silver salmon Date

I think I may be opening a can of worms here but can anyone give me a date when the track was recorded? I hear so many different opinions. I think freds voice sounds like 77/78 era but I keep seeing it credited as an earlier demo. If im right about the date then is it a NOTW demo?

It's been a while since I heard this track, but I always had a couple of questions myself about it:

1 - the version I have (commonly available) starts off with a bit of conversation. I've always been a bit sceptical about this, and thought it was added in, as the track then starts abruptly. Is this version a faked one? Or is that conversation actually part of the recording?

2 - going on the basis that the conversation is real, can we place it in the very early 70s era? I say this because I'm sure Freddie says "I know he doesn't know it" (or something along those lines). Could he be referring to a new bassist? (For some reason, I took it that way when I first heard it. But that's assuming the conversation belongs to the same recording).

3- If that wild theory is correct, wouldn't that place it somewhere between 70-71?

4 - if it is so early, who penned it? It could be a Smile track.....

Of course, those questions were in my mind long before Fanthology's "Chapter One". They're forwarding the notion that this is a Tim Staffell track, although I'm not sure if this alone is just guesswork, inside knowledge or concrete fact as the source is not explained.

Without the above post, I'd personally say it sounds early as Fred's vocals sound similar to the "Polar Bear" takes.

Either way, Crazy Duck's right - there has been a lot of opinion/ rumour about it. Can anyone definitively clear this up? (as "Fanthology" have not quoted sources).

i know it was BEFORE 1992 :-)

in all seriousness i'm sure i heard (on QZ) it was a very early queen song from the recording sessions for the first album???
because it used to be fondly referred to as being part of the "bible trilogy"
"jesus", "mad the swine" and "silver salmon"
i used to think these were all freddie compositions - but i'm sure i read somewhere (on here) some time ago
that Brian was claiming the writing credit for it....(is there any song he doesn't claim?)

EDIT:
found original QZ thread:
http://www.queenzone.com/forums/447288/request-silver-salmon-extended.aspx

The song is Tim's and the recording's from 1977. 'He doesn't know it' refers to John, not because he was new (he'd been in the band six years by then) but because he didn't know the song (as it was, indeed, a Smile song, and John never saw that band).

Before anyone comes up with the lame argument of 'why would they play an old song?', remember that there's no rule against it.

Actually, LOADS of people suddenly break into old songs, either their own or covers they used to play in the early days, etc. It's part of human nature, that sense of nostalgia and/or 'let's give that one another go.' The Beatles laid down most of You Know My Name in 1967 and added the vocals twenty-two months later; they also recorded The One After 909 in 1963 and revisited it in 1969; What Goes On existed for at least two or three years before they did the version that got on the album; The Eagles included a re-recording of a several-year-old (previously unreleased) song on their big comeback album; Brian May himself commented he'd written Why Don't We Try Again during Queen (i.e. Freddie) years but saved it for much later; McCartney re-recorded Eleanor Rigby, For No-One and Yesterday, at some point, long after Lennon had died; Queen re-recorded Keep Yourself Alive in 1975.

Queen album sessions, for what we know (which is still limited) were largely (but not entirely) filled with new and fresh material, but it doesn't mean it was forbidden or a physical impossibility for them to make an occasional exception and try out old ideas that may have not been ready before and/or for one reason or another hadn't seen the light of day. Remember when Brian included Too Much Love on his solo album, half a decade after the Queen version was recorded? In that case, same as in Silver Salmon from 1977, the fact it was previously unreleased may have also played a role in the songs being granted a place in such late sessions.

Agree with Sebastian. It sounds more like '77 to me too listening to Freddie's voice and Roger's drumkit. The News Of The World album was a raw album and this song could be recorded during those sessions as it also has a raw feeling to it.

Just listened back, and the conversation actually refers to "Silver Salmon" (I couldn't recall if it did or not at the time of posting, sorry...). But, to me, it still starts really abruptly, and I'm not convinced it was recorded that way - could the circulated version be a hybrid of two separate recordings? Or just some weird edit of one take?

Thanks to Seb for clearing up that "he doesn't know it" does refer to John :)

But still not entirely convinced that it's as late as '77/'78. What's your source for that please, Seb? (Not that I'm siding with Fanthology's notes on it, as they haven't quoted a source either....)

According to Fanthology notes, this Tim Staffell track is another Sci-fi based track. Seemed to be order of the day back then.....wonder if it's Bowie influenced in any way?

It comes from the same sessions as 'Feelings'.

^ Okay, I'm not a disbeliever lol. But what's your source for that info? I'm seeing plenty of statements from all over the joint (Tim wrote it, Brian wrote it, it's part of Freddie's "Bible" trilogy......it's from the early 70s, it's from the late 70s.....) but no sources. I've been searching since this topic came up, but all the material is contradictory :(

Fanthology notes match up to my own thoughts from when I first heard the track, but again, no source to clarify for certain. I don't know what's right and what's not, hehe - the only things I'm sure about are that it's a Staffell track and it was before 1992 :p

And still not sure about why it's so abrupt, if it's a merge or what.....

Why can't people just admit they don't have a clue?

[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]

Why can't people just admit they don't have a clue?[/QUOTE]

There's loads of conflicting information about it - but surely someone has the right source (out-with the band that is. Even then, there'd be doubts haha).

[QUOTE] [b]Walter White wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]

Why can't people just admit they don't have a clue?[/QUOTE]

There's loads of conflicting information about it

[/QUOTE]

Theres no information about it, thats the problem... its just guesses....

If you ask me I stay true to the "recorded in 1977" theory.
Take a listen to this corrected speed version on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wOe8cK2-yg
This is clearly Freddie's voice back in 1977, very similar to the "Bbc sessions" and "Feelings" kinda of voice.
The song was probably written in late 1969 - early 1970 by Tim Staffel for Smile then left to Bri & Rog who surely added something instrumentally. Possibiliities are that they rhearsed the piece back in 1970-'71 with Freddie before John joined the band (so it's explained the sentence "I know he doesn't know it") then it was retaken in 1977 'cause it was more suitable for the "News Of The World" album (like the song "Sheer Heart Attack", originally tought for the homonymous album). Then for "God knows what reason" ('cause again if you ask me it sounds really promising) was discarded (maybe they preferred the charmless "Who Needs You" only to satisfy John by introducing one of his composition besides the wonderful "Spread Your Wings"... talking about delicate internal band balances). I don't think they ever played it live in concert back in 1970-early '71 'cause it sounds too much "work in progress".

... and maybe a complete version with full lyrics and instrumental parts exists and it will be released on the new Queen album ;) wink wink ;)

Another clue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UyfcrKxAn0
listen to Feelings Feelings (Take 10, July 1977). Drums sounds exactly the same as the very one contained in this track...
The track was recorded in 1977 no doubt about it for sure ;)