Did Queen lose the States, because they 'lost' Freddie?

Roger didn't carry queen after Hot Space...Most of those songs weren't hits in America....Innuendo wasn't written by Roger alone...Only most of the lryics was his...musically Freddie wrote most of it...Roger did write the biggest hits With Ga Ga and Magic, but Freddie and Brian still were writing the best songs...It's a Hard Life and Hammer to Fall were the best tracks on The Works...Those two songs were pretty close to their 70's heyday....A kind of Magic had Who wants to live forever and Princes of the universe as the best songs....One Vision wasn't a roger song either, as you could tell Freddie had a big impact on the song...Have you ever watched them in the studio recording it?......Even if Roger came up with the original idea.it was Freddie that took it over...The bottom line is Freddie and Brian were and always will be what was special about that Band....

By who's measure are you claiming those songs you listed to be the best on the works? You have an opinion, like everyone, but I doubt the band would agree. They would never pick a weak or under par song to be a lead single. They never did before The Works.

As for Roger writing the songs you mentioned, yes he did. If he had not presented the band with those ideas, then the band or as you pointed out Freddie wouldn't have had what he had to work with.

Yes Freddie wrote, most of, the music for the song Innuendo. But with out Roger"s input the song would not have existed. Freddies input in the studio is without question in the 70's. But by the 80's he had other things to occupy his time, solo recordings, bars, nightclubs etc. He spent less time than the other three on working on Queen.

As for the One Vision film. It kind of centers around a conversation behind e mixing desk cut with short bursts of film of the band recording. It would be inaccurate to conclude that the whole session for that song was like that. Or that it is a 100% accurate representation of every Queen recording session.

@ Vocal Harmony 

"He (Freddie) spent less time than the other three on working on Queen."

I believe this not include The Miracle sessions,
but still, is it true for the other part of the 80's?

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]

By who's measure are you claiming those songs you listed to be the best on the works? You have an opinion, like everyone, but I doubt the band would agree. They would never pick a weak or under par song to be a lead single. They never did before The Works.

As for Roger writing the songs you mentioned, yes he did. If he had not presented the band with those ideas, then the band or as you pointed out Freddie wouldn't have had what he had to work with.

Yes Freddie wrote, most of, the music for the song Innuendo. But with out Roger"s input the song would not have existed. Freddies input in the studio is without question in the 70's. But by the 80's he had other things to occupy his time, solo recordings, bars, nightclubs etc. He spent less time than the other three on working on Queen.

As for the One Vision film. It kind of centers around a conversation behind e mixing desk cut with short bursts of film of the band recording. It would be inaccurate to conclude that the whole session for that song was like that. Or that it is a 100% accurate representation of every Queen recording session. [/QUOTE]
Of course it's all opinion Mr. Brilliant.....and my opinion of what made Queen special was the singer and guitarist....roger and John obviously contributed good things, but too say Roger carried Queen in the 80's is bullshit...I already said Freddie's songwriting went downhill in the 80's...but that's also opinion right?...you state it like it's a fact....Brian also wasn't the same as a guitarist and writer in my opinion..but he still was better than Roger. IMO, Roger as a drummer went downhill more than anything..Listen to him in the 70's, then listen to his weak drumming in the 80's...

fact is that they all got far too comfortable in the 80s - that kind of wealth can give rise to two negative influences:

1. complacency - you think you can do no wrong - so you start to tread water

2. lots of attention from "outside" influences

the band suffered from 82-89 on both of the above

the song writing/production and musicianship suffered loads....just think how easy it became to "programme" something rather than play the actual instrument

we all know what "distractions" freddie had, Brian's marriage split and the whole Anita thing consumed him, Roger became the archetypal rockstar/playboy, and even John had two brushes with the courts over his motoring indiscretions - especially with driving while drunk

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

fact is that they all got far too comfortable in the 80s - that kind of wealth can give rise to two negative influences:

1. complacency - you think you can do no wrong - so you start to tread water

2. lots of attention from "outside" influences

the band suffered from 82-89 on both of the above

the song writing/production and musicianship suffered loads....just think how easy it became to "programme" something rather than play the actual instrument

we all know what "distractions" freddie had, Brian's marriage split and the whole Anita thing consumed him, Roger became the archetypal rockstar/playboy, and even John had two brushes with the courts over his motoring indiscretions - especially with driving while drunk[/QUOTE]

I agree, Brian even said that he would never work so hard for a song, like he did in the SHA/ANATO days....I think that sums up Freddie as well....They were so creative in the early days, Of course I'm talking about Freddie And Brian....Roger was not as creative Obviously, but that was good thing...they needed those simple Rockers as well as the brilliant stuff. In the 80's Freddie needed to get off Prince and Jackson's influence...Tears for fears and all that crap he was listening to...In those last 4 years he finally snapped out of it....Barcelona and Innuendo were great...The miracle not so much...

Mike G. wrote:

Let's try this again,,,,,This is a popular discussion here on Queenzone over the years. In my opinion why Queen lost the states is nothing to do with sexuality, maybe that prenter guy had a little something to do with it...But it was mainly the songs and change of direction the fans didn't like...AOBTD and The Game in general didn't lose many fans, yea, they didn't love it like SHA and Opera but most liked it...That album gained them many new fans...The problem obviously came with Hot Space, AOBTD style but not as good...HS is when the old fans Finally jumped ship, while the newer Fans moved on because the album wasn't a very good dance album...Then came The Works, Radio Ga Ga was a decent hit that got radio play, but the album wasn't on the level of their 70's work....They also didn't tour to promote the album...Usually when a band announces a tour is when fans get excited and the new record starts selling better...Of course I want to break free being banned on MTV didn't help matters....So the original Question, did Queen lose the States, because they lost Freddie?...yes!...because they lost his creativity as a songwriter...The same for Brian...Compare Freddie and Brian songs from the 70's and 80's....

This and Brenski's follow up are spot on. Success, complacency, lack of hunger and shitty songs are a bad combo.

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]




Of course it's all opinion Mr. Brilliant.
[/QUOTE]


Well mr not so Brilliant it doesn't change the fact that RT wrote more of the songs that defined Queens later out put as singles more then Freddie or Brian.

As for changing the point you were making into a RT didn't play as well in the 80's. Yes he did. Did FM? Not really he got Fred Mandel to play parts that he would have played five years before.

It's a Hard Life isn't a great song when stacked up with what FM wrote in the 70's. It's very much Queen by numbers in comparison. Even by the standards of The Works it's no better than Ga Ga or HTF

listen, My problem was when someone said Roger carried Queen in the 80's, after Hot Space...Radio Ga Ga was a big hit, and a good pop song...But he only wrote 1 and half songs for that album...How is that carrying Queen?....His drumming was pretty weak as well...A Kind Of Magic he wrote a big hit, and a nice pop song, but only wrote 2 songs on the whole album...The other "don't lose your head" being one of Queen's worse songs...His drumming was non exsistent on that album, How is that carrying Queen?....I like Breathru, but Invisible Man was dreadful, but at least Brians solo was great....how is that carrying Queen?....I like Roger , but he's barely ever mentioned with the great drummers, like a pert for example...If anybody carried Queen in the 80's it was Freddie's voice...His voice made average pop songs sound better than they actually were...Remember, I'm passed the fanboy stage for any performer...but I tell it the way it is...No one mentions Roger like they do Freddie and brian, I'm just stating facts....

Aside from Freddie's performance what was so great about I Want to Break Free?....Musically Queen were average in the 80's, they relied on Freddie's Voice to make these average songs good...Innuendo was a great album, but his drumming was pretty weak by rock standards...Almost ruining some great songs...Listen to NOTW, SHA and Songs like Dead On Time, and entertain you from Jazz...That's what a Rock Drummer suppose to sound like...From 1980 on, Roger was very disappointing as a drummer...Name more than 2 or 3 drummers that cite roger as as a major influence...Can You?...Now Freddie and Brian I could name dozens...I like roger, but hate when people say shit like roger carried Queen, that shit makes me laugh...

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]




Of course it's all opinion Mr. Brilliant.
[/QUOTE]


Well mr not so Brilliant it doesn't change the fact that RT wrote more of the songs that defined Queens later out put as singles more then Freddie or Brian.

As for changing the point you were making into a RT didn't play as well in the 80's. Yes he did. Did FM? Not really he got Fred Mandel to play parts that he would have played five years before.

It's a Hard Life isn't a great song when stacked up with what FM wrote in the 70's. It's very much Queen by numbers in comparison. Even by the standards of The Works it's no better than Ga Ga or HTF
[/QUOTE] you made my point, Yes, Ga Ga was good and on par with those two tracks I mentioned, but how is that carrying Queen?...I didn't say Roger Had No Impact...These are the days of our lives is one of my favorite Queen Songs...

From 1984 onward ...

Roger spawned 2X as many UK top 10 Queen singles as Freddie, Brian and John combined.

Roger spawned as many UK top 20 Queen singles as Freddie, Brian and John combined.

UK Top 10 Singles - RT has 8, FM has 2, JD has 1, and BM has 1

UK Top 20 Singles - RT has 9, BM has 5, FM has 2.5, JD has 1.5 and David Richards has 1

RT - Radio Ga Ga 2
JD - Want to Break Free 3
FM - It's a Hard Life 6
BM - Hammer To Fall 13
RT - One Vision 7
RT - A Kind Of Magic 3
FM/JD - Friends Will Be Friends 14
BM - I Want It All 3
RT - Breakthru 7
RT - The Invisible Man 12
RT - Innuendo 1
BM - Headlong 14
BM - The Show Must Go On 16
RT - These Are The Days Of Our Lives 1
RT - Heaven For Everyone 2
FM - A Winter's Tale 6
BM - Too Much Love Will Kill You 15
RT - Let Me Live 9
David R. - You Don't Fool Me 17

The thing is Queen were very black and white with their songwriting credits, yet we know they don't paint the full picture. We know without Freddie's input on RGG & AKOM, they wouldn't have been hits. The fact that TATDOOL was Freddies last single and HFE was their first really posthumous single, gave both songs huge pushes up the charts which helped Roger's track record. I'm also not convinced Roger should get sole credit for OV, LML & Innueno.

i think this ^ does Roger a huge disservice. You're forgetting one key thing here. They ALL contributed hugely to each others' songs in different ways.
Secondly, Freddie may have been contributing to the songs you cite, from a singers' POV - ie lyrical changes that are easier to sing - that's not necessarily taking anything away from RT's writing ability is it? Surely without his musical writing ability there is no song.

Lastly, have you listened to Roger's solo stuff? there's some cracking tunes in there - even the Cross stuff has some excellent songs

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

i think this ^ does Roger a huge disservice. You're forgetting one key thing here. They ALL contributed hugely to each others' songs in different ways.
Secondly, Freddie may have been contributing to the songs you cite, from a singers' POV - ie lyrical changes that are easier to sing - that's not necessarily taking anything away from RT's writing ability is it? Surely without his musical writing ability there is no song.

Lastly, have you listened to Roger's solo stuff? there's some cracking tunes in there - even the Cross stuff has some excellent songs[/QUOTE]
A point well made. I think Mike G has chosen not to exept that in the mid to late 80's it was RT's song writing and ideas that gave Queen. A lot of their chart presence and their for kept the band in the public eye, so the argument saying that Roger carried Queen in this period is justified.

As far as playing goes, Mike are you confusing production and recorded sound with actual playing?