if the did. Hot Space could be a killer album by now.

I think Brian might be slightly over egging the pudding here, however I am sure that if Jackson had met with them at any point he would have been full of hollow compliments about how much they influenced him, that was the type of guy he was. The truth is he went his own way and was far more influenced by the likes of Motown and groups like Chic then he ever was by Queen.

I wonder if he was asked to come to the Freddie tribute??

In term of musicianship, Hot Space is WAY below Thriller. There's no (or little) feeling in song interpretation, the mixing of acoustic and synthetic parts is approximative and the global level of production is quite perfectible. In Thrillers you've got KILLERS like Quincy of Greg Philinganes, with decades of experience in how to arrange R&B music. Queen had Mack... They should have payed the full price and get Giorgio Moroder on board !

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[b]Mr Prime Jive wrote: [/b]

In term of musicianship, Hot Space is WAY below Thriller. There's no (or little) feeling in song interpretation, the mixing of acoustic and synthetic parts is approximative and the global level of production is quite perfectible. In Thrillers you've got KILLERS like Quincy of Greg Philinganes, with decades of experience in how to arrange R&B music. Queen had Mack... They should have payed the full price and get Giorgio Moroder on board !
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Well said - that's exactly the point - Mack's history was Deep Purple, ELO, Zeppelin etc - on that level Queen were atypically half-hearted

It has to be said tho, that many established bands did flounder in the early 80's - Rush and the Stones  prime examples- too much technology came on stream in a short time for bands to absorb or dismiss

As well as that, the quality control was slipping - perhaps if RTB had been around he would have curbed the whole foray into R+B and TOLD them to focus on their core talents - and write better songs!!

OMG! Thriller is great! It was a breakthrough! I think it`s greater.

My friend Hernan (I'd written Marcelo earlier - damn Alzheimer's!) just sent me this link:[url=http://www.elperiodicoextremadura.com:80/noticias/noticia.asp?pkid=341044][url=http://www.elperiodicoextremadura.com:80/noticias/noticia.asp?pkid=341044%5B/url] http://www.elperiodicoextremadura.com/noticias/noticia.asp?pkid=341044[/url[/url]], an article (in Spanish) about 'Thriller' written two years ago. A rough translation of the important bit (for us):

'Michael Jackson has recently acknowledged that Tchaikovsky's 'Nutcracker' was one of his muses when it came to piecing 'Thriller' together. It was "a work where each song was ace", he claims. But Queen's 'Hot Space' was even more present during the recording.'

I don't wanna look like a bad loser, but I'm not denying 'HS' influenced 'Thriller'. My point remains: from that to 'without "Hot Space" there'd be no "Thriller"' there are light millennia... just like from Fred (most likely) knowing about, and respecting, Paul Rodgers, to having him as his favourite singer, there are also light millennia.

And it still doesn't change the fact that there's a hell of a lot more that made 'Thriller' a success and 'Hot Space' a flop besides [i]timing[/i]. Simply put, 'Thriller' is brill (and I'm not saying that because of Michael's untimely demise), 'Hot Space' is crap.

Thanks for the reference, Sebastian! Not a "poor loser at all", but a guy with a great memory.

I don't see the resemblance, but the Nutcracker is even more of a stretch - except for the high vocals!

This said, listen back to back to "Staying Power" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" and you'll discover that they're virtually the same songs : two openers, close key, similar beat, similar horn arrangements, fast singing of small lines... live versions are even closer !

The difference is just that one is sheer brilliance and the other is average white funk... Imagine Hot Space with a good production team !

I don't think production's the problem in 'Hot Space'. Writing was sub-par and performance was mediocre. Live versions showed the band could rock those songs; why didn't they make the same effort when recording? Also, as it's been commented, Fred's voice was marvellous at the time - so why waste it with shit like [i]Body Language[/i] instead of writing some tunes that could exhibit his skills better?

Michael's voice, OTOH, shines all the way through 'Thriller', especially in the title track.

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[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]

Live versions showed the band could rock those songs; [b]why didn't they make the same effort when recording[/b]?
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Yep... you tell 'em... good for nothing lazy swines!!!

If only they had someone like you there for guidance in the studio... then they may have actually made some better material for us to listen too.

Their loss!!!

They didn't need someone like me (or anybody else for that matter) to guide them. They were good enough to make masterpieces by themselves, like 'A Day at the Races' or 'News of the World'.

But for 'Hot Space' they went for 1% (at most!) of their skills. Waste of time, space and money.

that's your opinion sebastian.  hot space wasn't great, but it was still a decent enough album.   Too say a waste of time and money is a stupid thing to say.