No - it is not a typo. It is a reference to the fact that the track HAD once BEEN a "Smile" song which was revived for the occassion. (Ofcourse - it is performed by Queen during the BBC session).
Edit: The reason for the inclusion of that trivial piece of info was - that by the time fans were able to buy the track officially (it never appreared until "Queen II" - and only then as the "Seven Seas Of Rhye" B-side) it had already been a Brian May/Queen staple which had undergone many changes before final release. This "unreleased" BBC version (to my mind) is the bridge between the "Smile" and the "Queen II" variations.
Queen: Unreleased BBC Radio Session, 25th July 1973 – Freddie’s Boys At The Beeb
Freddie’s Boys At The Beeb Bootleg LP
From The Beeb To Tokyo Bootleg CD
Recorded 25.07.1973. Broadcast 13.08.1973. Studio Langham 1, Bob Harris Sounds Of The Seventies. Produced by Jeff Griffin. Engineered by Chris Lycett & John Etchells. Originally aired as a three-track session. Repeated 24.09.1973 (including a fourth, bonus track, Keep Yourself Alive). All pre 1980 BBC radio sessions officially erased.
See What A Fool I’ve Been (Smile: Royal Albert Hall 27th February 1969)
Liar
Son And Daughter
(Keep Yourself Alive)
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Nice list, but what about the "Pre-Ordained" thingy? I have to admit, I have really no clue what it is all about - I have it here on CD, but it is a kind of compilation of Smile songs and some other weird songs in really bad bad quality. Is Pre-Ordained valid in the Queen catalogue?
Juls, Pre-Ordained is a mixture of the Smile songs and some Peter Straker songs that were produced by Freddie Mercury. I believe neither Freddie nor any other Queen members feature on these Straker recordings.
John, thanks for clearing up that Smile reference
John, thanks for clearing up that Smile reference
Chaka: No - it is not a typo. It is a reference to the fact that the track HAD once BEEN a "Smile" song which was revived for the occassion. (Ofcourse - it is performed by Queen during the BBC session).
Edit: The reason for the inclusion of that trivial piece of info was - that by the time fans were able to buy the track officially (it never appreared until "Queen II" - and only then as the "Seven Seas Of Rhye" B-side) it had already been a Brian May/Queen staple which had undergone many changes before final release. This "unreleased" BBC version (to my mind) is the bridge between the "Smile" and the "Queen II" variations.
What do you think?
Queen: Unreleased BBC Radio Session, 25th July 1973 – Freddie’s Boys At The Beeb
Freddie’s Boys At The Beeb Bootleg LP
From The Beeb To Tokyo Bootleg CD
Recorded 25.07.1973. Broadcast 13.08.1973. Studio Langham 1, Bob Harris Sounds Of The Seventies. Produced by Jeff Griffin. Engineered by Chris Lycett & John Etchells. Originally aired as a three-track session. Repeated 24.09.1973 (including a fourth, bonus track, Keep Yourself Alive). All pre 1980 BBC radio sessions officially erased.
See What A Fool I’ve Been (Smile: Royal Albert Hall 27th February 1969)
Liar
Son And Daughter
(Keep Yourself Alive)
Edit: The reason for the inclusion of that trivial piece of info was - that by the time fans were able to buy the track officially (it never appreared until "Queen II" - and only then as the "Seven Seas Of Rhye" B-side) it had already been a Brian May/Queen staple which had undergone many changes before final release. This "unreleased" BBC version (to my mind) is the bridge between the "Smile" and the "Queen II" variations.
What do you think?
Queen: Unreleased BBC Radio Session, 25th July 1973 – Freddie’s Boys At The Beeb
Freddie’s Boys At The Beeb Bootleg LP
From The Beeb To Tokyo Bootleg CD
Recorded 25.07.1973. Broadcast 13.08.1973. Studio Langham 1, Bob Harris Sounds Of The Seventies. Produced by Jeff Griffin. Engineered by Chris Lycett & John Etchells. Originally aired as a three-track session. Repeated 24.09.1973 (including a fourth, bonus track, Keep Yourself Alive). All pre 1980 BBC radio sessions officially erased.
See What A Fool I’ve Been (Smile: Royal Albert Hall 27th February 1969)
Liar
Son And Daughter
(Keep Yourself Alive)
It is confusing isn't it - it's all to do with the interpretation of "remixing".
The main difference between remaster and remix:
A remaster is a re-mix too, with the difference, that the original tapes are used and the sound is enhanced, according to the modern technologies. A remaster should sound like an imporved original record. With modern technology it is possible to clear the tracks, to lift and lower frequencies here and there, to achieve an official sound.
A remix uses the original tapes too, but withthe main difference, that some parts from the original recordings are missing, or that other takes are used, or even - see the remixes on Hollywood - new beats, synths, samples etc.
A remaster should never cut away something, which is audible in the original release. The best option is to have the engineer/producer who recorded the original tapes doing the remaster.
Remasters are quite important nowadays,because our equipment changed over the last 20-30 years - drastically - remember vinyl, and with the modern way of remastering we can achieve a sound that is necessary for the equipment used today.
The only problem is, that a remasters quality is always depending on the remastering engineer, and if he has no relation to the original recording, or the band, the sound itself, a remaster can be quite disappointing.
Juls: So my answer to Chaka's question -
Hollywood's 1991 remix is a (by your definition) not a real-remix - but a remaster - is correct? This is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that.
So I didn't "blag" anyone after all!
Hollywood's 1991 remix is a (by your definition) not a real-remix - but a remaster - is correct? This is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that.
So I didn't "blag" anyone after all!
Juls: So my answer to Chaka's question -
Hollywood's 1991 remix is a (by your definition) not a real-remix - but a remaster - is correct? This is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that.
So I didn't "blag" anyone after all!
Yes, correct. If they would have released it before, and then restored it for a release, it would have been called remaster. But I think there is no previously released version of this song, so it is not necessary to call it remix or remaster. They mastered it: restoring, transfer to digital device and mastering for CD purpose (quite sure with some EQ-ing here and there)
If they had put on new tracks (what I don't know, and don't think) the word "remix" would fit better.
Here's some info on what mastering can be:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/bobkatz.htm?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
http://www.digido.com/
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb00/articles/david.htm?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Apr02/articles/izotopeozone.asp?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar00/articles/tcfinalizer.htm?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
I'll take a listen to Mad The Swine tomorrow. Mastering is definitely involved with the officially released one considering it was attached as a bonus extra on the Hollywood albums. I wonder what the source of the Nuce track is... It doesn't have as much bass end as the official track.
However, as someone said, a remix can simply be retouching levels and more importantly the effects used in the track can be changed. It'll be interesting to see whether tracks were mixed down onto tapes with the original effects from the final mix. Interesting because it's not usually a good idea unless everything sits well and it has been pre-planned, which it kinda was. Otherwise, it will be given an overhaul from the original tapes, without the effects present, and remixed with new effects that resemble the originals. I know, I know...what a palava!
Peace,
Adam.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/bobkatz.htm?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
http://www.digido.com/
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb00/articles/david.htm?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Apr02/articles/izotopeozone.asp?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar00/articles/tcfinalizer.htm?session=9a0fbbcb70c99ec94bbb6632ab2ff079
I'll take a listen to Mad The Swine tomorrow. Mastering is definitely involved with the officially released one considering it was attached as a bonus extra on the Hollywood albums. I wonder what the source of the Nuce track is... It doesn't have as much bass end as the official track.
However, as someone said, a remix can simply be retouching levels and more importantly the effects used in the track can be changed. It'll be interesting to see whether tracks were mixed down onto tapes with the original effects from the final mix. Interesting because it's not usually a good idea unless everything sits well and it has been pre-planned, which it kinda was. Otherwise, it will be given an overhaul from the original tapes, without the effects present, and remixed with new effects that resemble the originals. I know, I know...what a palava!
Peace,
Adam.
The 1991 version of Mad The Swine, whatever mix it is, was first released in the UK as one of the B-sides to 'Headlong' on May 13.
The Hollywood remaster of 'Queen' was released a month later on June 18.
So if it was remixed, it certainly wasn't strictly Hollywood's idea nor should it be implied that Hollywood was responsible.
What always intrigued me was the intro. It's obviously missing a little bit ("I've" is printed in the lyrics) and as I recall, the Nuce version loses even more by fading in. So did the intro get damaged, or was it originally part of a segue, or what?
The Hollywood remaster of 'Queen' was released a month later on June 18.
So if it was remixed, it certainly wasn't strictly Hollywood's idea nor should it be implied that Hollywood was responsible.
What always intrigued me was the intro. It's obviously missing a little bit ("I've" is printed in the lyrics) and as I recall, the Nuce version loses even more by fading in. So did the intro get damaged, or was it originally part of a segue, or what?
=Jeffrey= (Just Keepin' it real), regardless of dates (that is so two-dimensional) "Mad The Swine" is correctly considered to be a Hollywood remaster because...
From the original master tapes, safety copies (or dupilicate masters) are made. These duplicate masters are shipped all over the world. Therefore, the safety copy held by EMI (UK) and the safety copy held by Electra (USA) were identical. However, at that time (early 1960 - 1970's) the USA manufactured their discs slightly differently. (For example, Electra ADDITIONALLY EQ'd these safety copies - so this album - "Queen" - and the subsequent single releases - sound "flatter" than the UK version).
When Queen moved to Hollywood, the "House Of Mouse" quite correctly demanded their own NEW safety copies. They wanted new masters, taken directly from master tapes, which they could digitally re-master for the new CD medium. No recycling of old safety copies for these cookies.
So EMI (in their infinite wisdom) sent new masters over to to the USA by aeroplane and bodyguard. (Not armed obviously!).
But to their surprise, EMI had sent the WRONG tapes. Not safety masters - but THE masters. Now Hollywood thought they hit the Jackpot. It was Hollywood who "banded" the new album tracks, and prepared the new remixed CD for release.
A copy of the new (as yet unreleased CD -including additional tracks "Mad The Swine" and "Keep Yourself Alive - retake") was returned to the UK.
Well, the proverbial hit the fan! Needless to say, there was nothing QP could do about it - as Hollywood had them by the goolies! (Queen had already signed permission to release the stuff - but here was additional stuff being issued they had not really reckoned on).
As it was being released anyway (and as a compromise) it was decided to release the HOLLYWOOD version in the UK first.
Now =Jeffrey=, my old pal, my old buddy - your thinking "what a load of old bullplop" (or words to that effect), but it gets better.
This is WHY Queen Productions have LOST the Masters to "Your My Best Friend", and most of "The Game" (just to name a few) because 'tween 'plane out and 'plane back 'ome - they were NICKED! (Sorry - officially "lost in transit" - can't have anyone mis-quote me now).
Infact, there are MORE rarities OUTSIDE QP, then there are inside because of all the thieving little toe-rags! Why do you think Brian had to advertise to get "The Game" masters returned? Do you think they were lost in the post, or misfiled by some dippity secretary? (That could as equally apply to a male or female assistant). No - it was because - Queen sent over the wrong tapes - and the wrong (master) tapes were "half-inched"!
So you want proof - you live in the US? (No matter as some 'zoners do) It was all over the Press (that is the public domain to you and I).
Now FairyDandy - please, please, please cut and paste this and send it to Greg - because (fanfare of trumpets: toot-a-toot-toot-toot-a-toot) There is NOTHING he can do about it because it is true!
Game, set, and match! I enjoyed that one!!!!!
(Dancing rain-dance of delight a-whoopin' and a hooping around the PC!!!)
(Sorry - but after shouts of "get to your bed you old fool", and treading a circle out of our old carpet, Mr Stuart has been hauled to bed by his right ear. Normal service will resume in the morning - Mrs Stuart!)
From the original master tapes, safety copies (or dupilicate masters) are made. These duplicate masters are shipped all over the world. Therefore, the safety copy held by EMI (UK) and the safety copy held by Electra (USA) were identical. However, at that time (early 1960 - 1970's) the USA manufactured their discs slightly differently. (For example, Electra ADDITIONALLY EQ'd these safety copies - so this album - "Queen" - and the subsequent single releases - sound "flatter" than the UK version).
When Queen moved to Hollywood, the "House Of Mouse" quite correctly demanded their own NEW safety copies. They wanted new masters, taken directly from master tapes, which they could digitally re-master for the new CD medium. No recycling of old safety copies for these cookies.
So EMI (in their infinite wisdom) sent new masters over to to the USA by aeroplane and bodyguard. (Not armed obviously!).
But to their surprise, EMI had sent the WRONG tapes. Not safety masters - but THE masters. Now Hollywood thought they hit the Jackpot. It was Hollywood who "banded" the new album tracks, and prepared the new remixed CD for release.
A copy of the new (as yet unreleased CD -including additional tracks "Mad The Swine" and "Keep Yourself Alive - retake") was returned to the UK.
Well, the proverbial hit the fan! Needless to say, there was nothing QP could do about it - as Hollywood had them by the goolies! (Queen had already signed permission to release the stuff - but here was additional stuff being issued they had not really reckoned on).
As it was being released anyway (and as a compromise) it was decided to release the HOLLYWOOD version in the UK first.
Now =Jeffrey=, my old pal, my old buddy - your thinking "what a load of old bullplop" (or words to that effect), but it gets better.
This is WHY Queen Productions have LOST the Masters to "Your My Best Friend", and most of "The Game" (just to name a few) because 'tween 'plane out and 'plane back 'ome - they were NICKED! (Sorry - officially "lost in transit" - can't have anyone mis-quote me now).
Infact, there are MORE rarities OUTSIDE QP, then there are inside because of all the thieving little toe-rags! Why do you think Brian had to advertise to get "The Game" masters returned? Do you think they were lost in the post, or misfiled by some dippity secretary? (That could as equally apply to a male or female assistant). No - it was because - Queen sent over the wrong tapes - and the wrong (master) tapes were "half-inched"!
So you want proof - you live in the US? (No matter as some 'zoners do) It was all over the Press (that is the public domain to you and I).
Now FairyDandy - please, please, please cut and paste this and send it to Greg - because (fanfare of trumpets: toot-a-toot-toot-toot-a-toot) There is NOTHING he can do about it because it is true!
Game, set, and match! I enjoyed that one!!!!!
(Dancing rain-dance of delight a-whoopin' and a hooping around the PC!!!)
(Sorry - but after shouts of "get to your bed you old fool", and treading a circle out of our old carpet, Mr Stuart has been hauled to bed by his right ear. Normal service will resume in the morning - Mrs Stuart!)
So releasing MtS was not planned by QP?
The QP attitude of "withhold value from the customer" was alive even over 13 years ago?
The QP attitude of "withhold value from the customer" was alive even over 13 years ago?
That's fascinating stuff. I wonder if this helps explain why Hollywood had trouble getting single versions of some tracks, and apparently wasn't made aware of them.
I've posted before about how they obviously didn't have single version masters for 'Flash', 'One Vision', 'Fat Bottomed Girls' and 'I Want to Break Free' which I actually got them to investigate and resulted in its inclusion on 'Greatest Hits'.
I get the impression that Queen didn't provide them with the necessary info and masters for proper releases until they begged for them :-P
Still curious about that intro...
I've posted before about how they obviously didn't have single version masters for 'Flash', 'One Vision', 'Fat Bottomed Girls' and 'I Want to Break Free' which I actually got them to investigate and resulted in its inclusion on 'Greatest Hits'.
I get the impression that Queen didn't provide them with the necessary info and masters for proper releases until they begged for them :-P
Still curious about that intro...
Wait a mo... Are you saying that The Game masters were lost/stolen along with (somehow) YMBF? But you're talking about years and years ago because, obviously they had the masters returned for the Dvd-a releases...right?
Peace,
Adam.
Peace,
Adam.
Adam Baboolal: (See I've figured the cut'n paste bit now!) NO adam. (Try to keep up - as I will type this v e r y s l o w l y).
The Game DVDA was made up from new bits, recycled bits, old bits edited together. Mono bits remade into stereo etc. It was NOT made from THE master because (as you so correctly deduced) THE master was stolen about 13 years ago.
Therefore it must have been remade from the existing SAFETY COPY!!!!
I am really glad you have started watching "Murder She Wrote" because all this cloak and dagger stuff is really hard to keep up with isn't it!
Dont you b*ggers ever go to bed?
(Yes - yes in a minute... Ouch, ouch, watch what your doing with that rolling pin... OK... OK... I just wanted a round of applause that's all...)
The Game DVDA was made up from new bits, recycled bits, old bits edited together. Mono bits remade into stereo etc. It was NOT made from THE master because (as you so correctly deduced) THE master was stolen about 13 years ago.
Therefore it must have been remade from the existing SAFETY COPY!!!!
I am really glad you have started watching "Murder She Wrote" because all this cloak and dagger stuff is really hard to keep up with isn't it!
Dont you b*ggers ever go to bed?
(Yes - yes in a minute... Ouch, ouch, watch what your doing with that rolling pin... OK... OK... I just wanted a round of applause that's all...)
JSS - Tomorrow could you please provide some comment to my above questions regarding QP attempted stingyness regarding the KYA and MtS Hollywood bonus tracks?