The Passion of Christ

Guitar Hero: much of what you say is true, there is a dishonest church, and you mean to tell me that is not a sin. "Forgive me father for I have wandered" (meaning he disgraced his family). Isn't that a "sin"?

I let people believe what they want to believe. I'm free to choose my own way. I have a friend who is a protestant, he is a quadriplegic. If I could have only a grain of faith and joy that this man has, I would be a happier person. I teese him and I say, Puro, if you were catholic they would proclaim you a saint.

I am not afraid of God. I believe in a loving, all forgiving God. I am a catholic, but I like to define myself as a daughter of God who believes in Jesus. I don't swallow everything the catholic church wants to feed me. All those priests who have abused children will have to answer to God, just like all who abuse and kill. I rather preach with my example of life than with my words. I'm not perfect, but I try to follow the teaching of God, the teaching of love, caring and forgiveness, and I love God and Jesus not out of fear of condemnation.

I'm sorry to say this, but you seem to be an angry person. The words you wrote "cock suckers queenzones" are angry words.
I don't understand, are you angry because catholics, christians are not responding to your posts? or are you angry because we catholic "robbot thinkers" do not agree totally with you.
Your post is too long. If I was in front of you we could talk about each point, but I'm not a good writer like you. I need time to think each question, that's why sometimes I don't respond right away.

I do what your heart and conscience dictates me, that's why God gave it to us.

MamaQueen, you are obviously not one of those people that I like to poke fun at. You are a good and honest Catholic who knows what they're talking about. :) I'm sorry I was harsh on people like yourself before. It was totally wrong. I suppose I was just getting frustrated. But I'm certainly not an angry person, and I didn't say all Catholics were "robot thinkers". I was just pointing at those who blindly take in everything the church tells them. Of course that's not all of them! I'm sorry you felt the need to justify your desire to wait until you post.

"Someone has gone soft, and believes in god only when it is convenient for him, and it seems his belief in God is for insurance purposes only."

Absolutely not. My place in this topic was not to say things like that. I just professed such a thing just to show people that I have a decent and caring side, as opposed to this hard and intellectual side.

So I'm done in this topic.

P.S. I used the words "cocksucker QZers" because I thought all the honest and intellectual posters were gone from this place. You know, sometimes it's good to be wrong.

Guitar Hero, it's too bad to see you go away because I recently finished my research papers, and I have some time on my hands to debate your issues to the fullest.

First off, you said, "Catholics have been doing the same thing for ages and ages, and not one person has ever come forward to question whether or not what they're doing is correct. Mindless, religious robots, scared into believing anything they're told. Fundamentalism at its best."

Scared into believing? That is a ridiculous comment! I can say the same thing about you or anybody else. Just because you believe something doesn't mean that fear was instilled in you to do so. Catholicism preaches free will, we have the choice to do good or bad.

Second, why do you say that nobody ever speaks up? Does Martin Luther ring a bell? What about the Vatican councils? People have had to be expressing discontent and feel some sort of seperation if the church had agreed to make changes.

Fundamentalism? Once again, as a Catholic you have free will. Unlike certain Protestand groups who believe in predestination. THe church allows people to voice their views and express their concerns. Maybe you might see that a bit difficult to beleive, but you must understand that the Catholic Church is a large institution, and there has to be some sort of order. Unlike many Protestant churches in the US, where you have a new sect forming every other day, you have small communities and issues can be addressed quicker on a smaller scale.

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Krowa, I appreciate you going through the effort for this!

"Scared into believing? That is a ridiculous comment! I can say the same thing about you or anybody else. Just because you believe something doesn't mean that fear was instilled in you to do so. Catholicism preaches free will, we have the choice to do good or bad."

Okay, I'll partially retract what I said, and I'll say that *too many* people are scared into their faith, and do not question anything. I've attended masses at Catholic churches before, and I've seen the priest with my own eyes, threatening his congregation, saying that they'll go to hell if they do not fulfull God's word in its entirety. I was almost sick to my stomach. I was only there because it was my cousin's confirmation.

My words are based on not only the literature I have read, but also the three Catholic churches I have been in. They all have used similar methods to the above. The priest told everyone exactly what to do, and how to do it. I don't understand where the freedom part comes in. But I'm glad there are Catholic churches that give that freedom of choice. I hope these places are the future of religion, and not the fundamentalist places that I feel are a waste of space.

So with that in mind, I now realize that all Catholic churches are not nearly as right-wing as Protestant and Baptist churches around. :) Those places can be scaaaary.

"People used the terms "God's word" or "God's wish" to justify their actions."

They do this because it's a lot easier than taking reponsibility for their own actions, good or bad.

In this whole discussion, I'm glad I've learned there are open-minded Catholics around who are able to talk to about their faith, and it was quite fulfulling to learn that they're all not robots like at the Catholic and Baptist churches I've been to. Way to go folks. Keep on thinking and learning!

However, I will still maintain my views on Fundamentalism and how utterly wrong it is, and how much these people are destroying themselves, and those who they preach their word to. I will also maintain that there are flaws in the bible, and major flaws in the way certain faiths deal with the bible; reading, as opposed to reading and interpreting.

In the end, I will always respect those who go on a spiritual journey throughout their lives. I will never respect those who feel they have already reached the pinnacle of the journey, because in your lifetime, you never will.

Guitar Hero, I am not sure I can see you whole argument on fundamentalism very clearly. Can you elaborate further?

'Anti-Catholicism is still the last acceptable prejudice'

You're kidding me, right? If a politician says something anti-Catholic, people call for them to be drawn and quartered. But our President drapes an arm around Rick Santorum when he makes disgusting, homophobic comments.

But I do agree with you that anti-Catholicism is a problem. People associate Catholics with weird, freakish people who molest little kids. That's wrong.

If Mel Gibson wants to make anti-Semitic trash, that's his business. We don't have to watch it.

"If Mel Gibson wants to make anti-Semitic trash, that's his business. We don't have to watch it."

It's that simple

Bearing in mind that NOT ONE of you has seen this movie yet, why are you already labeling it anti-semetic? You have already seen how Guy has labeled MrJangles anti-semetic SOLELY to try to shut him up - couldn't the same thing be happening to Gibson's movie? Make your own mind up and don't let other people do your thinking for you.

"Guitar Hero, I am not sure I can see you whole argument on fundamentalism very clearly. Can you elaborate further?"

I've really had enough of this topic, to be honest.

I've stated all I can state. Fundamentalism is pure brainwash. These people don't think for themselves, and they quote the bible at every opportunity, because they feel that they have to convert people into born-again Christians for a living.

I said before, they are only hurting themselves, which is their own problem. It only bugs me when they convert people, and then they become like them... like it's a disease.

Religion can be a beautiful thing, but this specfic practice seems like some kind of abuse.

Ofcourse you know what's going on in my head so you know I said that to shut him up, right?

If he wouldn't say anti-semitic statements I wouldn't call him that.

Krowa, make an effort and read the WHOLE thread. Everything is in there. Interesting is that you didn't reply to 90% of what has been said...

<< If he wouldn't say anti-semitic statements I wouldn't call him that. >> Guy, if you want to think they're anti-semitic, then that's your opinion. But that's because you can only see one side of the conflict.

Umm no, we have plenty of reporters here who report from the Palestinian side.

You're right, Holly, I stand corrected. I have not seen the film, nor do I plan to. But I have heard reports from both sides, and those associated with the making of the film are not very convincing.

Of course, I have tried on several different forums, mostly populated by very intelligent (?) people, to defend Mel Gibson's right to make the film as well as their right to call him a yellow-bellied son of a bitch. Each time I am then labeled as an anti-Semitic beast who is encouraging the spread of filth. (I will decline to mention that my best friend is Jewish.) Pretty much everybody involved is acting stupidly. Can we please come up with a way to deal with it that 1) does not involve censorshiop, and 2) does not involve ripping out anyone's throat?

I say that we don't go see it if we don't want to. You could do the same thing with "Fatal Attraction".