Did Queen lose the States, because they 'lost' Freddie?

Just F.Y.I. (because my memory is very clear on this)...

Queen only 'recovered' in the USA because of the release of Wayne's World. Freddie's death had absolutely NO impact on anyone's awareness of them here in The States (I remember being astounded by this - I'd ask people if they heard the news of Freddie's passing and they'd simply reply that they'd NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THE BAND - argh).

Brian even mentioned this in an interview I saw. His quote was something along the lines of: "Even Freddie DYING couldn't bring us back in The States. But then this little movie came along..."

Wayne's World is what re-started them here. It's funny to me that it's rarely mentioned/remembered as it happened (the Wikipedia page is a good example of this - Wayne's World is barely mentioned as having anything to do with it - but that's what was responsible for it - and I'm still thankful).

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]

I really wish I still had that tape. The BM was talking about the staging, setlist and proposed dates it sounded like they wer very close to announcing something.

Yeah being a fly on the wall would have been very enlightening. . . .

Talking of touring and stage sets I wonder what they are planning this time? Maybe that thought/question belongs on another thread.

Woof woof![/QUOTE]

I thought I might have a tape of this show too but unfortunately I don't. I doubt I even heard the show because I know I would have remembered Brian claiming they were planning on touring the States. But that didn't stop me from finding the phone number of Gerry Stickells in LA and calling him to ask when Queen was going to tour again. That was sometime in '85 or '86.

I do have tapes of Brian and Roger's Rockline appearance in 1991 and Brian's appearance in '92, plus a Queen tribute show a week later on the night of the Freddie Tribute Concert. I recorded some other radio interviews from the early 80's but they weren't live like Rockline and were distributed to stations on LP or CD.

I did find a clipping (in my "archives") from USA Today on March 26, 1984:

[QUOTE][b]USA Today wrote:[/b]

As for touring, Queen doesn't plan to hit the road again until the fall, preferring to test public response to the new album first. "We're financially secure," Taylor says, "so we have the opportunity to get off the treadmill that says you must record an album and follow it up with a tour."

Queen, one of the pioneers of rock video with 1976's Bohemian Rhapsody, is counting on clips to promote The Works until a tour is organized.[/QUOTE]

This was the week after the album was released in the US. Here's a possible timeline: Brian does the radio show at the end of April and both the album and Radio Ga Ga were selling well so they were planning to tour. But then IWTBF doesn't even make the top 40 and The Works stalls at 23. Add in the backlash over the video and the payola scandal and they abandon all plans for a US tour.

I'll try to upload the USA Today article this weekend.

[QUOTE] [b]slithybill wrote:[/b]

Add in the backlash over the video and the payola scandal and they abandon all plans for a US tour.[/QUOTE]
And realizing that Prenter had burned their radio bridges one by one. This really is a huge part of the equation.

It's hard for most of us to imagine today, but radio was a MASSIVE means of promotion in the 70s and 80s, especially in the US. In the UK they had Top Of The Pops, but in the US it took years for Queen to build their reputation, as they had to do it city by city via radio. The same interview with the same questions every morning for months. But it paid off.

By 1984 they weren't on MTV (Break Free was binned), and without radio there to help them out their chances of playing to half empty arenas were pretty high. So they pulled the plug and considered other places like South Africa, and went back to Australia for the first time since 1976. Not to mention playing to half a million people in Rio.

A lot of things led up to the 84 US tour being pulled and effectively eliminating Queen from public consciousness. Even though the Break Free video was what it was, Queen were still a big name, and a well promoted tour is always possible no matter how bad your last album or single was - just ask Bowie in 1987.

Even after Hot Space came out, the 82 tour was the only time Queen consistently got good concert reviews. Body Language couldn't kill their stage show. Something else had to be responsible. Break Free and Capitol payola were biggies, but it seems pretty clear that Prenter was the final straw.

But the question is - had the 84 US tour even happened, would that have really changed their overall fortunes?


[QUOTE]I'll try to upload the USA Today article this weekend.[/QUOTE]
Well done ! Looking forward to it.

and also factor in....that america is huge - a potential audience of just under 200million?
- when you rule out the very old and the very young.

So there was still a market for 20,000 seater venues at say, 20 major cities - good music will still pull an audience

AMEN !

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]slithybill wrote:[/b]

Add in the backlash over the video and the payola scandal and they abandon all plans for a US tour.[/QUOTE]
And realizing that Prenter had burned their radio bridges one by one. This really is a huge part of the equation.

It's hard for most of us to imagine today, but radio was a MASSIVE means of promotion in the 70s and 80s, especially in the US. In the UK they had Top Of The Pops, but in the US it took years for Queen to build their reputation, as they had to do it city by city via radio. The same interview with the same questions every morning for months. But it paid off.

By 1984 they weren't on MTV (Break Free was binned), and without radio there to help them out their chances of playing to half empty arenas were pretty high. So they pulled the plug and considered other places like South Africa, and went back to Australia for the first time since 1976. Not to mention playing to half a million people in Rio.

A lot of things led up to the 84 US tour being pulled and effectively eliminating Queen from public consciousness. Even though the Break Free video was what it was, Queen were still a big name, and a well promoted tour is always possible no matter how bad your last album or single was - just ask Bowie in 1987.

Even after Hot Space came out, the 82 tour was the only time Queen consistently got good concert reviews. Body Language couldn't kill their stage show. Something else had to be responsible. Break Free and Capitol payola were biggies, but it seems pretty clear that Prenter was the final straw.

But the question is - had the 84 US tour even happened, would that have really changed their overall fortunes?


[QUOTE]I'll try to upload the USA Today article this weekend.[/QUOTE]
Well done ! Looking forward to it.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]slithybill wrote:[/b]

Add in the backlash over the video and the payola scandal and they abandon all plans for a US tour.[/QUOTE]
And realizing that Prenter had burned their radio bridges one by one. This really is a huge part of the equation.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I didn't mean to discount the impact that Paul Prenter's piss poor "press relations" had.

It is interesting to look at the grosses from the Hot Space tour.[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Space_Tour#Box_office_score_data[/url] Assuming these figures on Wikipedia are accurate, virtually all of their shows in Europe were sold out. In North America only 7 venues were 80% capacity or more. Then in Japan they nearly sold out all 7 dates. I wonder if ticket sales in the US would have been better if they had toured here first (before the Body Language/Hot Space "backlash" had a chance to take hold and set in).

Here's the article from USA Today dated March 26, 1984.

^great Thanks !

great article!

Surprisingly, everyone mentions Body Language as Hot Space's downfall in the US, but i think that did already come earlier, as Body Language was quite a mediocre hit there. If we compare chart positions overseas from 1980 to 1982, we get the following:

Crazy Little Thing Called Love # 1 (Billboard and Cash Box) US # 1 CA vs. # 2 EU (# 2 UK)

Save Me (for whatever reason not released in the US) # 32 CA vs. # 25 EU (# 11 UK)

Play The Game # 42 (Billboard) and # 38 (Cash Box) US # 19 CA vs. # 17 EU (# 14 UK)

Another One Bites The Dust # 1 (Billboard and Cash Box) US # 1 CA vs. # 12 EU (# 7 UK)

Need Your Loving Tonight # 44 (Billboard) and # 66, ouch (Cash Box) US # 36 CA (no release in Europe)

Flash # 42 US (Billboard) and # 39 (Cash Box) US # 19 CA vs. # 10 EU (# 10 UK) - this seems to have been Queen's biggest hit in the German speaking countries

Under Pressure # 29 (Billboard) and # 22 (Cash Box) US - now that is already strangely low, but apparently only in the States! - # 3 CA vs. # 1 EU (# 1 UK)

Body Language # 11 (Billboard and Cash Box) US # 3 CA vs. # 11 EU (# 25 UK)

Calling All Girls # 60, ouch (Billboard) and # 61, ouch again (Cash Box) # 33 CA vs. Las Palabras De Amor, unfortunately i don't have any EU chart position for this, # 17 UK - this was the first Queen song to become #1 in PL's young chart

Back Chat didn't chart neither in the US nor in CA, and apparently not in the EU either, and only became # 40 UK - this only seemed to have barely hit the Top20 in IE and ZA

With this said, Queen's positions in the US and the UK both were rather poor lately, but while in the EU Queen recovered, that abruptly ended states-side after Radio Gaga already didn't chart too well. In became a major hit throughout Europe as did A Kind Of Magic later, but that one didn't even make the US Top40 - in fact apart from the Show Must Go On / Bohemian Rhapsody (re-release) none of their singles did (if they even charted!), as far as i can tell not even a related release like Living On My Own (remix), which became a massive hit throughout Europe, but went completely unnoticed in the US.

The low sales on the Hot Space tour would even undermine its lack of success in the States. When did Peter Prenter come into action, 1984? Queen might have already been knocked overseas, even if Body Language fared far better there than it did here.

Thanks for the chart stats. I hadn't looked at them in that light before.

I've read different dates of when Paul Prenter was Freddie's personal manager. I can't recall if I've ever seen any "official" timeline though.

My theory is that even if Hot Space was a big hit in the US, Queen would eventually loose their funbase and cretability there. I am Greek but i have the feeling that Americans have a mentality in music much different than UK or Europe. They want their rockers to be pure, something like Eagles. They respond to labels/boxes/categories much more strictly.
From the way they respond to their flag to their ethics in generall ( it has to do with the way their country was structured) they need and therefore use SYMBOLS. Things that make them collide as a nation.Their youth/pop coulture follows the same pattern. Or at least it used to.
Queen became far too diverse and versatile for the Americans so they couldn't provide IDENTITY.
Of course Queen were always diverse but at least they were stretching in the rock n roll realm.
After AnotherONBTD ( even it was a major succes), Hot Space and the I want to break free video to the American concious they became something blurry. They were everything so therefore they standed for nothing.
Their decline was almost inevitable in the US becouse Queen's signature became an "abstract concept" like real art most of the times is.

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]

My theory is that even if Hot Space was a big hit in the US, Queen would eventually loose their funbase and cretability there. I am Greek but i have the feeling that Americans have a mentality in music much different than UK or Europe. They want their rockers to be pure, something like Eagles. They respond to labels/boxes/categories much more strictly.
From the way they respond to their flag to their ethics in generall ( it has to do with the way their country was structured) they need and therefore use SYMBOLS. Things that make them collide as a nation.Their youth/pop coulture follows the same pattern. Or at least it used to.
.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Stelios. Really have to disagree with you on this. Why? I can name several gay/bi rock stars who America never turned against

Bowie, Elton, Michael Stipe, Billy Joe Armstrong, Rob Halford (Judas Priest), B52s (Fred Schneider, Ricky Wilson, and Keith Strickland), Pet Shop Boys.....oh yeah and one Adam Lambert.


BTW - way to go -boxing ALL Americans as redneck fundamentalist intolerant(s).