Did Queen lose the States, because they 'lost' Freddie?

[QUOTE] [b]Supersonic_Man89 wrote:[/b]

The thing is Queen were very black and white with their songwriting credits, yet we know they don't paint the full picture. We know without Freddie's input on RGG & AKOM, they wouldn't have been hits. The fact that TATDOOL was Freddies last single and HFE was their first really posthumous single, gave both songs huge pushes up the charts which helped Roger's track record. I'm also not convinced Roger should get sole credit for OV, LML & Innueno.[/QUOTE]

I was not giving Roger sole credit for these songs, but rather gave him credit for being the primary spark that spawned these songs.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

i think this ^ does Roger a huge disservice. You're forgetting one key thing here. They ALL contributed hugely to each others' songs in different ways.
Secondly, Freddie may have been contributing to the songs you cite, from a singers' POV - ie lyrical changes that are easier to sing - that's not necessarily taking anything away from RT's writing ability is it? Surely without his musical writing ability there is no song.

Lastly, have you listened to Roger's solo stuff? there's some cracking tunes in there - even the Cross stuff has some excellent songs[/QUOTE]The cross sucked big time.....I never said Roger didn't do good things in his career, I said he didn't carry Queen...Freddie's voice carried Queen in the 80's...Roger wrote 1 good song per album in the 80's...That's not carrying a band...Hits aren't the whole story....I'm giving the man credit, I'm not calling him crap or garbage, but he didn't carry Queen...Did Freddie carry Queen in the 70's?....He had the most impact, but he didn't carry them...Brian wrote some of their best work of that era...

it really depends on what YOU call "carrying"

my interpretation of carrying is who maintained the profile of the group the most - in a worldwide sense

in the 70s - without any doubt at all - Freddie
SSOR/Killer Queen/Bo Rhap/STL/Champions/Bicycle Race/Don't Stop Me Now/CLTCL
that's 8 out of 13 singles

and on that basis - in the 80s - Roger indisputably carried the band's song-writing burden also

@brENsKi
"and on that basis - in the 80s - Roger indisputably carried the band's song-writing burden also "

I think it was more of an unofficial collaboration between Roger and Freddie that carried Queen inot the 80's. It has been said that Roger was the one from the group more aware of the trends. Now the 80's was more trend-oriented than the 70's so in that aspect its logical Roger could be more in-tuned with what was happening.
Still i feel it was Freddie's talent that gave Roger's ideas the edge to become hits.

1)Innuendo : clearly a collaboration

2)A Kind of Magic: we know the story and clearly Roger's original though a nice song is far from the catchy/infectious final result.

3) One Vision. I think the "making-of" footage shows Freddie almost "took over" the song.

4)These Are the Days of Our Lives. Although a great song it was Freddie's performance and what was happening at the time that took the song to anothel level.

5) Let Me Live. The gospel side of the song is what makes it stand out. And we can assume who was responsible for this.

6)Radio Ga Ga. I think i remember reading Roger presented a guitar based song. The final resoult, a futuristic pop/electronica number( far from what the original must have been) was Freddie's idea.Perhaps Freddie's input here was more significant than on any of the above.

It seems to me that Freddie's talent transformed into the 80's from original writter to writter/producer.
Someone who could see and take to fruition basic ideas. Its like he had a more clear vision of what would work as soon as he had the skeleton from another member .
On the contrary, his own more complex and idiosyncratic writting was at odds with what the 80's needed.

but [b][i]whose[/i][/b] ideas were they? [b][i]Roger's[/i][/b] -without his ideas - they had nothing
and conversly -  in the 70s, they also collaborated on each other's work - but i don't hear you crediting [i][b]Roger[/b][/i] with input to Freddie's songs.

Lastly - [b]"Let Me Live"[/b] -  [i][b]"The gospel side of the song is what makes it stand out. And we can assume who was responsible for this"[/b][/i] really? (your words Stelios) - if so then we don't need to [i][b]assume[/b][/i] who was responsible - we [b][i]know[/i][/b] who was....[b][i]Janis Joplin[/i][/b]...that's who

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]

@brENsKi
"and on that basis - in the 80s - Roger indisputably carried the band's song-writing burden also "

I think it was more of an unofficial collaboration between Roger and Freddie that carried Queen inot the 80's. It has been said that Roger was the one from the group more aware of the trends. Now the 80's was more trend-oriented than the 70's so in that aspect its logical Roger could be more in-tuned with what was happening.
Still i feel it was Freddie's talent that gave Roger's ideas the edge to become hits.

1)Innuendo : clearly a collaboration

2)A Kind of Magic: we know the story and clearly Roger's original though a nice song is far from the catchy/infectious final result.

3) One Vision. I think the "making-of" footage shows Freddie almost "took over" the song.

4)These Are the Days of Our Lives. Although a great song it was Freddie's performance and what was happening at the time that took the song to anothel level.

5) Let Me Live. The gospel side of the song is what makes it stand out. And we can assume who was responsible for this.

6)Radio Ga Ga. I think i remember reading Roger presented a guitar based song. The final resoult, a futuristic pop/electronica number( far from what the original must have been) was Freddie's idea.Perhaps Freddie's input here was more significant than on any of the above.

It seems to me that Freddie's talent transformed into the 80's from original writter to writter/producer.
Someone who could see and take to fruition basic ideas. Its like he had a more clear vision of what would work as soon as he had the skeleton from another member .
On the contrary, his own more complex and idiosyncratic writting was at odds with what the 80's needed.

[/QUOTE]

I have a feeling the more this thread goes, the more people will agree with me....I have no idea where anyone gets the idea Innuendo was A roger song...It's a known fact it started as a Jam between Brian, Roger, and John...Freddie heard the Jam and started singing...then took over the rest of the song musically...Roger wrote most of the Lyrics, except the middle section "Be Free with your temple" part, which was written by Freddie...You could credit all four members equally, or say it's a Freddie/roger song...It Definitely wasn't a Roger only song...

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

but [b][i]whose[/i][/b] ideas were they? [b][i]Roger's[/i][/b] -without his ideas - they had nothing
and conversly -  in the 70s, they also collaborated on each other's work - but i don't hear you crediting [i][b]Roger[/b][/i] with input to Freddie's songs.

Lastly - [b]"Let Me Live"[/b] -  [i][b]"The gospel side of the song is what makes it stand out. And we can assume who was responsible for this"[/b][/i] really? (your words Stelios) - if so then we don't need to [i][b]assume[/b][/i] who was responsible - we [b][i]know[/i][/b] who was....[b][i]Janis Joplin[/i][/b]...that's who[/QUOTE]
Let me live sounds more like a Freddie or Brian song than Roger....Remember, this argument started because someone said Roger carried Queen in the 80's...Then I disagreed....Roger wrote 1 song on the Works....A good song, but Freddie reworked it and made it into a hit, and Machines was a roger/Brian song was average at best...How is that carrying Queen?...The same for AKOM...1 good song and 1 crappy song...How is that carrying Queen?...No question Roger finally started writing a few hits...Ga Ga was his only top 40 in the states....It's not all about hits, Brian didn't write many big hits in the 70's, but would you dare compare 80's roger with 70's Brian?....Every documentary Roger only gets mentioned for going to Jail drunk. No one say's how brilliant he was...or his drumming ability...Even the ANATO documentary, it's all Freddie and Brian's brilliance...Look at the passion when Brian talks about the Freddie songs..compare that when he talks about a roger song...Brian is a very smart man.....
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not all about hits...Bria/n

Where's Sebastian when you need him??

A few clarifications:

1. Radio Ga Ga was always a synth-based song. Roger said he locked himself in a studio for three days with a synthesizer, and came out with Radio Ga Ga. It wasn't entirely to Freddie's liking, so he took it upon himself to craft it into what it finally became. So, Roger wrote the song, and Freddie rearranged it.

2. Similar instance with A Kind Of Magic.

3. Let Me Live started off as a jam in 1983. Freddie would never live to see it worked on again; Roger, Brian, and John added their parts in 1994/1995. It's safe to assume that Roger wrote his verse and the bridge, and Brian wrote his verse. To call it a full-blown Roger composition is odd, and something I'd never seen before. THAT BEING SAID, if Another Piece Of My Heart IS a Roger song, and that was what Queen, Rod Stewart, and Jeff Beck were jamming on in '83, then that would be a new story I'd never heard. (If only Gary Taylor, Greg Brooks, or Joshua J. Macrae could confirm...)

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]



Still i feel it was Freddie's talent that gave Roger's ideas the edge to become hits

On the contrary, his own more complex and idiosyncratic writting was at odds with what the 80's needed.

[/QUOTE

This being the case, why were there so many weak spots on Mr Bad Guy. An album on which FM was free to exercise his skills as a writer, arranger, producer and artist to the limits. On that album he often falls into the trap of wanting or trying to make things sound like Queen.

The mention of his complex writing style has little to do with any of this. He had largely left that behind in the 70's. Songs like CLTCL and Body Language can't be called complex, as with most of the Mr Bad Guy album. It proves FM could write straight forward songs, but could he do it better than his band mates? I don't think so. RT's solo songs have less of a Queen feel, cover a broader subject matter and are for the most part better than a lot of FM's solo work.
I would say that this is proof that in the 80's at least RT was at least FM's equal as a songwriter

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

but [b][i]whose[/i][/b] ideas were they? [b][i]Roger's[/i][/b] -without his ideas - they had nothing
[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]

It Definitely wasn't a Roger only song...[/QUOTE]

No one said anything about these songs being Roger only.

However, Roger was the primary spark to create these songs.

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]
This being the case, why were there so many weak spots on Mr Bad Guy. An album on which FM was free to exercise his skills as a writer, arranger, producer and artist to the limits. On that album he often falls into the trap of wanting or trying to make things sound like Queen.
[/QUOTE]

I honestly never thought of that. I had always wondered why Mr. Bad Guy was such a crappy album – it honestly sounds like a bunch of half-baked demos – and I was then going to counter, "Well, Barcelona is a brilliant album!" But he had collaborators on that album; Mike Moran really put an impressive stamp on it, and David Richards did a great deal of work, too. Plus, Freddie was stepping out of his comfort zone – instead of writing straightforward pop and disco songs as on Mr. Bad Guy, here he was writing for a different voice.

I really do think that if Freddie had submitted the songs for Mr. Bad Guy as Queen songs, the band would have done wonders on them.

^ this.

And since we are on the subject of Roger (and Freddie) :
 [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXpMZC5bbw]Freddie Mercury+Roger Taylor Interview 1984 RARE!!!![/url]

(terrible quality but bouth light a cigarette from Freddie's match at the end)