Did Queen lose the States, because they 'lost' Freddie?

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[b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b] [QUOTE] [QUOTE] [/QUOTE

This being the case, why were there so many weak spots on Mr Bad Guy. An album on which FM was free to exercise his skills as a writer, arranger, producer and artist to the limits. On that album he often falls into the trap of wanting or trying to make things sound like Queen.

The mention of his complex writing style has little to do with any of this. He had largely left that behind in the 70's. Songs like CLTCL and Body Language can't be called complex, as with most of the Mr Bad Guy album. It proves FM could write straight forward songs, but could he do it better than his band mates? I don't think so. RT's solo songs have less of a Queen feel, cover a broader subject matter and are for the most part better than a lot of FM's solo work.
I would say that this is proof that in the 80's at least RT was at least FM's equal as a songwriter

[i]Answer:

 Freddie always talked about friction and tention within the band that brought the best of them. He was the one to mention that the most. Lacking that element on Mr. Bad Guy he was competing with himshelf. I bet he lost interest quite soon.
On Barcelona he really had something to proove therefore the rise of quality.
Freddie was a competitive guy ( in a good way) and he really needed strong stimulation to flourish.

As for complex/"simple" writer he had a mentality of extremes even in that territory. In a way it was again a way to express his versatility.Perhaps during the 80's he sould have stayed more on a middle ground rather than prooving he could be the absolute opposite of himshelf if he wanted.
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I'm Still waiting for all those musicians who were influenced by Roger. I asked name more than 3 drummers who cited Roger as an influence?...I'm still waiting and as a songwriter?

What does that have to do with Queen losing the States, or his songwriting in the 80s?

We already know why Queen lost the states...Fans didn't like the new style...I was young at the time, but do remember people talking about Queen going disco and hating the new album "Hot Space." Roger's songwriting wasn't any better in the 80's than in the 70's...just because he had the ability to write hits. He was still a hit and miss songwriter...one good song and a bad one on each album...The 70's actually was better for him...Tenament Funster, I'm in love with my Car, Sheer Heart attack, Modern times RNR....were better than what he did in the 80's....What made Freddie great in the 70's was his ability to write hits and songs like Black Queen that no one's heard of..

All of their songwriting went down in the 80's....People on Queenzone like to rag on Freddie and Brian the most, in this thread it happens to be Freddie...because they were the most popular and Influencial....Don't misunderstand me, Freddie wasn't Queen...Brian wasn't Queen...They all played their part...but equals they were not...Or else Roger would be mentioned like other great drummers are....You really think just because Roger wrote Ga Ga and Magic he was a better songwriter in the 80's than in the 70's?....Influence in order, Freddie, Brian, Roger, John....No matter what any Roger fans say's on Queenzone, it doesn't change that fact....Personally that's my order as well...I do like John at least equally to Roger...spread your Wings is Excellent..

[QUOTE] [b]Lord Gaga wrote:[/b]

What does that have to do with Queen losing the States, or his songwriting in the 80s?[/QUOTE] Because if he was so great in the 80's he would get praised more, or at least mentioned as a influence on other musicians....the way Freddie and Brian did in the 70's...

Except for the hardcore fans, Queen's popularity has always been about their hits, and Roger was the primary force in 2/3's of their top 10 hits after 1983.

Would Queen have been nearly as popular in the UK with only IaHL, IWtBF, IWIA and aWT as top 10 hits? Probably not.

That Roger is not in the same league as drummer God's like Neil Peart, and that he had penned throwaways like DLYH and M(BtH) is irrelevant to this discussion, in light of Queen's reliance on singles with crafty hooks.

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]
.Don't misunderstand me, Freddie wasn't Queen...Brian wasn't Queen...They all played their part...but equals they were not...Or else Roger would be mentioned like other great drummers are.....[/QUOTE]

and that ^ is the basis for your argument? comparison to his peers?
I can kill that argument with one name - someone who's knows as a singer/songwriter first and foremost - but also plays the drums in an arguably bigger world band than queen right now

Step Forward Don Henley...no-one anywhere in drummer circles cites Don Henley as a drumming influence, but there are plenty of bands out their that copy his song writing/arrangement and even his vocals

sorry Mike, your argument has just been destroyed

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]
.Don't misunderstand me, Freddie wasn't Queen...Brian wasn't Queen...They all played their part...but equals they were not...Or else Roger would be mentioned like other great drummers are.....[/QUOTE]

and that ^ is the basis for your argument? comparison to his peers?
I can kill that argument with one name - someone who's knows as a singer/songwriter first and foremost - but also plays the drums in an arguably bigger world band than queen right now

Step Forward Don Henley...no-one anywhere in drummer circles cites Don Henley as a drumming influence, but there are plenty of bands out their that copy his song writing/arrangement and even his vocals

sorry Mike, your argument has just been destroyed

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Who arguing?...I'm Just stating facts....Watch anything to do with Queen, it's all about the Guitarist and singer...The only time Roger gets a mention is when they talk about how good looking he was, and how he got drunk and spent the night in Jail.....Watch a Rush video, it's pretty equal between the 3 of them....That's all I'm saying, ...By the way, I never heard anyone copy Roger!...My main argument was Roger didn't "carry" Queen in the 80's....He was important because he came up with some good tunes, while Freddie wanted too make a crappy dance album with Mr. Bad Guy...most of his ideas went towards that crap album...Brian was only good for 1 or 2 songs at that point...Roger and John were important in that regard...No one even mentioned John, He only wrote 2 of the biggest hits of the 80's...IWTBF and Bites the dust...Did John Carry Queen?

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b].Don't misunderstand me, Freddie wasn't Queen...Brian wasn't Queen...They all played their part...but [b]equals[/b][b] they were not[/b]...[b]Or else Roger would be mentioned like other great drummers are.[/b].....[/QUOTE] Mike you mentioned [b]Roger[/b] not being mentioned like all great drummers - and i referred to Don Henley - fact is [i][b]BOTH[/b][/i] are drummers in their respective bands - but neither is known world-wide for their drumming - that doesn't diminish their contribution at band level - [b][i]BOTH[/i][/b] wrote a big slice of the hits. 

that pretty much debunked [b][i]that [/i][/b] element of your argument, but you still don;t accept it

[QUOTE] [b]Mike G wrote:[/b]We already know why Queen lost the states...Fans didn't like the [b]new style[/b]...I was young at the time, but do remember people talking about Queen going disco and hating the new album "Hot Space."

People on Queenzone like to rag on [b]Freddie and Brian[/b] the most, in this thread it happens to be Freddie...because they were the most popular and [b]Influencial[/b]...[/QUOTE]
 You've answered your own question - in a nutshell Queen lost the States because of the direction the band went in...and as you cite Freddie & Brian as being the most influential - then THEY must shoulder most of the blame for losing the States, Which is why people generally blame them both.

You can't blame the two "junior" songwriters - because they were bothered enough to write some hits during the 80s it was Roger & John that dragged the band's ass out of the sh*t during the 80s.

Not going to bother to try discussing this with you anymore, because as you can see [b]above[/b] you contradict your own points given long enough, and in any case, you seem more preoccupied with cherry-picking credit/blame where you see fit.

Don't know if Rog carried Queen in the 1980s but I'm pretty sure if Radio Ga Ga wasn't a hit that would've been the end of the band. They made it clear in interviews at the time that if The Works sold as badly as Hot Space then there wasn't much point in keeping Queen going. So maybe Roger saved Queen :)

This debate has taken a lot of turns, but I'd like to make one more.

I have been thinking a lot of HotSpace/Works -era Queen. To me it seems, like someone already said a few sites back, Queen were declining as an entity during the early 80's.

It might been the fact that the stomaches were really full by Hot Space. They were meticulously working on their material durin ANATO/ADATR-days, but early 80's the method was more like "snort some lines of cocaine and but the drum machine on and see what happens". That sucks, but it seems to happen to the most intelligent persons. You dont have anything to prove or fight for.

The live-performances suffered too. Freddies excess during this mid-80's period did detoriate his voice and Rogers use of synthdrums during Works-tour made the whole tour really crappy sounding in general. I doubt it was succes anywhere. Playing that tour in USA wouldn't have helped them.

Only the better concerts during Magic Tour were anywhere near the quality they did, lets say 1981 tours.

So actually, sucks to say this, Freddie's illness was a saving grace in a way. He really got back the inspiration/enthusiasm and need to prove. It is where only few bands have succeeded in, to bring back the quality after huge success and creative drought.