Queen "Elite!".

BUT hey, I still think they have the right to do as they please, and I respect the effort and investigating they must have went too get this material. It must have taken a lot of patience and time, but they should have kept this material to themselves, they had no rights of distribution, and I'm not talking about bootlegs... some shitty sounding concert from 1984 wont make them think twice, but the BBC Masters, the demos, only QPL have the right to decide if these should have surfaced... not an elite group. If they wanted to give something back, share EVERYTHING. That way they wont be so elite or secretive

"Yes, that's what I wrote. The criminals who STEAL tapes from the band can only SELL them on the (black) market, they can't be "TRADED"
No they don’t get traded at first, they are sold, but are you seriously saying if a collector heard of a rare track for sale somewhere he/she wouldn't try to buy it....come on get real.
My point at the very start of this was the FACT the a good proportion of this rare stuff finds its way one way or another into collectors hands after initially being liberated from its rightful owner...this has been denied by John, but clearly that is rubbish, there are hundreds of news articles demonstrating my point.
I am not talking about white labels or rare/limited edition pressings, but stolen copies of multitrack tapes, 1/4 inch mix downs etc.
Of course traders trade dozens of white labels etc. that has never been my point, but I am staggered by intelligent people here claiming theft doesn’t happen and it will never find it's way to collector hands that way...err sorry but documented history says otherwise.

9 pages in 6 days or so.. Not bad

[QUOTE] [b]4 x Vision wrote:[/b]
BUT hey, I still think they have the right to do as they please, and I respect the effort and investigating they must have went too get this material. It must have taken a lot of patience and time, but they should have kept this material to themselves, they had no rights of distribution, and I'm not talking about bootlegs... some shitty sounding concert from 1984 wont make them think twice, but the BBC Masters, the demos, only QPL have the right to decide if these should have surfaced... not an elite group. If they wanted to give something back, share EVERYTHING. That way they wont be so elite or secretive [/QUOTE]

I find contradictions in this post:

1.  You say they should have kept the material to themselves, they had no rights of distribution but you ask them to share everything.

2. You say that only QPL have the right to decide if these should have surfaced but you ask them to share everything.

I sense a slant in many other posts to put the group on the defensive to pressurize them to share everything.  The crux of the resentment is jealousy that they possess something the rest do not have.  People keep questioning the legal right of ownership and yet the underlying pressure is for the group to share everything.

I don't understand how people can think that they are too smart to go about getting all these music but when other people do it, they owe the community a favour to share it.

Some good points here. Ultimately i agree with you that the rare studio demos, multis, videos, etc all come from a source who has stolen them (99% of the time anyway), and anyone that claims otherwise is kidding themselves for a clear conscience.

I'm surprised with Holly233's claim that they are similar in nature to QPL.... MAYBE there is a strong possibility in their heads that they believe that they are? Even Robin Hood was ultimately a thief, no mattter how good his intentions though!

These guys have contributed to the lack of "juicy" releases, not Queen Productions or the band, BUT the thieves and those who managed to pay for them and decide to distrubute them across the internet for tom dick and harry to get for £0. Sadly, all of us who have watched or listened to them are equally to blame though.

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]4 x Vision wrote:[/b]BUT hey, I still think they have the right to do as they please, and I respect the effort and investigating they must have went too get this material. It must have taken a lot of patience and time, but they should have kept this material to themselves, they had no rights of distribution, and I'm not talking about bootlegs... some shitty sounding concert from 1984 wont make them think twice, but the BBC Masters, the demos, only QPL have the right to decide if these should have surfaced... not an elite group. If they wanted to give something back, share EVERYTHING. That way they wont be so elite or secretive [/QUOTE]I find contradictions in this post:1.  You say they should have kept the material to themselves, they had no rights of distribution but you ask them to share everything.2. You say that only QPL have the right to decide if these should have surface but you ask them to share everything.I sense a slant in many other posts to put the group on the defensive to pressurize them to share everything.  The crux of the resentment is jealously that they possess something the rest do not have.  People keep questioning the legal right of ownership and yet the underlying pressure is for the group to share everything.I don't understand how people can think that they are too smart to go about getting all these music but when other people do it, they owe the community a favour to share it.[/QUOTE]


No I haven't contradicted myself, I'd be a bit stupid if I said they had no rights to release it and then tell them to release everything.

My point is that they had no right to pick and choose what they distributed IF their intentions were noble. If they wanted to give something back and be completely transparent then they should have released everything they had traded/bought.

My opinion is pretty clear I'd think in that I don't think they had ANY right to release anything that belonged to the band. Not sure if your trying to discredit what I'm saying by pointing this out, but if you read ALL my posts you probbly wouldn't have? But i can see why you'd think that by the wat I worded it though (so maybe i could have been clearer).

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]4 x Vision wrote:[/b]I sense a slant in many other posts to put the group on the defensive to pressurize them to share everything. [/QUOTE]

I'm not one of them. I'm long past any "jealousy" in regards to Queen material, but there probably are some who have this as an intention in this thread, I agree there.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
And of course not being part of your secret trading group doesn't preclude me from commenting on Queenzone. It's not one pr the other. Or are you suggesting that only total supporters are allowed to speak?
[/QUOTE]
Obviously not.

On both sides of this discussion, there's a whole lot of talking and not a whole lot of listening.

But the difference between the two sides is - one of them is basing their comments on experience in the subject being discussed, whereas the other thinks they know what they're talking about despite having no experience.

[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]
What I find most interesting and most hypocritical is that traders (who by definition aren't going to share anything freely) are craving for recognition and praises for their hard work when something accidentally slips from the inner circle to the masses.[/QUOTE]
a) The only person craving recognition was Fuller. The owner of the original acetate saying "it was mine" is not "craving recognition." It is merely an attempt to set the record straight.

b) Have a look at how many threads there are in the 'announce' section of this forum. Thousands of them. Most of it is pure generosity, and 99% of them stem from... wait for it... collectors. Or did hours of studio sessions and hundreds of concert recordings suddenly drop from the sky?

[QUOTE]You seem to have made it a larger than life issue for yourself[/QUOTE]
That is your interpretation.

[QUOTE]but it's not that important to the general population.[/QUOTE]
There have been millions of views of the Hyde Park, Earls Court and Houston videos on youtube - all of which were brought to the public by collectors. I rest my case.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]
What I find most interesting and most hypocritical is that traders (who by definition aren't going to share anything freely) are craving for recognition and praises for their hard work when something accidentally slips from the inner circle to the masses.[/QUOTE]
a) The only person craving recognition was Fuller. The owner of the original acetate saying "it was mine" is not "craving recognition." It is merely an attempt to set the record straight.
b) Have a look at how many threads there are in the 'announce' section of this forum. Thousands of them. Most of it is pure generosity, and 99% of them stem from... wait for it... collectors. Or did hours of studio sessions and hundreds of concert recordings suddenly drop from the sky?
[QUOTE]You seem to have made it a larger than life issue for yourself[/QUOTE]
That is your interpretation.
[QUOTE]but it's not that important to the general population.[/QUOTE]
There have been millions of views of the Hyde Park, Earls Court and Houston videos on youtube - all of which were brought to the public by collectors. I rest my case.[/QUOTE]

Why would the owner of the original acetate want to "set the record straight" unless he wants the world to know it was HIS acetate people are hearing, and it's due to HIS effort that the music is out there to hear.

The music itself is already out there, and you (him) can either get on with your lives and concentrate trading the other stuff, or you can start a public discussion to get credit for the current tracks.

If this is all about the number of views on YouTube (which actually has nothing to do with the topic) which you also want for YOUR release, you're even pettier than I thought.

If, on the other hand, it's all about getting the music to the masses, it doesn't really matter who gets the credit. Right?

[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]
Why would the owner of the original acetate want to "set the record straight" unless he wants the world to know it was HIS acetate people are hearing, and it's due to HIS effort that the music is out there to hear.[/QUOTE]
The next time someone takes credit for something you did, I'll be there with a camera while you're shaking the guy's hand.

[QUOTE]If this is all about the number of views on YouTube (which actually has nothing to do with the topic)[/QUOTE]
You said music collecting isn't important to the general population. I cited something to refute that. Are you really that daft?

[QUOTE]If, on the other hand, it's all about getting the music to the masses, it doesn't really matter who gets the credit. Right?[/QUOTE]
Right. That's normally what happens when a new recording is brought to the community. But here we have nine pages of people claiming that collectors are elitist parasites who do nothing good for anyone except themselves - despite the fact that most of these very naysayers benefit from the work collectors have done. In the light of such baseless vitriol, people are going to speak up to set the record straight.

If I am an "elitist" for stating facts, then I guess I'm an elitist... an elitist who has been part of a movement that has brought music to the eyes and ears of millions of people. Shame on me for that.

What exactly have you contributed to the Queen community again?

IMO, money is not (or shouldn't be) *that* relevant for a case like this. The truth is, for some people, 'a few thousand quid/euros/dollars' is pocket money, for others it's a fortune, so for some people such a sacrifice/gift/whatever will undeniably be easier.

There's a big difference between kindly requesting alleged 'hoarders' to share what they have (or even not 'kindly requesting' but 'annoyingly try to bully') and blatantly stealing from them.

Yet, IMO, this thread hasn't got much use: those who like DRF will continue to like him (good for him and good for them!), those who don't, won't (good for them as well!), those who hate JSS or Bob or Barb, etc., will remain in that position.

Secret groups have always existed (or at least for a while), I don't see anything wrong with that. If such an activity had actually broken any law, some of the many people who hate John et al would've put them behind bars a long time ago (same for DRF's YT channel). You may agree or disagree with what each part does, did, has done or will do, but there's not much to do about it.

IMO, and that's just *my* perspective, some people are devoting way too much time to somebody who doesn't deserve it.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
And of course not being part of your secret trading group doesn't preclude me from commenting on Queenzone. It's not one pr the other. Or are you suggesting that only total supporters are allowed to speak?
[/QUOTE]
Obviously not.
On both sides of this discussion, there's a whole lot of talking and not a whole lot of listening.
But the difference between the two sides is - one of them is basing their comments on experience in the subject being discussed, whereas the other thinks they know what they're talking about despite having no experience.[/QUOTE]

It's more like some people are asking questions and some are avoiding answering them. Whatever.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
But here we have nine pages of people claiming that collectors are elitist parasites who do nothing good for anyone except themselves[/QUOTE]
That's bollocks and you know it lol. Just a tactic to avoid dealing with some of the points raised. As for the rest, how many times should we thank collectors until your collective ego is massaged enough to stop calling us all parasites, beggars or the dumbest fanbase in music? Ballpark figure is fine.

[i]"I sense a slant in many other posts to put the group on the defensive to pressurize them to share everything.  The crux of the resentment is jealousy that they possess something the rest do not have.  People keep questioning the legal right of ownership and yet the underlying pressure is for the group to share everything.I don't understand how people can think that they are too smart to go about getting all these music but when other people do it, they owe the community a favour to share it."
[/i]

You're forgetting the group of QZ-ers that is simply fed up with all this ego-nonsense hijacking just about every thread, all while being insulted in many different ways by the Fanthology-illuminati and their cronies. I can do without your downloads and your snide remarks. Is it too much to ask to read something about Queen evey now and then ON A FUCKING QUEEN FORUM???? BOOK A FUCKING CONFERENCE CENTER AND LEAVE THIS FORUM THE FUCK ALONE!!!!!