Songwriting, Arrangements, etc., and how they differ

There’s been a request to discuss the songwriting process on Queen, so here it is. It’s gonna be a long post so if you’re not up for a long read, try to scan and skim or simply ignore this. Please only contribute if your comments are gonna help this ‘research’. By that I don’t mean you’ve got to agree with me, but if you disagree, you can do it in a respectful way, there’s no need to bring out offensive comments and uncontrolled rage just because I said something you disagreed with. If you find any mistake, feel free to point it out and I’ll be happy to stand corrected.

In a very oversimplified way, there are three basic ‘components’ here:

* Lyrics: The ‘poem’ of a song.

* Music: The main melody and the chord progression behind it.

* Arrangements: What the bass does, what the guitar does, whether there is a guitar or not, which parts have backing vocals and what they do, etc.

Usually, the people credited (and paid) for the authorship of a song are the ones who did the first two. I always use Guns ‘n’ Roses’ cover of ‘Knocking on Heaven’s Door’ as an example: GnR changed the key, altered the vocal melody, added guitar solos, bass parts, rhythm guitar parts, keyboard parts, drum beats and backing vocal parts that were not in the original version, but the song is still Bob Dylan’s, because at the end of the day they kept his lyrics and all the guitar parts, etc., were dictated by the chord progression he’d written prior. You can find loads of covers and renditions of ‘Knocking on Heaven’s Door’, in reggae version, as a chamber piece, as a choir piece, etc., and Dylan had no participation on any of those, but the song is still his.

Now, usually, classical music composers and soundtrack composers, etc., they write all parts for all instruments. They use standard music notation and then they get people who can read such notation (e.g., members of a professional orchestra) to play them with the instructions they’ve indicated (pitch and duration of each note, tempo, volume, dynamics, special techniques).

It also happens in some bands or groups (not necessarily exclusively classical or exclusively jazz or exclusively rock) where they all (or most) can read and write music notation, they use that to communicate what the composer wants. Les Luthiers are a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S4yr06zceU

The man who composed that piece (the one who’s playing the homemade trumpet, which he also designed by the way) wrote the music score for all instruments (which are plenty, as the five of them are changing instruments as they go along) and since they can all read music notation, they used that to learn their parts.

Now… many (but not all) rock bands, folk bands, etc., are largely formed by people whose approach to music is chiefly (and often, but not always, exclusively) playing by ear, and they usually (but not always) cannot read music notation, let alone sight-read ‘a prima vista.’

What happens then? To be continued…

Now, let’s say you’re a member of a rock band, or a folk group, or a ceilidh band, etc. and you wrote a song (words + chords). Now, let’s say it’s time to record it and the question of what to do about the bass line pops up. Usually, there are four scenarios:

* Scenario A: You compose (arrange) a bass-line and play it yourself.

* Scenario B: You compose (arrange) a bass-line and teach it to the bass player so he/she records it.

* Scenario C: You and the bass-player discuss the bass-line and he/she records it with your supervision and approval.

* Scenario D: You ask the bass-player to write and play a bass-line.

To elaborate a bit:

Scenario A of this example (bass) is very common when the person who wrote the song happens to be the bass player of the band. We can safely assume that John wrote all (or at least most of) the bass parts he played on his own songs. Sometimes the composer is not the bass player but he/she decides to record the bass anyway because it saves time and because they have a very clear idea of what they want. It happened sometimes in Queen: Sheer Heart Attack (Roger), Dancer (Brian, playing bass on a synth), Body Language (Freddie, playing bass on a synth).

Scenario B: If you and your bass player can read music notation then it’s simply a matter of writing the score. If not, then there are still ways to teach them what you want: you can record a demo with your playing (happened a lot in The Who, for instance) for the bass player to learn his/her part and practise it so by the time of the recordings they he/she knows it by heart; you can also show him/her what you want by playing it yourself, either on bass or (if bass is not your thing) on a guitar, piano, or even singing it or humming it. Sometimes the bass line happens to be chiefly (or exclusively) just doubling what another instrument does, so it’s even easier to teach him/her what to do. The bass on ‘Tie Your Mother Down’ is most of the time just doubling the guitar an octave lower, so whoever wrote the guitar part also wrote the bass part; on a big part of ‘Bo Rhap’ the bass is doubling the left hand of the piano, so whoever wrote one wrote the other.

Scenario C: You’ve got a general idea of what you want but don’t know or don’t care too much about the specific notes and stuff, so you’re more like ‘ok mate, on the first verse I don’t want you to play anything, then on the first chorus you play just the root of the chord every beat, then on the second verse I want you to do some arpeggios and from then there’s a jam session so just do whatever you want.’ You’re not specifying which exact notes to play and when (for the arpeggios, for instance), but you’re still in charge. Another variant can be if you recorded a demo and then the bass player came up with some ideas on how to improve the bass part and you like them so the final arrangement is a bit of a collaboration.

Scenario D: You can’t, or don’t want to, write the bass-part so you give the bass player carte blanche to do as he/she pleases. More often than not, however, the person who wrote the song still retains some moral rights to ‘veto’ the part if they don’t find it satisfactory.

Then it’s the same process with every instrument, backing vocal, etc.

Usually, for Queen, it’d be Scenario B or C, depending on the era.

People tend to assume that in rock it’s always Scenario D but actually, there are many exceptions:

* Eagles: Glenn Fry was quite specific about the instrumentation, and he’d often decide what each person would play on the songs he and Henley wrote (Henley was usually more into the lyrics, which were fantastic). Don Felder had a similar approach: he’d often (though not always) record demos where he played all instruments and then the band used them to learn their individual parts.

* Beatles: When the songs had any outsiders, it was usually (though not always) George Martin who wrote the score for them (e.g., violin players, trumpet players, etc.), based on whatever the author of the song wanted. When the songs were completely performed by members of the band, usually Paul would write all parts for all instruments, though there were exceptions (e.g., ‘Drive My Car’). He’d also routinely teach John and George the parts he wanted them to sing.

* Kansas: All of the violin, viola and cello parts that Steindhart played were composed, note for note, by Kerry Livgren. Livgren didn’t play any of those instruments, but he still composed for them and used music notation to convey what he wanted.

* Iron Maiden: Other than the actual guitar solos, Harris usually writes everything for every instrument and then teaches it to the rest of the band.

* Queen

By the way, not being a bassist doesn’t disable you from composing great bass parts. Same for every instrument.
Freddie was a great composer of guitar parts, even though he himself wasn’t a great player. Brian’s not a world-class bassist, but he’s really wonderful at writing bass parts (which were then very beautifully played by John and Neil and others). John’s not a singer, but he wrote excellent vocal parts (which were then sung by his bandmates).

"By the way, not being a bassist doesn’t disable you from composing great bass parts. Same for every instrument.
Freddie was a great composer of guitar parts, even though he himself wasn’t a great player. Brian’s not a world-class bassist, but he’s really wonderful at writing bass parts (which were then very beautifully played by John and Neil and others). John’s not a singer, but he wrote excellent vocal parts (which were then sung by his bandmates). "


If Brian can write such great parts, why the hell does most of The Cosmos Rocks have such dire, plodding, marking time, bass parts so clearly lacking in a proper bassist's input?!?

As usual, very thorough and well thought post from Sebastian.
Good point about The Cosmos Rocks lacking imaginative bass playing. Some things that glitter comes to mind. Brian kinda tried there but I think John would have done wonders with it.
Brian apparently had many distractions at the time of TCR. His songs are well produced - even a cheesy rocker like Still Burnin' has great guitar - but he let go a bit on other songs. 'Laid back' doesn't necessarily mean 'sloppy', Bri. Even if some of his solos kinda 'grow on you' after a while, I can only imagine what Brian could have accomplished if he had been devoted to the project like with MIH.

[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]

If Brian can write such great parts, why the hell does most of The Cosmos Rocks have such dire, plodding, marking time, bass parts so clearly lacking in a proper bassist's input?!?[/QUOTE]

Because musicians don't excel at 100% of what they do 100% of the time. Freddie was a magnificent songwriter and a very creative pianist, but his one and only solo album lacks a lot on both aspects (except when he's not playing). Roger's an outstanding drummer, but his performance on some concerts in the early 2000s were far, far, far below his usual level. They've all got good and bad moments. TCR was a good album for Brian, but it pales in comparison with nearly everything else he's been involved in, where he's 'excellent', 'magnificent' or simply 'May-estic' rather than just 'good.'

Is it really fair to level all the criticism of the bass playing on Brian? Paul also played bass. Any way to tell who played bass on what? I'd ask Brian but I doubt he'd want to talk about the album...

I think that's a different topic to this one, but anyway: FAIK, the three of them played bass, the three of them played guitar, the three of them played keyboards and the three of them sang.

Holy freaking heck, Sebastian..........awesome thread you started....

For one example, I always heard that Freddie wrote the guitar parts for Ogre Battle.....which is kind of a complex riff really.........though he only played guitar on one song for Queen........and I thought he pretty much wrote ALL of BoRhap...........tho I never knew how much of that was written vs arranged.......

To be fair, the riff is not that complex ... it's fast, but the structure of it, clever and all, is not too alien. It's more related to having creativity (which Freddie had plenty of) than with being an accomplished guitarist.

Freddie played on CLTCL but it doesn't mean that was the only time he did it. Witness recollections point out at more instances of that happening, although I don't know whether his guitar ever remained on the final versions in any other track. Maybe, maybe not.

On 'Bo Rhap', reportedly Brian wrote the solo and he sang it (yeah, sang it) to Freddie, Freddie liked it and gave it his blessing. Otherwise most of the arrangement on the song is his, including all of the vocal harmonies.

my Two Cents:

It's easy to distinguish where Brian did not had influence on the guitar. Ogre Battle is a good example because the main riff is something natural that you do when you are not used to play guitar (playing notes in open strings), and Brian riffs are usually non linear but more harmonic oriented.

John's bass runs are easy to notice too, he usually adds a lot of depth to the bass work, without showing off too much. Silent, precise but fun and with a lot of sense of the groove of the song.

Freddie's guitar parts usually had chords that are more natural in piano than guitar. I notice that even in CLTCL which only wants to sound rockabilly.

Roger's guitar parts are a little bit flat for my taste. They sound rough and a bit like Lennon or Dylan.


Nice topic.

[QUOTE] [b]Ozz wrote:[/b]



John's bass runs are easy to notice too, he usually adds a lot of depth to the bass work, without showing off too much. Silent, precise but fun and with a lot of sense of the groove of the song.



Nice topic.
[/QUOTE]

Heh...........thats just a good summation of John's bass playing in general.........seriously underrated bass player..........

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
Freddie played on CLTCL but it doesn't mean that was the only time he did it. Witness recollections point out at more instances of that happening, although I don't know whether his guitar ever remained on the final versions in any other track. Maybe, maybe not.
[/QUOTE]

What witnesses mention Freddie playing guitar and (roughly) when? Any quotes or any additional detail would be appreciated. :)

I just realized that I've never seen an image of Freddie playing guitar in a recording studio. I seem to recall one of him playing it while sitting on a sofa, though.

Thanks!

[QUOTE] [b]Wiley wrote:[/b]

I just realized that I've never seen an image of Freddie playing guitar in a recording studio. I seem to recall one of him playing it while sitting on a sofa, though.

Thanks![/QUOTE]


What about this cute pic:

http://i.imgur.com/dd29rUg.jpg

here's the quote

[QUOTE] [b]Reinhold Mack wrote:[/b]

Freddie
said, “Can we do this real quick? I just have an idea
I want to get down as a reference so I don’t forget it.
Don’t worry, I can’t play guitar!” I put him in a little
booth right next to the control room and, since I had
everything else set up, he asked if we could go for
sounds. I said, “Just put it down. It’ll be alright.” He
said, “We’ve never done that.” I said, “It doesn’t
matter. Trust me, it will work!” We put a track down
and, being good musicians as they are, that is the
track you hear! Freddie said, “Let’s do this real quick,
before Brian [May] comes. Otherwise it will take
weeks to get it done.” So, we had the basic structure
[to “Crazy Little Thing Called Love”]. The next thing
was a couple of overdubs.

[/QUOTE]

.........