Holly2003: "The problem here is that a small group of collectors demands the right to say whatever they like, without anyone dissenting. And when there is dissent, they respond with abuse and bullying..."
Unlike Brenski, I am a collector. Yes; I am proud of it, and no; "collector" is not a dirty word. So I will not apologise or Kowtow to anyone who suggests otherwise. But just to clarify; I do not demand anything from anyone. If you wish to disagree with me - do so, after all, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am being neither abusive or bullying here, but I do reserve the right to disagree with you. But that does not make me a bully.
I do however have two very strong arguments; which never get answered and always leads me back into this godforsaken spiral. So in an attempt to break that spiral; (as you can read above) (1) why was this thread hi-jacked from a civilised discussion into a flame war? There was no need, it was never going in that direction. The ink wasn't even allowed to dry when Inu wrote in this very thread: "my question to you now that we've got most of our bickering and talking points out of the way as a collective whole"; before a whole new flame-fest erupted - why? What ever happened to protocol, etiquette and even good manners?
(2) We need to agree to disagree on the Fuller affair and draw a line under it and let it go. I was there. I know what happened and have said so, and will continue to do so as I will not be brow-beaten into saying anything else. David of course has the right to reply, if he so choses to exercise that right Everyone else is just pitching in with speculation and guesswork; I agree that this is a free expression of their opinion, but that does not make them correct!
So there resolution if we want it... and yes; this is an olive branch.
[/QUOTE]
As I've said previously, and on this thread, keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place.
Lord Gaga · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
Complete balls. Usual character assassination from you.[/QUOTE]
It's funny, because TRW agrees with someone who he thinks is the voice of reason, and you agree with someone who you think is the voice of reason. Both of you are only correct to whomever agrees with your opinions; why continue to stoke the fires and do as your buddy GF suggested and leave well enough alone, hm?
Holly2003 · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Lord Gaga wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b] Complete balls. Usual character assassination from you.[/QUOTE]
It's funny, because TRW agrees with someone who he thinks is the voice of reason, and you agree with someone who you think is the voice of reason. Both of you are only correct to whomever agrees with your opinions; why continue to stoke the fires and do as your buddy GF suggested and leave well enough alone, hm?[/QUOTE]
"As I've said previously, and on this thread, keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place."
inu-liger · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
As I've said previously, and on this thread, keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place. [/QUOTE]
At the rate things are going, that just may be the only thing I can agree with you there, if only for the fact the stubbornly vindictive attitude your trio has practically left everyone on both sides with no choice otherwise IF we are to agree to pursue an armistice of sorts so that we can get back to a stress-free environment.
John S Stuart · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b] Groundhog Day 475...
Holly2003: "The problem here is that a small group of collectors demands the right to say whatever they like, without anyone dissenting. And when there is dissent, they respond with abuse and bullying..."
Unlike Brenski, I am a collector.
Yes; I am proud of it, and no; "collector" is not a dirty word. So I will not apologise or Kowtow to anyone who suggests otherwise.
But just to clarify; I do not demand anything from anyone. If you wish to disagree with me - do so, after all, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I am being neither abusive or bullying here, but I do reserve the right to disagree with you. But that does not make me a bully.
I do however have two very strong arguments; which never get answered and always leads me back into this godforsaken spiral.
So in an attempt to break that spiral; (as you can read above) (1) why was this thread hi-jacked from a civilised discussion into a flame war?
There was no need, it was never going in that direction. The ink wasn't even allowed to dry when Inu wrote in this very thread: "my question to you now that we've got most of our bickering and talking points out of the way as a collective whole"; before a whole new flame-fest erupted - why? What ever happened to protocol, etiquette and even good manners?
(2) We need to agree to disagree on the Fuller affair and draw a line under it and let it go.
I was there. I know what happened and have said so, and will continue to do so as I will not be brow-beaten into saying anything else.
David of course has the right to reply, if he so choses to exercise that right
Everyone else is just pitching in with speculation and guesswork; I agree that this is a free expression of their opinion, but that does not make them correct!
So there resolution if we want it... and yes; this is an olive branch.
[/QUOTE]
As I've said previously, and on this thread, keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place.[/QUOTE]
Holly2003: I totally agree with you. (Honest!).
I think if we all agreed to your suggestion that would indeed be a final breakthru!
However; this thread was indeed free from "all the trading squabbles... of the forum... and it is still not a "happier place", because here we are back yet again at ground zero.
This thread (in my opinion) was amicable.
What went wrong with someone asking a sensible question which deserved a sensible answer?
I think that you too Holly have to agree as long as we keep it civil then no fall, no foul... surely?
But I feel (again in my opinion) that whatever I write, will be hijacked and twisted to be used against me, so the simple solution to that problem is to stop writing, (That is not a threat or a bribe but a genuine emotional truth), and even if my perception is wrong, you cannot tell me how I feel... and right now I feel "under a personal attack", and I would like to know why... what have I done to any of you guys to deserve such highly pointed and personal insults?
Disagree with me; fine.
Argue with me and I am allowed to argue back, that is called dialogue. But dialogue must be a two-way street, however painful the process, and argue against the points I make - not against my persona.
My point is we all have a different tipping point of diminishing returns - Mr. Queen Fan" does talk for me "I'm not interest anymore" - and when that happens (to anyone) this community becomes less diverse and more draconian in its extreme views.
John S Stuart · Member since
Stuff this... I can't be arsed anymore.
I just don't need all this negativity in my life.
I think I'll just stick to the Fanthology forums instead.
Holly2003 · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]inu-liger wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b] As I've said previously, and on this thread, keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place. [/QUOTE]
At the rate things are going, that just may be the only thing I can agree with you there, if only for the fact [b]the stubbornly vindictive attitude[/b] your trio has practically left everyone on both sides with no choice otherwise IF we are to agree to pursue an armistice of sorts so that we can get back to a stress-free environment.[/QUOTE]
Vindictive.
Remind me again who ratted out Fuller to QPL and then came on here to crow about it? Oh that's right, it was you.
GF has been called a "c**t"on this thread and yet all you do is play the victim. Where was your moral outrage at that?
And it's not me or GF who keeps bringing up Fuller on Queenzone so stop pretending it's our fault.
Holly2003 · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b] Groundhog Day 475...
Holly2003: "The problem here is that a small group of collectors demands the right to say whatever they like, without anyone dissenting. And when there is dissent, they respond with abuse and bullying..."
Unlike Brenski, I am a collector. Yes; I am proud of it, and no; "collector" is not a dirty word. So I will not apologise or Kowtow to anyone who suggests otherwise. But just to clarify; I do not demand anything from anyone. If you wish to disagree with me - do so, after all, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am being neither abusive or bullying here, but I do reserve the right to disagree with you. But that does not make me a bully.
I do however have two very strong arguments; which never get answered and always leads me back into this godforsaken spiral. So in an attempt to break that spiral; (as you can read above) (1) why was this thread hi-jacked from a civilised discussion into a flame war? There was no need, it was never going in that direction. The ink wasn't even allowed to dry when Inu wrote in this very thread: "my question to you now that we've got most of our bickering and talking points out of the way as a collective whole"; before a whole new flame-fest erupted - why? What ever happened to protocol, etiquette and even good manners?
(2) We need to agree to disagree on the Fuller affair and draw a line under it and let it go. I was there. I know what happened and have said so, and will continue to do so as I will not be brow-beaten into saying anything else. David of course has the right to reply, if he so choses to exercise that right Everyone else is just pitching in with speculation and guesswork; I agree that this is a free expression of their opinion, but that does not make them correct!
So there resolution if we want it... and yes; this is an olive branch.
[/QUOTE]
As I've said previously, and on this thread, keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place.[/QUOTE]
Holly2003: I totally agree with you. (Honest!). I think if we all agreed to your suggestion that would indeed be a final breakthru!
However; this thread was indeed free from "all the trading squabbles... of the forum... and it is still not a "happier place", because here we are back yet again at ground zero.
This thread (in my opinion) was amicable. What went wrong with someone asking a sensible question which deserved a sensible answer? I think that you too Holly have to agree as long as we keep it civil then no fall, no foul... surely?
But I feel (again in my opinion) that whatever I write, will be hijacked and twisted to be used against me, so the simple solution to that problem is to stop writing, (That is not a threat or a bribe but a genuine emotional truth), and even if my perception is wrong, you cannot tell me how I feel... and right now I feel "under a personal attack", and I would like to know why... what have I done to any of you guys to deserve such highly pointed and personal insults?
Disagree with me; fine. Argue with me and I am allowed to argue back, that is called dialogue. But dialogue must be a two-way street, however painful the process, and argue against the points I make - not against my persona.
My point is we all have a different tipping point of diminishing returns - Mr. Queen Fan" does talk for me "I'm not interest anymore" - and when that happens (to anyone) this community becomes less diverse and more draconian in its extreme views.[/QUOTE]
I have no interest in discussing the ins and outs of your feelings John, any more than you give a hoot about mine (or GF's). You wanted a solution and I provided it. Keep trading squabbles off the forum, Simple. End of. As long as the usual blabbermouths pipe down about "spongers" "beggars" etc, then some sort of order might return.
The Valyard · Member since
I have no interest in discussing the ins and outs of your feelings John, any more than you give a hoot about mine. Why be this uncharitable?
You said keep all the trading squabbles off the forum and it will be a happier place. he said this thread was indeed free from "all the trading squabbles... of the forum... and it is still not a "happier place", because here we are back yet again at ground zero. To me it looks like he was agreeing with you and your feelings. I think we all should give a hoot about the feelings of others.
1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
inu-liger · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
GF has been called a "c**t"on this thread and yet all you do is play the victim. Where was your moral outrage at that? [/QUOTE]
I will not be inclined to defend middle-aged bullies who have yet to even apologize for certain unwarranted harsh names and comparisons thrown my way to begin with.
Until I see an apology, be it public or private, from the ringleader of the bullies herself, NOT happening. So fuck you!
VfLDOTL · Member since
Well, don't fight guys ;-)
Only one question: I've heard several rumors, that a certain group of fans are planning to unveil a large queen collection of concerts and unreleased material. Was this "fanthology-thing" meant or someone else?
GF has been called a "c**t"on this thread and yet all you do is play the victim. Where was your moral outrage at that? [/QUOTE]
I will not be inclined to defend middle-aged bullies who have yet to even apologize for certain unwarranted harsh names and comparisons thrown my way to begin with.
Until I see an apology, be it public or private, from the ringleader of the bullies herself, NOT happening. So fuck you![/QUOTE]
lol @ the muppet ^
Like being savaged by a dead sheep lol
brENsKi · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]VfLDOTL wrote:[/b]
Well, don't fight guys ;-)
Only one question: I've heard several rumors, that a certain group of fans are planning to unveil a large queen collection of concerts and unreleased material. Was this "fanthology-thing" meant or someone else?[/QUOTE]
nice one. way to go. advising (tongue in cheek) to stop all the fighting, then raising the whole thorny issue again with a slightly different battering ram.
in answer to your question - yes, but i understand it was planned to be phased/periodic - a track or project at a time - at intervals. but a certain individual's actions appears to have kyboshed that for good - so don't hold your breath
GF has been called a "c**t"on this thread and yet all you do is play the victim. Where was your moral outrage at that? [/QUOTE]
I will not be inclined to defend middle-aged bullies who have yet to even apologize for certain unwarranted harsh names and comparisons thrown my way to begin with.
Until I see an apology, be it public or private, from the ringleader of the bullies herself, NOT happening. So fuck you![/QUOTE]
lol @ the muppet ^
Like being savaged by a dead sheep lol[/QUOTE]
Grow up
GratefulFan · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Thistleboy1980 wrote:[/b]
I like GF, and will not slant on the side of giving her abuse for her interpretations of the matter, but she IS wrong. Sure, if she is speaking hypothetically, then a lot of the scenarios she presents COULD be true. In REALITY, they're not! We may not know what Fuller had before Fanthology, but let's just put it THIS way: if his channel was anything to go by, he did NOT have the type of material that would warrant a trade for the gems that have been surfacing SINCE his involvement with Fanthology. FFS, even I had all of the stuff on his channel, and I've not been in the loop for the best part of a decade (I don't have the sort of material that would warrant being part of Fanthology and I match Fuller's channel). We know that Fuller has never denied downloading from Fanthology: but why would he want to download tracks he ALREADY had??? In short, his impressive collection was achieved POST Fanthology. It stands to REASON - NOT romanticised "could be's".
I've known both JSS and Craig (jam monkey) for quite some time and they really are salt of the earth guys. If they say their version of events is true, then it's true. Believe me.
End of.
Now, can we get back to discussing what rarities might be out there, without the vitriol???[/QUOTE]
I like you too Thistleboy. :)
But I can't agree with much of this. First, my argument has never been about what Fuller did or didn't do. I don't know. I've said that 20 times at least over the last couple of years. A year ago when this all blew up, I said that if I had to take a position it would be that Dave had probably done what he had been accused of. That's not the point. Guilt is not an endorsement for an irrational, vicious, self serving witch hunt. That is the principle, and it's not a pedantic one. If anybody thinks it is, its only because you have the luxury of not being the subject.
There has always been enough for an 'indictment' and a statement that there were multiple pieces of evidence that indicated Fuller had leaked Fanthology tracks. But to go from that to the way he is used over and over again as a thoroughly demonized warning to all that would dare to challenge the status quo is not okay. It's not. Ideas need to be able to compete, and David's idea is that the unwashed public is a worthwhile stakeholder. You don't have to like the man to consider the idea, but you do need to be rational. I don't find many of the arguments made over the year or two since this blew to be rational.
I'd point to yours as well. That he wouldn't download stuff he 'already had' is very weak. These are people that are poring through songs to find an extra sigh from Freddie or something. Some material is processed and improved. The scene is very competitive. I think it would be odd if a collector didn't download material they weren't 100% sure there were familiar with end to end. And similarly, only for Fuller would the argument be made that a public channel is a snapshot of what was in his private collection. On a thread where we can't even get a list of what is in Fanthology, I shouldn't even have to point out that material is kept strategically private by collectors. Fuller works on a time schedule that is different than the epoch thinking of the current elite, but that doesn't mean he doesn't hold things back for trading. We're also not just talking about 'before' Fanthology. We're approaching the two year mark, so there's been plenty of time for 'after' Fanthology trades too. Maybe he didn't make the initial leak from Fanthology only stuff and the rest of it was a big f-you for the savaging. There are possibilities well beyond the rigid ethical system presented as the only option here.
Once again, to be clear, I'm not arguing that this is what occurred. I'm only pointing out how poor the arguments and proof have been generally. How people make up special, irrational, counter-intuitive rules for David Fuller.
To me, he's always been a proxy for smashing dissent. Some are comfortable with that. Some most definitely are not.
