The Miracle Bonus EP revision!

Why else would they do it? 

If it were about simply making money off the anthology boxed sets, they would have done it already. If they have so much material as we insist they have sitting in the vault, why not gouge us by putting out the studio material, then live material, then the complete videos, then interviews, then documentaries. The excuse that it's just for the money makes little sense when we consider that repackaging the 2011 remasters takes about as much time as dumping the unaltered outtakes and demos onto CDs, photoshopping a sleeve together and putting it out just to get a quick buck, which is what fans are accusing the 2011 remasters of being. 

Can fans have the argument both ways, that Queen don't care about anything but the money because of what they don't do (issue the anthologies), when what they don't do is missing opportunities to make money whether they care or not? We're drifting close to Catch-22 territory here.

Eh?

[Amanda puts sarcasm-mode on] "yes of course we shouldnt complain on what they offer us here now"
with these shitty new repackaged re-re-remastered albums + bonus tracks wich we pay good money for
I mean ..... its us complaining and our money but its their material and their dying legacy ....how dare we !!!!

*sarcasm smile*

saddened :(

The argument:

"...Queen don't care about fans;
Because Queen only wants our money;
Therefore they only put out what will make a quick buck;
They're not putting out the stuff that would make money (the anthologies);
Therefore Queen don't care about fans;
Yet, Queen only want our money;
They only put out stuff to make a quick buck;
They're not putting out the stuff that would make money..."

See where this is going?

Hello fellow Zoners, let me add my thought, first of all, I'm a reader and not a poster, so be gentle.
The complete disappointment with te re-issues is that Island basically made the same mistake as Hollywood made 20 years ago. The re-issues done by HR were a complete miss, dreadful remixes, in other words no respect for the real Queen legacy, namely their stunning music. Now EMI never ever did something right with the complete catalogue, and they hád the chance, more than often. Of course I can understand that Island Records want the have all the Queen albums on the market, the music is still the verhicle. But to mark the occassion of 40 years of Queen, Island or whoever was respsonsible for compiling the bonus albums made a horrible mistake. Examples? Many, it is so unlogical to put a live version of In The lap Of The Gods for 1986 it is for it feeling of time, recoding feeling I mean complete out of place, the better could have opted for a 1974 live version, this in the case they wanted a live version of the latter and they wanted it. But an 1986 version is a big, big mistake. In the case of booklets, not that interessting, no extra information of recordingdates, some pictures are stunning. I've been a fan since 1974 and even for me some pictures are completely new. In the case of Sheer Heart Attack there is more unreleased stuff, remember the conventions? And this goes not only for Sheer Heart Attack, this goes for all albums. Look at Hot Space, no extended versions, is this because Roger really hates Hot Space that intense? The Works is a disappointment top notch, we are still awaiting to see the extended versions of KPTOW for the first time on the silver disc, actually there are more extended versions who haven't been released officially on CD, forget the K-Tel release from 1992, this is an album which is far from competed nor interesting. Island had two options released the albums as single discs, but did would not have a big appeal. Or issued the albums completed, so with the orginal album compete and as second disc complete with the official material there is, by official I mean the extended versions, the 12 inch mixes, why stop at 6 or 7 tracks. For me it was nice to finally have a clear remasterd version of the extended version of One Year Of love, or the first draft of Heaven For Everyone which orginates form the 1985/1986 sessions. Filling the bonus disc with live versions to reach the 5 or 6 or 7 tracks is strange choice and make in my humble opinion no sense, and if it's done as teaser for the live albums than still I can't understand it. I know there is so much more to offer.
Sorry, but I have the feeling that the albums are a mish mash, here and there some interesting tracks, but oh so inlogical with an occassional Beeb track. This gives the die- hard ( like me, and I think you also) the feeling that there is a bit of a feeling that this is a rip off. Were the albums as double crammed with the bonustracks as aformentiond the whole concept would have been cheered here. Island is following in Hollywood Records footsteps, making quick money and thinking that the Queen fans are a happy lot because there is a batch of CD'S out with some nice bonustracks ahum. I've seen better re-issues, even ABC Lexicon of Love is a better re-releases than Queen ever produced. Looking at the releases of 40 years Queen this is a bit lame and a bit tame. I for one had high hopes, finally The Works album with all the extended versions foor the first time compiled on a CD, well maybe in then years time, and then I'll be 58...............
Want to discuss lavish boxsets? Or a complete Beeb Album...............
Nah, this is enough for me and maybe enough for you to read my thoughrs.

With regards, Tom

rhyeking wrote: If you feel that way, Tero, I can't say I blame Queen for not wanting to reward such an attitude by giving you previously unreleased material. 

They provided you their art. You want more and are annoyed that they are not obliging. Not giving you what you want, however, does not preclude them from continuing to make available the previously issued material in new packaging.
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Let me get this straight.
The band owes us absolutely nothing because they were kind enough to release their music in the first place, and in return we owe them our unquestionable support regardless of what they do? And the band has no obligation to listen to anything we say or ask of them, but they should stop releasing everything the minute somebody dares to criticise them?

I can see why GT likes your opinions... Queen Productions definitely needs more yes-men. ;-D

Ren Sen wrote: [Amanda puts sarcasm-mode on] "yes of course we shouldnt complain on what they offer us here now"
with these shitty new repackaged re-re-remastered albums + bonus tracks wich we pay good money for
I mean ..... its us complaining and our money but its their material and their dying legacy ....how dare we !!!!

*sarcasm smile*

saddened :(
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Their legacy is not dying because they've stopped giving you new material or the material your desperately want. 

The only thing I see dying is the collector's interest in padding their archive so that they can successfully say "Yes, I now have everything! I hate half of it, but I have it and that's what counts."

rhyeking wrote: Who are these 2 disc sets directed at, one asks?

The 2011 remasters are meant to update all existing editions previously issued by other distributors. That's what seems to either be misunderstood or conveniently ignored by the fans who only want unreleased material. Universal and Island are setting these 2011 remasters as the standard editions to be on the shelf worldwide, whether you're in the UK or Canada or Brazil or wherever.  QPL are establishing that all previous remasters and editions are now obsolete in terms of what will be sold in stores and online.

What this means is that as new fans buy the albums, it'll be the same everywhere. There are still old editions on the shelves, but that is an issue at store level (they own the stock and will still sell it unless QPL issues a recall and pays them for the unsold copies). Once the old editions are sold out, the 2011 series will continue to be available until such time as catalogue is updated again, which is when the new edition replaces the old edition.

The Bonus EP is an incentive to get a little extra if you're interested enough in buying the CD. Queen, QPL, and Universal know full well that not every fan will rush out to get these in order to get a few bonus tracks. However, some will and they'll be new fans and old fans alike. For me, they were pretty much the deciding factor in updating to the 2011s from HR 1991s (I'm going to hold onto my previous ones as well, though).

And that brings us (again...[sigh]) to heart of the matter, which is that when some seasoned fans feel slighted, they see everything that does not serve their needs as useless or stupid. You want a boxed set of outtakes and demos, but it's silly to accuse a release for not being something it was never intended to be. 

Is the boxed set coming? I have no idea. I hope so.

Should it have been issued already? It certainly would have been nice, but there's no timeline for these things. All I know is it was talked about around the time of the FM boxed set, but a lot has happened since then.

Should Queen listen to the fans? Honestly, no. It's nice when they do special things for us, but ultimately (and correctly) they must retain artistic control over their output. Fan-dictated creative choices represent the ultimate loss of integrity. That said, Queen are likely well aware that we want to hear what's in the vault and may or may not ever oblige us. It's up to them. And they are not beholden to us. Our right lies in accepting or rejecting what they offer.

If Queen's unreleased material is all that now interests a fan, to the exclusion of the new material they have put out or may record and release in the future, I think that fan ought to consider whether Queen's continued artistic relevance in his or her life isn't being over-ridden by the fan's sense of possessiveness and/or entitlement (or, at worst, by their own selfishness).

Couldn't fucking agree more...well put my friend! I, like everyone else would love to hear some 'archive' stuff, but they don't have to do shit. They really don't...

Tero! wrote: rhyeking wrote: If you feel that way, Tero, I can't say I blame Queen for not wanting to reward such an attitude by giving you previously unreleased material. 

They provided you their art. You want more and are annoyed that they are not obliging. Not giving you what you want, however, does not preclude them from continuing to make available the previously issued material in new packaging.
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Let me get this straight.
The band owes us absolutely nothing because they were kind enough to release their music in the first place, and in return we owe them our unquestionable support regardless of what they do? And the band has no obligation to listen to anything we say or ask of them, but they should stop releasing everything the minute somebody dares to criticise them?

I can see why GT likes your opinions... Queen Productions definitely needs more yes-men. ;-D

++++++++++++++++++++++

As I've said, numerous times, criticize until you're blue in the face, but don't expect it to help your cause in getting what you want.

And I'll repeat my position that the band should not be dictated to by the fans on any creative output, including the release of older demos and outtakes. You see it purely as business, supply and demand, and insist that Queen must be in it for the money as well, yet the sheer absence of any kind of anthology on which they could make money must point to a different reason. I don't know why they haven't released any such set (I'm guessing they lost interest in light of newer projects) and I would for love them to do so. Yet, it must be their choice. Why is respecting that choice so hard for people? It's not about accepting everything unconditionally, but understanding that the different releases serve different purposes. Some may succeed and some may fail, but it's not about serving the interests of the seasoned fans. We've come this far because we love the music. When did that stop being enough, that we issue the ultimatum "give us more or you suck"?

I'm not here to shill anything Queen puts out. They've released stuff I haven't bought (the Singles Boxes) because the content didn't interest me, the price tag was high and like many here, I believe it was a missed opportunity to include more unique versions over the standard album versions. I said my piece and moved on. If I'm advocating anything now, it's maybe some relative perspective. There are so many stark, black and white views expressed, it seems people fail to see or simply ignore details that don't reinforce their beliefs. I'll happy remind the thread that there may be some grey they're overlooking.

Case in point, the 1991 HR remasters. It's easy to say, "Yeah, the remixes sucked, what were they thinking?" when in fact, HR should be applauded for the massive promotional push they made in the early '90s when they acquired the catalogue. The remixes were only a part of that campaign and if they failed, it was a valiant (if misguided) attempt to break into other markets.

Oh cool. We got DELUXE bonus CD with 1  demo track (of released song) and 6 tracks released  long time ago. DELUXE, ha?

Basically...the die-hards will simply never be happy unless QPL put out the Anthology...but even after that gets put out, then what's next? Freddie's ashes? Brian and Roger's testicles on a stick? Gimme a fuckin break people. I've been on this forum for years, and it's just more of the same shit...it's plain and simple greed. I realize 98% of you are going to sit here and thrash me for saying this and I could really give a fuck...but believe me when I say Rhyeking has a solid point when he's saying that most of you are unappreciative. They don't owe anybody a damn thing. If you like what they are releasing, great...if you don't, let it go, and don't buy it. It's fucking simple!

rhyeking wrote: To Grateful Fan: 

You ask whether or not it's a "product" and if that gives you leave to complain about it. I suspect you already know the answer. The question does not address the two principles at work, the art itself and its presentation. A CD of music is not one thing, like box of laundry detergent. It is the medium and it is art. The one is the vehicle for the other. Complain all you want about it if the medium fails and analyse the art to your heart's content. 

If the release was never intended to address a specific artistic or commercial direction, what do we hope to learn by complaining that it fails to accomplish either?

============================

Laundry detergent is not one thing.  It's a cardboard vessel, which is the medium, and an alabaster ocean of expectation in which Gen Xers once liberated from the washboard  are now drowning, held under by bourgeois dreams of immaculate domestic perfection peddled by shark eyed executives on Madison Avenue. Or, thinking about it harder just now, maybe it's just a box of f*&Ing soap.  A product offered in exchange for money, JUST LIKE A MUSIC CD.

It's beyond silly to say that people shouldn't complain or be disappointed or that music for sale has it's own special rules.  There must be better ways to spend an afternoon than arguing a ridiculous position that honestly appears to exist solely as another opportunity for pointless supercilious contrarianism. There's certainly nothing wrong with advocating for the band, disagreeing with critics, or reminding people of the business realities of the music business.  It's when you undermine perfectly reasonable disappointment and annoyance relating to Queen product past and present by casting it as 'entitlement' and 'selfishness' and other denigrating nonsense that you utterly jump the shark.  It's a product offered for sale, and like other products offered for sale consumers will always have the right to find it too hot, or too cold, not yellow enough, too long, wholly unsatisfying, entirely too polka dotted or what the hell ever.

The relationship with this particular type of  product can be complex and even emotional, and you should be giving fans more latitude and empathy for their feelings, not less.  Everybody recognizes that virtually all the power exists with the band and it's management.  The rest of us have only the power to buy or not to buy, as you noted, and the power to complain (whether they buy or not), the latter being a basic and longstanding marketplace mechanism you'd like people to surrender or at least question in this case, for some impenetrable reason.

Jim Beach is on record as saying he doesn;t want to "flood the market" with Queen products, hence the only occasional reissue to ensure a profitable income (in his view). And as stated previously and ignored by the usual suspects, Queen operate now on the principle of least effort for highest profit. (That's not something they've put on record, but simply my conclusion based on observing what they've released over the last decade.) Finally, Brian May is clearly some kind of weird control freak/perfectionist, which means anything that doesn't meet his "blue ray" standards, or anything which isn't played or sung perfectly, won't be released in case it hurts the Queen brand i.e. a CD your granny can buy you for Xmas knowing it won't immediately be thrown in the bin. Queen CDs are therefore the musical equivalent of a Black and Decker cordless drill. Or a Toblerone. Or a golf umbrella. Or a Stephen King book. Or a dvd of Jurassic Park. Or that movie where everyone was wearing lily pads on their feet to walk on water between the hulks of abandoned ships in a dystopian future. What was that called again? Maybe I dreamt it. Seriously, I watched that one night and it's haunted me ever since. Can't find it in IMDB or any film reference book. I've tried asking online film forums but no one has heard of it. Same with another movie about a giant fish in a cave. Pretty sure that one's real as well and I didn't dream it. Still, I am getting on a bit now and it's harder to tell dreams from memories. Anyway, happy to have cleared up why Queen won't release anything interesting, and if anyone knows the name of those films or has had the same dream as I have then get in touch.

I'm glad that everyone is digging out quotes from Queen or their management. It just shows that while these have satisfied some people they have fallen short of meeting the standard critera of a rock reissue.

Even when Bowie's stuff came out in 1999 shorn of its previous bonus material it was figured as a good move as it set up the market for complete anniversary issues etc (which begun in 2002). With Queen this has ended up as the result of a huge boardroom struggle to ensure the remaining Queen parties are happy but with little regard for the Queen legacy. I would rather a complete issue of The miracle but the press release mentions that brian or Roger cringes at some of the 12" mixes that are included, in the same way they ruined the GH2 DVD by refusing to comment on certain videos. Like children. The Queen archivists that post on here were required to advise and give a second opinion. But they didn't. Probably in the same way I wouldn't want to unset the applecart if I worked for them. And we're left with a ruined Queen backcatalogue, like we were in '91, 93/94 etc.

And while i'm at it, why ruin the GH1 remaster by mentioning Robbie Williams and Five? I doubt you'll be getting new fans anymore, like I was when GH1 came out the first time around.

Correct me if i I'm wrong, but the whole concept of the re-issues are a pile of shit? Incorrect decisions as it comes to fill the bonus CD with live tracks, for what purpose? If they, and I don't care who they really are wanted to release an interesting CD, all they had to do is stick to the concept, release an extra CD with unreleased material, release the extended versions from that period, stick to the basics. A live version from a track from 1986 on a 1974 re-issue is clearly missing a big point. The lack of putting out tracks which rightfully belong on a CD as an extra track is so blattant. There is no sign or even a hint that there will be a proper boxset as which was promised back in 1995 - by EMI back then. There is no sign of a real BBC album. Here and there an BBC track so your catalogue is still incomplete is not very impressive. Not wanted to flood the market was indeed said by Jim Beach, but what they did was release Made In Heaven singles with the occasional Beeb tracks, with the underlined famous words, taken from the forthcoming album Queen At The BBC, which was withdrawn. In the same periode Queen flooded the market with another Greatest Hits and a Queen Rocks and the needless singles. Still they managed to flood the market. Island Records has been given the golden opportunity to do it right this time, they didn't. Maybe they could have opted to hire the knowledge of Simon Duckett in mine opinion one of the few real Queen archivist. Now they have missed the boat big time and just like EMI did is the whole Queen concept nothing more than a milcow, whio can't deliver any fresh milk.