Complete list of material NOT for share

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
I have contempt for people who don't contribute *and openly slander those who do*, and pretend to be experts in something they're not.

See the difference?[/QUOTE]

I see that are adding further caveats to previous message, so maybe you do have a conscience after all.
It still doesn't really apply to me, because I'm just writing your own words back to you, not slandering. ;)

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
All you know about music collecting is a few cherry picked tidbits you've read about on this site. [/QUOTE]

You're almost right, I have pretty much changed my opinion on traders after reading these messages on QZ. I was completely indifferent before the whole Fanthology incident, but that and the latest "No-Fly Zone" have changed my opinion about you.

The trading model worked perfectly before the age of internet when everything had to be physically sent. Now your just trying to eat your cake and have it too: to continue trading as if nothing has changed, and at the same time share whatever material YOU choose to be shared.

Once again - ignorance masquerading as understanding.

Word to the wise from someone with decades of experience to another who has zero - you have added nothing to the dialogue. Just noise.

I've invited you to get involved so you can learn. But then you'd have to give up your baseless drivel and droning on and on about things you know nothing about, and we can't have that. What would the announce forum be without people who condemn those who enable this section of the forum to exist in the first place?

You're not as smart as you think you are.

Good luck with that.

[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]


The trading model worked perfectly before the age of internet when everything had to be physically sent. Now your just trying to eat your cake and have it too: to continue trading as if nothing has changed, and at the same time share whatever material YOU choose to be shared.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry to butt in. The last sentence made me wonder what is the basis for your resentment that people choose what to share. Do you expect your rich neighbour to give you everything that he has ?

Unless one knows what they actually have and did not share, how can anyone keep harping on this point. When they actually share, you gripe that it is of no value anymore and that is why it is shared. It is like heads you win, tails they lose.

You have said that you do not download anything here. Why then are you so worked up about the trading and sharing of things here ?

[QUOTE]

[b]The Real Wizard wrote: [/b] Once again - ignorance masquerading as understanding.

Word to the wise from someone with decades of experience to another who has zero - you have added nothing to the dialogue. Just noise.

I've invited you to get involved so you can learn. But then you'd have to give up your baseless drivel and droning on and on about things you know nothing about, and we can't have that. What would the announce forum be without people who condemn those who enable this section of the forum to exist in the first place?

You're not as smart as you think you are.

Good luck with that.
[/QUOTE]

You're not as smart as you think you are, as Mr. Bob (Sir GH) said. If I were you, I would get involved to learn and start trading, or at least learn.

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]You have said that you do not download anything here. Why then are you so worked up about the trading and sharing of things here ?[/QUOTE]

For want of a better assumption, he probably just wants something he can lazily latch on to and BAM become a hero for...well, some sort of folk out there.

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]

It is like heads you win, tails they lose.[/QUOTE]

Convenient, ain't it?

Excellent post.

[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]You have said that you do not download anything here. Why then are you so worked up about the trading and sharing of things here ?[/QUOTE]

For want of a better assumption, he probably just wants something he can lazily latch on to and BAM become a hero for...well, some sort of folk out there.[/QUOTE]

The reality is actually pretty much the exact opposite.

My interest was raised by the Fanthology incident when some of the traders said that they were going to share the same exact recordings, but somebody betrayed their trust and beat them to it.

I pointed out that the entire definition of being a trader is trading the material, not giving it away. The only thing traders can benefit by sharing the material freely is personal fame, but it's even more important to be able to trade it as much as possible.
The latest incident also brought out the money angle ("why shouldn't I be able to profit from this release if XXX company is going to profit from this same material").

This is a 100% truthful portrayal of traders, and it's only fair that it should be pointed out when they start publicly posting about the noble purposes, or trying to discredit other people for doing the same exact things they are doing themselves.

If anybody is uploading anything for personal fame or hero status then they are barking up the wrong tree. Can anybody name the guy who shared his Boston '76 recording? some can, but not many. Whoever uploads anything here is no hero in any sense of the word neither is the person who may have sourced that recording. The only hero, if any in the equation is the taper, the person who was there and took the time to archive and distribute the recording. Anybody else in the chain is just a drone, a worker bee.

I know many people who have shared their own recordings here and imho these are the people we should be grateful too, not some middleman who shelled out a few quid or acquired the recording thru trading etc.

Take the recent Sheffield upload for example, I am eternally grateful that Brians Wig sourced this recording and got it out but he is not a hero, I doubt very much he considers himself a hero, in fact I know he does not , the person who sat there with a recorder 41 years ago, a hero he just might be...

I really do wish when somebody shares material that they could say this was recorded by xxx you can contact them here xxx to say thanks. Thats the way it should be.

(end rant)

I agree. Great comment!

[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]

The reality is actually pretty much the exact opposite[/QUOTE]
Your reality. You're just limited by your selective knowledge on the subject.

[QUOTE]I pointed out that the entire definition of being a trader is trading the material, not giving it away.[/QUOTE]
Which is incorrect. You are simplifying and using an ad hominem to further your own agenda.

[QUOTE]This is a 100% truthful portrayal of traders, and it's only fair that it should be pointed out when they start publicly posting about the noble purposes, or trying to discredit other people for doing the same exact things they are doing themselves.[/QUOTE]
Here it is folks - the truth, presented by someone who has precisely zero experience doing the act his expertise is in. The next time I need a mechanic to fix my car, I'll be sure to go to an environmentalist who owns a shop selling bikes.

Why are you investing so much of your day being a broken record about something you admittedly know nothing about? It really is pathetic.

[QUOTE] [b]Marknow wrote:[/b]

If anybody is uploading anything for personal fame or hero status then they are barking up the wrong tree. Can anybody name the guy who shared his Boston '76 recording? some can, but not many. Whoever uploads anything here is no hero in any sense of the word neither is the person who may have sourced that recording. The only hero, if any in the equation is the taper, the person who was there and took the time to archive and distribute the recording. Anybody else in the chain is just a drone, a worker bee.

I know many people who have shared their own recordings here and imho these are the people we should be grateful too, not some middleman who shelled out a few quid or acquired the recording thru trading etc.

Take the recent Sheffield upload for example, I am eternally grateful that Brians Wig sourced this recording and got it out but he is not a hero, I doubt very much he considers himself a hero, in fact I know he does not , the person who sat there with a recorder 41 years ago, a hero he just might be...

I really do wish when somebody shares material that they could say this was recorded by xxx you can contact them here xxx to say thanks. Thats the way it should be.

(end rant)[/QUOTE]

Excellent post. It is, and always has been, about getting the music out there. Let's just not forget that without the worker bees, sometimes those tapes will never leave the attic. Everyone's role is paramount. But of course when the taper is known, they are always and unequivocally noted as being the most important person in the chain (unless they request not to be).

And the village buffoon agrees with us.

So why is he upset at collectors and holding baseless assumptions that they are looking for personal glory and have ulterior motives for putting music out there?

Regardless of his protests - things are what they are, and new music will continue to come. And he and a few others will continue to vilify those who are doing the work to bring the music to places like this.

Oh well.

I won't even bring up the conundrum of what happens when the taper themselves is the hoarder. Who's the hero then if the tape gets out? But we wouldn't want to advance beyond binary thinking and have a real discussion or anything.

I fully consider myself to be no more than a worker bee too btw. Though of no significant value as an individual the little I and others do does contribute to the greater good of the hive. For me there is great personal joy in getting material out when I can, I certainly would not step on any toes in the process.

I like to think I contribute when I can but I do nothing unique, for me there is a great joy in sharing material, to see others enjoy it, to have it discussed and even criticised. To archive it for public consumption. I'm genuinely passionate about getting as much out as possible. I know it's corny but it is all about those four guys on the stage, nothing more.

The music deserves to be archived.

[QUOTE]

[b]The Real Wizard wrote: [/b] I won't even bring up the conundrum of what happens when the taper themselves is the hoarder. Who's the hero then if the tape gets out? But we wouldn't want to advance beyond binary thinking and have a real discussion or anything.
[/QUOTE]

I think calling somebody a hoarder is a very nasty thing to do under any circumstance. Any individual does not hold onto a recording just for the sake of it. Whomever records material should not be vilified for not wanting to share it.

I remember Gary Larson(The Far Side) popped up on Reddit a few years ago and asked that his material not be posted because it was like seeing his children out on the street without his knowledge, I can understand that, anybody who cannot needs to think about it again. Same goes for recordings, anything that is put out there without consent of the taper is diminished as a result.

[QUOTE] [b]Marknow wrote:[/b]

I fully consider myself to be no more than a worker bee too btw. Though of no significant value as an individual the little I and others do does contribute to the greater good of the hive. For me there is great personal joy in getting material out when I can, I certainly would not step on any toes in the process.

I like to think I contribute when I can but I do nothing unique, for me there is a great joy in sharing material, to see others enjoy it, to have it discussed and even criticised. To archive it for public consumption. I'm genuinely passionate about getting as much out as possible. I know it's corny but it is all about those four guys on the stage, nothing more.

The music deserves to be archived.[/QUOTE]

Good post!

[QUOTE] [b]Marknow wrote:[/b]

I think calling somebody a hoarder is a very nasty thing to do under any circumstance. Any individual does not hold onto a recording just for the sake of it. Whomever records material should not be vilified for not wanting to share it.[/QUOTE]

You're right - the word 'hoarder' does carry a lot of baggage. I just used the word to illustrate a point to someone else posting in this thread, not because I have a sense of entitlement for what isn't mine.

So let's go with it. What happens if you manage to strike a deal with a taper and acquire a copy his tape, but he doesn't want you to circulate it? Do you reject the offer because a couple trolls on a forum will call you a bad person for respecting someone's wishes? Or do you graciously accept because it's your right to do so?