The Real Wizard wrote:
So what's your counter-evidence then?
it is on the same reel....
it is on the same reel....
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it is on the same reel....
brians wig wrote:
This is an interesting thread and one which will keep going forever until Greg Brooks pipes up and confirms one of the many theories.
I first heard this track back in 2001 (?) at Greg's very first archive session - a session which, as you all should know by now, was recorded by a member of the audience and leaked a year later under the highly amusing and ironic title of "Committing Robbery" (Robbery being one of the tracks played at said convention).
THIS recording, sadly, had Greg's banter between tracks edited out to make it more listenable as an 'album' as opposed to a historical record of an event, so I have only my faded/jaded memory to go by and that of any one else who may have been there at the time. MY memory tells me that Greg said it stemmed from the early 1970's.
However, the BIG question is this: is the nice clean "studio quality" version we've all heard the exact same recording as the one played at Convention? (I can't check as I don't have the convention recording to hand).
BUT, as GWAS has just stated, it was apparantly on the same reel as Polar Bear.
The other interesting thing is that it was played virtually back to back with another track called "Feelings" (NOT to be confused with Feelings, Feelings from the NOTW sessions) which was recorded during the exact same session almost straight after SS.
Sadly, "Feelings" has never surfaced in decent quality.
I've heard the GB commentary from that session, and he doesn't make any reference to when the track is from.
'Feelings' is also a made up name. GB simply refers to it as 'a minute of ad-libbing'.
Ok.
So Bob has clarified that the convention recording IS the same version we all have in nice quality. That's good to know.
If the musicians here are also certain that the drums etc are from the 1977 period, then I'm okay with that.
Question then is this: Who is Freddie referring to when he says "He doesn't know it"? Can the musicians here confirm that Silver Salmon is played by just Brian, Roger and Freddie - ie, no bass. If so, then perhaps it maybe IS John to whom Fred refers.
Jam Monkey:
Have you got the GB commentary from that archive session?
I was sure Greg had said it was from the early 70's. Of course, the positive about Convention is the opportunity to speak to Greg afterwards. He's got worse as the years have gone by, but he was reasonably open back at the start depending on what he was asked and I do recall grabbing him after a number of sessions.
Like I said, we need Greg to come here and confirm...
So Bob has clarified that the convention recording IS the same version we all have in nice quality. That's good to know.
If the musicians here are also certain that the drums etc are from the 1977 period, then I'm okay with that.
Question then is this: Who is Freddie referring to when he says "He doesn't know it"? Can the musicians here confirm that Silver Salmon is played by just Brian, Roger and Freddie - ie, no bass. If so, then perhaps it maybe IS John to whom Fred refers.
Jam Monkey:
Have you got the GB commentary from that archive session?
I was sure Greg had said it was from the early 70's. Of course, the positive about Convention is the opportunity to speak to Greg afterwards. He's got worse as the years have gone by, but he was reasonably open back at the start depending on what he was asked and I do recall grabbing him after a number of sessions.
Like I said, we need Greg to come here and confirm...
Why can't people just admit they don't have a clue?
brians wig wrote:
BUT, as GWAS has just stated, it was apparantly on the same reel as Polar Bear.
Yeah, but that's an edit of his original statement, which claimed 1974 to be the year. He didn't mention at this point that it was on the same reel as Polar Bear.
Not saying he's covering his arse, btw (anyone can make a mistake and correct it). Just pointing out that that 1974 was actually his original statement on the matter.
brians wig wrote:
I first heard this track back in 2001 (?) at Greg's very first archive session - a session which, as you all should know by now, was recorded by a member of the audience and leaked a year later under the highly amusing and ironic title of "Committing Robbery" (Robbery being one of the tracks played at said convention).
I remember having that recording, but it was just a CDR so don't know what it came from. I think there was a bootleg called "Gone Fishing" which featured some (if not all) of the same recording, and then later "My Secret Fantasy", which again featured some of that convention.
mooghead wrote:
Why can't people just admit they don't have a clue?
Shush, dear, the adults are talking.
That Silver Salmon recording is from 1977.
The drums were mentioned but another clue is Freddie's voice (which was also touched upon). He doesn't have the bright, feminine, and "youthful" tone to his voice that's prominent from the early 70s. He's got the slightly deeper tone with a slight growled edge to it. Also, listen to his top end notes--sounds absolutely nothing like early Freddie. If you listen to NOTW tracks such as "It's Late," the timbre of Freddie's voice is a perfect match to that NOTW track.
The drums were mentioned but another clue is Freddie's voice (which was also touched upon). He doesn't have the bright, feminine, and "youthful" tone to his voice that's prominent from the early 70s. He's got the slightly deeper tone with a slight growled edge to it. Also, listen to his top end notes--sounds absolutely nothing like early Freddie. If you listen to NOTW tracks such as "It's Late," the timbre of Freddie's voice is a perfect match to that NOTW track.
Another piece of evidence proving it's from 1977 is at 16 seconds.
Listen to where Freddie attempts to sing an E5 and his voice breaks/cracks up to around a G5. The only thing that would cause a sound like that (the break with overtones) is something impairing the vocal cords (nodules, polyps, etc). As everybody knows, Freddie first got these touring Sheer Heart Attack in early 1975.
This was a hot topic a while ago. In the end, it was the lack of pitch correction that was throwing people off + the drum kit pretty much IDed it as a 1977 recording.
ghostwithasmile wrote:
The Real Wizard wrote:
So what's your counter-evidence then?
it is on the same reel....
a) did you see the reel and attest to that yourself?
b) is it not possible to pick up an old reel with blank tape and record something else onto it?
Gregsynth wrote:
That Silver Salmon recording is from 1977.
The drums were mentioned but another clue is Freddie's voice (which was also touched upon). He doesn't have the bright, feminine, and "youthful" tone to his voice that's prominent from the early 70s. He's got the slightly deeper tone with a slight growled edge to it. Also, listen to his top end notes--sounds absolutely nothing like early Freddie. If you listen to NOTW tracks such as "It's Late," the timbre of Freddie's voice is a perfect match to that NOTW track.
Absolutely fucking 100% bang on.
late 71 early 72
I'm even more confused. I think those who say '77 have a good argument (especially when you hear the speed corrected version) but I'd also like to say that Freddie did not always produce top-notch performances in the early days. He sounds woeful in the wreckage recording (IMO) and I recall a few dodgy moments from some of the early 70s shows (don't ask me specific dates as I got rid of a lot of my recordings a couple of years ago). The argument from those who say late 70s carries a lot of weight and makes a lot of sense....but there's still no ACTUAL source of information, other than detective work. Would be good to hear from fanthology on why they've listed it as early 70s!!
It's just an old tale told even before we had the pleasure of actually hearing the song. Tim Staffell wrote the song, so therefore they only worked on it in the early days. All other detective work be damned.
There should be nothing confusing about this. They tried out an old song, and Deacon didn't play on it because the song predates his involvement in the band. All aural evidence points to 1977.
If we don't listen to people with a keen ear for detail, then we might as well throw out all archaeological and written evidence for anything that happened more than 150 years ago since everyone who was around back then is dead now. That seriously is the road we're going down now if we're just going to ignore evidence in favour of fables.
There should be nothing confusing about this. They tried out an old song, and Deacon didn't play on it because the song predates his involvement in the band. All aural evidence points to 1977.
If we don't listen to people with a keen ear for detail, then we might as well throw out all archaeological and written evidence for anything that happened more than 150 years ago since everyone who was around back then is dead now. That seriously is the road we're going down now if we're just going to ignore evidence in favour of fables.