Mr.QueenFan
edit. double post
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Mr.QueenFan
[QUOTE] [b]GT wrote:[/b]
Just to continue an earlier point. The band would very often play around in the studio to new songs and even old songs before they would get down to actually recording new tracks for an album. Tracks like Feelings and Silver Salmon were often played in a band jam and they would even play other artists songs as part of this warm up. This is a scenario for the majority of all artists I expect.
[/QUOTE]
This is a very good point, and true. Bands do play old songs and covers to warm up. I´ve always had this question in my mind about Queen after 1986 in the studio.
If the tapes were running, is there any live concerts in the studio in the years 88-91? By this is mean, warming up to "Tie your mother down" and other stuff. I´ve always fantasized about hearing Freddie singing "BohRap" and "We are the champions" with his 1990 voice. It´s wishful thinking but i always thought about this possibility.
Just to continue an earlier point. The band would very often play around in the studio to new songs and even old songs before they would get down to actually recording new tracks for an album. Tracks like Feelings and Silver Salmon were often played in a band jam and they would even play other artists songs as part of this warm up. This is a scenario for the majority of all artists I expect.
[/QUOTE]
This is a very good point, and true. Bands do play old songs and covers to warm up. I´ve always had this question in my mind about Queen after 1986 in the studio.
If the tapes were running, is there any live concerts in the studio in the years 88-91? By this is mean, warming up to "Tie your mother down" and other stuff. I´ve always fantasized about hearing Freddie singing "BohRap" and "We are the champions" with his 1990 voice. It´s wishful thinking but i always thought about this possibility.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]GT wrote:[/b]
Just to continue an earlier point. The band would very often play around in the studio to new songs and even old songs before they would get down to actually recording new tracks for an album. Tracks like Feelings and Silver Salmon were often played in a band jam and they would even play other artists songs as part of this warm up. This is a scenario for the majority of all artists I expect.
[/QUOTE]
In the 70s I bet this happened a lot, but by the early 80s? Their tastes were in so many directions at that point, and I get the impression that things weren't even amicable enough by Hot Space and The Works to even want to jam.
But ... of course I wasn't there. It sure is fun to speculate.
Just to continue an earlier point. The band would very often play around in the studio to new songs and even old songs before they would get down to actually recording new tracks for an album. Tracks like Feelings and Silver Salmon were often played in a band jam and they would even play other artists songs as part of this warm up. This is a scenario for the majority of all artists I expect.
[/QUOTE]
In the 70s I bet this happened a lot, but by the early 80s? Their tastes were in so many directions at that point, and I get the impression that things weren't even amicable enough by Hot Space and The Works to even want to jam.
But ... of course I wasn't there. It sure is fun to speculate.
John S Stuart
If this song has been tucked away all this time in the vaults of the Bank of England (adjusting for inflation); we will be lucky if it is released as "Silver Sardine"!
Thistle
^ PMSL
The Real Wizard
Gotta open this can of worms one more time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wOe8cK2-yg
At 3:12, Brian has bent a note (tenth fret on the B string) and taps the 18th fret with his right hand. He first began exploring the two fingered tapping technique during...
... the recording of NEWS OF THE WORLD.
Every piece of aural evidence points this track to the summer of 1977, and this bit should cement it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wOe8cK2-yg
At 3:12, Brian has bent a note (tenth fret on the B string) and taps the 18th fret with his right hand. He first began exploring the two fingered tapping technique during...
... the recording of NEWS OF THE WORLD.
Every piece of aural evidence points this track to the summer of 1977, and this bit should cement it.
Sebastian
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
He first began exploring the two fingered tapping technique [/QUOTE]
That we know of ...
I agree with SS being from NotW, but I disagree with the wording of your statement.
He first began exploring the two fingered tapping technique [/QUOTE]
That we know of ...
I agree with SS being from NotW, but I disagree with the wording of your statement.
The Real Wizard
Well, until other evidence suggests he explored the technique prior to 77, it stands as one further piece of the puzzle.
Current science sees the age of our planet as about 4.5 billion years old. Until further evidence suggests otherwise, we accept the hypothesis. We don't reject it because other evidence might come along some day. If that was the case, then we wouldn't accept anything about the world that's beyond anyone's ability to be an eyewitness.
We just have to hit a point where we reach reasonable middle ground and accept something because the evidence is balanced, convincing and rational enough that we can rule out the extremely minute chance that it may be built upon some day. This is the basis of all study of history, archaeology and geology ... so it might as well apply here too.
Current science sees the age of our planet as about 4.5 billion years old. Until further evidence suggests otherwise, we accept the hypothesis. We don't reject it because other evidence might come along some day. If that was the case, then we wouldn't accept anything about the world that's beyond anyone's ability to be an eyewitness.
We just have to hit a point where we reach reasonable middle ground and accept something because the evidence is balanced, convincing and rational enough that we can rule out the extremely minute chance that it may be built upon some day. This is the basis of all study of history, archaeology and geology ... so it might as well apply here too.
The Real Wizard
http://www.woodytone.com/2009/01/12/a-gibbons-may-van-halen-thang
This interview implies that Brian learned of the technique not long before he laid the It's Late solo down to tape, a brief phase he went through.
His first exposure to tapping was when he saw a guitar player in a bar band in Texas, and Queen's first visit there was 1975. So that immediately disqualifies this Silver Salmon recording as being earlier than that. But it seems pretty clear it was all in 1977.
This interview implies that Brian learned of the technique not long before he laid the It's Late solo down to tape, a brief phase he went through.
His first exposure to tapping was when he saw a guitar player in a bar band in Texas, and Queen's first visit there was 1975. So that immediately disqualifies this Silver Salmon recording as being earlier than that. But it seems pretty clear it was all in 1977.
dysan
Great thread. Well done everyone.
Sebastian
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
Current science sees the age of our planet as about 4.5 billion years old.
[/QUOTE]
It's not the same case, as the research methods differ. This is more like: currently, no dinosaur larger than Argentinosaurus has been discovered. Sensible palaeontologists describe it, then, as 'the largest sauropod known (so far)', which is NOT the same as 'the largest sauropod ever to have existed,' as they're fully aware that we haven't, and most likely won't ever have, discovered even half of the species that existed in those days.
Same case here: it can be said, and it's absolutely valid, that the first documented instance of Brian publicly using tapping on a released studio recording was in 1977. What is NOT, is saying that Brian never tapped before that, as that can't be known.
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
We just have to hit a point where we reach reasonable middle ground and accept something because the evidence is balanced, convincing and rational enough that we can rule out the extremely minute chance that it may be built upon some day. This is the basis of all study of history, archaeology and geology ... so it might as well apply here too.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly, so it can be said, and it's absolutely valid, that the first documented instance of Brian publicly using tapping on a released studio recording was in 1977. What is NOT, is saying that Brian never tapped before that, as that can't be known.
Current science sees the age of our planet as about 4.5 billion years old.
[/QUOTE]
It's not the same case, as the research methods differ. This is more like: currently, no dinosaur larger than Argentinosaurus has been discovered. Sensible palaeontologists describe it, then, as 'the largest sauropod known (so far)', which is NOT the same as 'the largest sauropod ever to have existed,' as they're fully aware that we haven't, and most likely won't ever have, discovered even half of the species that existed in those days.
Same case here: it can be said, and it's absolutely valid, that the first documented instance of Brian publicly using tapping on a released studio recording was in 1977. What is NOT, is saying that Brian never tapped before that, as that can't be known.
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
We just have to hit a point where we reach reasonable middle ground and accept something because the evidence is balanced, convincing and rational enough that we can rule out the extremely minute chance that it may be built upon some day. This is the basis of all study of history, archaeology and geology ... so it might as well apply here too.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly, so it can be said, and it's absolutely valid, that the first documented instance of Brian publicly using tapping on a released studio recording was in 1977. What is NOT, is saying that Brian never tapped before that, as that can't be known.
Sebastian
That's precisely 'middle ground': admitting that there's not enough evidence to assume he never tapped before that (or that Roger never had timbales before that).
It wouldn't make sense to completely dismiss the theory just because we don't know, but it doesn't make sense, either, to completely accept the theory as, again, we don't know.
Roger using timbales and Brian using tapping both contribute to the sound hypothesis that SS comes from 1977.
Roger using timbales and Brian using tapping both strongly connect that record to the same era as the NOTW album.
It's a fact that the first incorporation of timbales and tapping to the band's sound was NOT after 1977; it's a theory (nothing more, nothing less) that it was IN 1977.
It wouldn't make sense to completely dismiss the theory just because we don't know, but it doesn't make sense, either, to completely accept the theory as, again, we don't know.
Roger using timbales and Brian using tapping both contribute to the sound hypothesis that SS comes from 1977.
Roger using timbales and Brian using tapping both strongly connect that record to the same era as the NOTW album.
It's a fact that the first incorporation of timbales and tapping to the band's sound was NOT after 1977; it's a theory (nothing more, nothing less) that it was IN 1977.
The Real Wizard
Fair play.
But it's not like it's 50/50. It's a wider margin than that.
Otherwise, creationism is worthy of 50% of the discussion vs modern science. Not every point of view is equal.
Bottom line in this particular instance is that we both see the many things clearly pointing this track to 1977, so hopefully it can now be put to rest.
But it's not like it's 50/50. It's a wider margin than that.
Otherwise, creationism is worthy of 50% of the discussion vs modern science. Not every point of view is equal.
Bottom line in this particular instance is that we both see the many things clearly pointing this track to 1977, so hopefully it can now be put to rest.
Sebastian
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
Not every point of view is equal.[/QUOTE]
Neither is every wording.
Sometimes terms can be interchangeable depending on the context (e.g., referring to a band's 'guitarist' as 'the guitar player'), sometimes they're simply not (e.g., referring to a 'guitar' as a 'ping-pong table').
It's a fact that John wrote YMBF at some point between his birth (or the beginnings of his literacy) and September 1975 (in an interview published on the 27th that month Freddie mentions the song).
It can be safely assumed, based on interviews and quotes, that he wrote the song about Veronica, so the time frame can be narrowed down to after he met her (early 1970's, I suppose) and September 1975.
It can be less safely (but still relatively soundly) assumed, also based on interviews and stuff, that he wrote the song after they'd finished the SHA album (which would explain why it's not there or in any of its predecessors), which would narrow the time frame even more (October 1974 to September 1975).
From then on, theories would have a much stronger margin of error: for instance, it could be assumed that the song had to be written by the time they rehearsed at the Ridge Farm (July and/or August 1975), as they used to get together for pre-production and show each other the new songs then. It doesn't rule out, however, the possibility that YMBF (or any other) was an exception, just like NIH was in 1974, etc.
To simply say that, for instance, John wrote YMBF on the 25th of May 1975, is a massive shot in the dark, because yeah, who knows? Maybe he did, but maybe he didn't.
It can be safely established that Brian's first experimentation with tapping took place after his first visit to Texas and before the release of NOTW (i.e., between early 1975 and late 1977). Anything more specific can't be solidly supported with the evidence we have so far.
Not every point of view is equal.[/QUOTE]
Neither is every wording.
Sometimes terms can be interchangeable depending on the context (e.g., referring to a band's 'guitarist' as 'the guitar player'), sometimes they're simply not (e.g., referring to a 'guitar' as a 'ping-pong table').
It's a fact that John wrote YMBF at some point between his birth (or the beginnings of his literacy) and September 1975 (in an interview published on the 27th that month Freddie mentions the song).
It can be safely assumed, based on interviews and quotes, that he wrote the song about Veronica, so the time frame can be narrowed down to after he met her (early 1970's, I suppose) and September 1975.
It can be less safely (but still relatively soundly) assumed, also based on interviews and stuff, that he wrote the song after they'd finished the SHA album (which would explain why it's not there or in any of its predecessors), which would narrow the time frame even more (October 1974 to September 1975).
From then on, theories would have a much stronger margin of error: for instance, it could be assumed that the song had to be written by the time they rehearsed at the Ridge Farm (July and/or August 1975), as they used to get together for pre-production and show each other the new songs then. It doesn't rule out, however, the possibility that YMBF (or any other) was an exception, just like NIH was in 1974, etc.
To simply say that, for instance, John wrote YMBF on the 25th of May 1975, is a massive shot in the dark, because yeah, who knows? Maybe he did, but maybe he didn't.
It can be safely established that Brian's first experimentation with tapping took place after his first visit to Texas and before the release of NOTW (i.e., between early 1975 and late 1977). Anything more specific can't be solidly supported with the evidence we have so far.
Sebastian
That's where academic approach dictates the difference between saying, for instance, that the estimated age of the earth is about 4.5 * 10^9 years (keywords: estimated, about), and claiming, for instance, that we know for a fact that the exact age of the earth is 4,498,572,345 years, 4 months, 3 days and 2 and a half hours.