A comparison of Live at the Rainbow (2014) and previous versions

That's true. I'm trying to think of cases where the Queen sign being visible could also prove something in the audio comes from the first night... It'd have to coincide with a discrepancy, and both Freddie's mouth movements and the Queen sign would have to be visible in the same shot, or in clearly sequential shots. Then, it might be of some use.

I might investigate at some point, but it'd require watching the whole 2014 version, noting points where the sign and Freddie's mouth movements are visible, and THEN looking through those and seeing if there's any already known audio discrepancies at those points. i.e. It's a pretty big task for something that may well not end up proving anything.

On a barely really related note, was the sign only used at the Rainbow, or was it used often on the SHA tour? I never noticed it to exist until the 2014 release - looking back at the VHS video and knowing it there, it's vaguely visible at points, but I'd never have seen it without knowing it was there.

A great pdf! I love stuff like this. Comparing it to other similar live material (Bowie at Hammersmith '73 David Live '74, Gary Glitter and The Sweet Rainbow '73 / 74) I'd argue that some of the digital artefacts are due to the rough nature of recording live 'rock' vocals at this time rather than dishonest pitch correcting. But agree that there is definitely evidence of this! So glad we have this release - certainly a better quality historical document than the above mentioned releases. The Bowie 73 one is notable for having blatant Bowie backing vocals which were added in the studio throughout the 70s at various points until it's first official release in 1983.

RE the sign - totally with you on that. I had no idea. Would've been nice to see it better. Should've spent some of the nail varnish budget on light bulbs :)

[QUOTE] [b]tomchristie22 wrote:[/b]

It's a pretty big task for something that may well not end up proving anything. [/QUOTE]

Ding.

There just isn't enough research material. If we had an audience tape of one of the two nights, like with Montreal 81, so much more progress could be made.

[QUOTE] [b]tomchristie22 wrote:[/b]

On a barely really related note, was the sign only used at the Rainbow, or was it used often on the SHA tour?[/QUOTE]

Nope, just at the Rainbow show(s).

One person commented on the youtube "video" of Rainbow TFFMS that he had it on bootleg. So the question arises if there is an audience recording of a full march show ?

[QUOTE] [b]MercurialFreddie wrote:[/b]

One person commented on the youtube "video" of Rainbow TFFMS that he had it on bootleg. So the question arises if there is an audience recording of a full march show ?[/QUOTE]

Did the person provide any proof?

No, only claimed that he had it and boasted about it, trying to make everybody else jealous.

Great job, thanks for uploading. As handy a guide as Sir GH's Live Killers analysis

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]GinjaNinja wrote:[/b]

Also, it seems that they (at least for the main part of the set) had the "Queen" sign up behind them only on the first night, so that could also help to identify which nights the songs are from.[/QUOTE]

Interesting - how do you know this for sure?

And of course, this only counts for the video and not the audio necessarily..[/QUOTE]

If you take a look at Stone Cold Crazy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Rfb1Jtmic
It's clear that there is no sign at the back, there are several shots with decent lighting that show this.

Then compare that to Keep Yourself Alive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBrb0jIR2_8
At 0:36 you can see that the sign is up. (You can also see this during SSOR, which comes right before Stone Cold Crazy in the setlist).

Thus the sign was only visible at the back (at least during the main set, it may have been revealed for the encore) during one of the nights.

I've checked my recording of Flick Of The Wrist from the 1st night (at the SiS exhibition), (http://www.mediafire.com/watch/jfl4fi4ji2bv31i/FOTW_(At_The_Rainbow).mp4) and the segment from about 0:46 to 2:00 matches up exactly with the segment from 24:11 on the DVD.

You can't make it out clearly on my recording, but on the DVD you can see the sign in the background several times. This means shots from the main set (at least) with the sign in the background are from the first night. (If we want to be more thorough we could also use this to attempt to identify camera angles which are only used on a single night, but I don't think anyone has enough time for that!)

Now this calls into question the idea that Stone Cold Crazy is entirely from the first night. Do we know that the 3-track reel itself is unedited? The tracks on it may not be necessarily from the same night.

[QUOTE] [b]NickESB wrote:[/b]

Great job, thanks for uploading. As handy a guide as Sir GH's Live Killers analysis[/QUOTE]

The artist formerly known as Sir GH ;)

[QUOTE] [b]GinjaNinja wrote:[/b]

Now this calls into question the idea that Stone Cold Crazy is entirely from the first night. Do we know that the 3-track reel itself is unedited? The tracks on it may not be necessarily from the same night.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent detective work, sir !!

The three tracks we have do indeed have overdubs, but we have been assured by Gary Taylor that they are otherwise from the Nov 19 show.

If that's the case, then what we have is audio from the 19th and video from the 20th. It's not out of the question, is it ?!

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]GinjaNinja wrote:[/b]

Now this calls into question the idea that Stone Cold Crazy is entirely from the first night. Do we know that the 3-track reel itself is unedited? The tracks on it may not be necessarily from the same night.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent detective work, sir !!

The three tracks we have do indeed have overdubs, but we have been assured by Gary Taylor that they are otherwise from the Nov 19 show.

If that's the case, then what we have is audio from the 19th and video from the 20th. It's not out of the question, is it ?![/QUOTE]

The audio being from the 19th and the video from the 20th seems right, yeah. I don't think they'd have had too much trouble making it sync up, though it does raise the question - why didn't they just use the footage from the night which would have matched the audio they were using?

Perhaps the second night just has better shots. It could even be that the first night audio they used does retain lead vocal overdubs, making it not always match the first night's footage.

Very good thread - and great research by all involved!

[QUOTE] [b]tomchristie22 wrote:[/b]

The audio being from the 19th and the video from the 20th seems right, yeah. I don't think they'd have had too much trouble making it sync up, though it does raise the question - why didn't they just use the footage from the night which would have matched the audio they were using?

Perhaps the second night just has better shots. It could even be that the first night audio they used does retain lead vocal overdubs, making it not always match the first night's footage. [/QUOTE]

So many questions, so few answers.

Also note that Freddie's spoken introduction of Stone Cold Crazy on the official releases is a compilation of both shows, as this differs from the three uncut songs.

Another tidbit - Brian's guitar on the final fanfare of Son And Daughter is from the 20th. On the uncut audio (again, going with the 19th), the 1992 Box of Trix version and the 1976 cinema reel, Brian's last chord comes a bit later than Roger and John's button, so they felt the need to clean that one up.