I’d never apply for a job defined by market-generated values which induce conformity and uniformity. I would never dream of applying for a job in this store. But, yes, I do make a point of being able not to wear a veil, but to dress myself in a way that I feel comfortable about and still be allowed to teach. I’d even accept people monitoring my classes, I wouldn’t mind – the issue is that there’s a point where the state starts to demand you to abandon so much of your tradition that you feel humiliated. There “were”, well, there still are, but there were times when, well, BLACKS were not really considered a good option to serve WHITE-COLLAR costumers. Is there AN ECONOMIC LOGIC ABOUT THAT? Yup. Is it still racist? Oh, yeah. Is it absolutely logical, economically speaking, TO INVADE IRAQ or being prejudicial about BLACKS? Of course! Sometimes the market demands exactly that – a certain degree of prejudice.
There’s no imperialism without two things: racism and xenophobia. It’s never happened. It probably never will. As YourValentine said: you'll be searched for looking like a Muslim. This is prejudice, of course. People feel safer because they regard it as a security measure. Fair play. But there's a generelization at play which follows the very same logic of racism. Fair play...racism and prejudice is in our everyday lives, not only in state actions. It's hard to think that such things will ever be effaced from society.
Do I think this is the ideal? Again, I don’t. Is this how the world works? As I said, yes. I don’t bang my head against the wall. But I try to stand up for rights I believe I have in certain circumstances. And my fight is a peaceful, legal one, not an armed struggle.
Notice that arrogance is not the same as making simple value judgments. You make the latter all the time. Everybody does. The way I express certain discomforts in my personal life takes on the shape of my cultural formation: in school, as a student, many times, or most often, I don’t have the option of simply getting away from people I don’t want to be with because they are either disrespecting me or being incredibly gross and rude, capable of a secular sexism which is far beyond anything I experience in my religious community.
Then, and only then, and not SOLELY for this reason, I use a veil sometimes, not as an act of arrogance, but as a result of a judgment I’m entitled to make, and the kind of which we can’t avoid if we want to even get up in the morning. I don’t have to read Hume or Kant to understand that we operate by doing all kinds of judgments involving facts and values. The way we express them, as long as it’s peaceful, should not be banned from the public sphere, to my mind. And, yes, we do feel shame for other people – it’s a common, natural, human emotion which we express in a lot of different ways. Mine is not worse than someone simply leaving the place without saying a word; I may have the right to be in that place and, still, not want people to see my face. They have PLENTY of things to look at.
This is not arrogance. These are situations where a woman, especially in very sexist cultures, as Brazil is in many ways, just wants to keep enjoying her rights without feeling utterly uncomfortable.
The veil has other significances in my culture. I make rituals of purification – I don’t feel at ease about going out showing my face in the case I haven’t gone through them.
But one thing I’d never think about doing: THINKING THAT THE VEIL, BY ITSELF, IS A SOLUTION FOR MY PROBLEMS. No – if I act badly or wrongly, I don’t cover it all with a veil: I actually try to improve my behavior and be more gentle, patient, kind or whatever it is that triggered my error. That’s, again, what my religion and my elementary morals demand of me: the only difference is that I sometimes put a veil to feel comfortable about myself and in my relation to…God – I’m religious. I do think God exists. Do religious Jews are stimulated to talk about their religion? Not at all! On the contrary: hassidim are always advised to respect other people’s rights, and their sacred right to their own personalities and histories, and try to be as holy as possible WITHIN YOURSELF; and also by trying to do good in the world, including in our everyday lives.
This is my religion. So, when people equate me, in some way, with Bush or Bin Laden, why shouldn’t I take that for what it is – PREJUDICE? A generalization which results in prejudice.
If the prejudice is embedded in a culture – like in the shop you mentioned – there’s nothing much one can do about it.
Ultimately, I think, as I just said, that people are just terribly afraid because, for one thing, they’re not very sure about their own values after so many years of wars, clever shifts in the ways of domination and exploitation, and so on.
YourValentine put it really well when she said that many Germans are still haunted by the Nazi heritage. It’s a heritage that brings shame and doubts about one’s own culture, even if the German, as most Germans, are opposed to Nazis as fiercely as a Holocaust survivor would be.
My point again: I DON’T DEMAND PEOPLE TO LOVE ME. I want to be accorded the same rights as other people – I think it is very unreasonable to deny me the right of teaching because of religious symbols, when I know perfectly well that the neutral point is often the authoritarian point. Do I go out of my mind about it? No! I look for jobs I can do, just the one I have now. For instance: I do work in a department of science. No one demands me to wear “neutral clothes” – why? Because that’s how a department of science works…it doesn’t matter a jot to people how I’m dressed as long as I can do the job. There are young people who work with computers who go to work wearing shorts and T-shirt and piercing and tattoo: do THEY COMPLAIN AGAINST ME? NO! Not at all. We get together really fine. Do I think they’re doing something wrong? Not at all, again.
So, in the store you mentioned, I’d be highly unwelcomed, for sure; in a Physics department, not so – I’ve already studied abroad, and I’m asked to return, and the question about dressing never came up.
This is all I’m saying. That’s the way the world goes round. Each one tries to make his or her living taking advantage of his or her qualities and trying to circumvent his/her negative points.
Most people are out there to live a peaceful and decent life. We follow our own, very peculiar ways, because, well, we’re different. And as long as we all try to do it peacefully and respectfully, then fine.
People who break the law should be punished. And when the State breaks the law, which happens quite often, it has to be held accountable to citizens – either because it fostered or promoted prejudice, injustice, harm, humiliation or destitution.
I fight for mine. I have been reasonably successful as far as the U.S, the country you live in, is concerned. There seems to be a positive exchange: I work and abide by the rules, people respect the way I dress.
Most of the time in New York people don’t even notice the way I’m dressed. It’s not an issue. They’re too busy leading their own lives.
In Europe, well, that’s not exactly so, even if, as anyone else, I want ENTER A SHOP AS COSTUMER, not asking for a job.
I could make a huge fuss about the way I was treated in FNAC at Les Halles once. I don’t. I don’t like victimizing.
I know there’s prejudice. I know there are tons of rationals for it. I do my best to overcome these barriers.
Nice discussion. Looking forward to read more about it from you guys, even if I may not have the time to answer anything. I'm past the time I should have left already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers you all, great topic.
