Let's see.....and NONE of these reasons have ANY thing to do with me being a fan of Queen,...
.... just my own opinions about hip/hop as a form of music? or whatever the hell it claims to be.
It's overtly misogynist towards women, it glorifies the ''thug'' life of drugs, violence, beating and disrespecting women, killing police, every other word is profanity, while it sometimes does have inventive/ryming use of lyrics,...every rapper on the planet seems to have an inability to write their own music and all sample other artists (at 1st this seemed like a homage to artists they admire, but SO much rap and hip/hop uses sampling that it comes off to me as lazy and that hip hop artists have no talent/ability to write any music of their own).
It's repetitive.
It's often racist.
It is not music (to me in my opinion) not because of all of the above, but because in the 1950's, there was something in the beatnik New York Greenich Village area clubs called ''spoken word'', which were arists speaking in ryhme, to a beat usualy at that time played on bongos.
It had no real melody/harmony/orchestrated structure or arrangement (JUST LIKE HIP/HOP), but they KNEW to then NOT call it music. It was a form of artistic performance art called spoken word. To me hip/hop and rap ARE SPOKEN WORD, NOT music!
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3 years ago I listened to hip hop..é.why? because...to that time, I didn't listen to Queen and I couldn't speak or understand english...but now...oooohh I hate Hip Hop...
it's so..commercial (does that word exist)?
and mostly it's just women discrimination they are like the 'bling-bling' of the rappers and it's all so...viuel..I mean for hip hoppers it's important wich clothes do you wera wich shoes you have etc...
and the music..weeeeell..ok..nice rythm..but it's always to same...you have in songs like candy shop (beurk) 4 different notes...(yiha)...
it's so..commercial (does that word exist)?
and mostly it's just women discrimination they are like the 'bling-bling' of the rappers and it's all so...viuel..I mean for hip hoppers it's important wich clothes do you wera wich shoes you have etc...
and the music..weeeeell..ok..nice rythm..but it's always to same...you have in songs like candy shop (beurk) 4 different notes...(yiha)...
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Arlene R. Weiss wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's overtly misogynist towards women, it glorifies the ''thug'' life of drugs, violence, beating and disrespecting women, killing police, every other word is profanity, while it sometimes does have inventive/ryming use of lyrics,...every rapper on the planet seems to have an inability to write their own music and all sample other artists (at 1st this seemed like a homage to artists they admire, but SO much rap and hip/hop uses sampling that it comes off to me as lazy and that hip hop artists have no talent/ability to write any music of their own).
It's repetitive.
It's often racist.
It is not music (to me in my opinion) not because of all of the above, but because in the 1950's, there was something in the beatnik New York Greenich Village area clubs called ''spoken word'', which were arists speaking in ryhme, to a beat usualy at that time played on bongos.
It had no real melody/harmony/orchestrated structure or arrangement (JUST LIKE HIP/HOP), but they KNEW to then NOT call it music. It was a form of artistic performance art called spoken word. To me hip/hop and rap ARE SPOKEN WORD, NOT music! [/QUOTE]
I mostly agree with you, but you must keep in mind that the above things do not characterise all rap and hip-hop music. I've heard a lot of very positive and inspiring lyrics in rap music, but they are usually not in the mainstream. What you described is mainstream rap.
I totally agree with those who say that rap is not music. It is an art form. Arts by definition are forms of self-expression, and rap can certainly qualify. However, in my opinion, music requires instrumentation and melody. You will never meet a serious musician who takes rap to be a form of music worth investing into. Most rap music has very little musicality to it, and does nothing to challenge musicians. But again, the same can be said about 99% of today's commercially popular rock and pop as well.
It's repetitive.
It's often racist.
It is not music (to me in my opinion) not because of all of the above, but because in the 1950's, there was something in the beatnik New York Greenich Village area clubs called ''spoken word'', which were arists speaking in ryhme, to a beat usualy at that time played on bongos.
It had no real melody/harmony/orchestrated structure or arrangement (JUST LIKE HIP/HOP), but they KNEW to then NOT call it music. It was a form of artistic performance art called spoken word. To me hip/hop and rap ARE SPOKEN WORD, NOT music! [/QUOTE]
I mostly agree with you, but you must keep in mind that the above things do not characterise all rap and hip-hop music. I've heard a lot of very positive and inspiring lyrics in rap music, but they are usually not in the mainstream. What you described is mainstream rap.
I totally agree with those who say that rap is not music. It is an art form. Arts by definition are forms of self-expression, and rap can certainly qualify. However, in my opinion, music requires instrumentation and melody. You will never meet a serious musician who takes rap to be a form of music worth investing into. Most rap music has very little musicality to it, and does nothing to challenge musicians. But again, the same can be said about 99% of today's commercially popular rock and pop as well.
As a social expression I respect hip hop and its artists, but I can't stand to listen to it. What I have heard sounds m-o-n-o-t-o-n-e to me. Plus I don't want to expend that much time and energy on trying to understand (any) lyrics, so I have no idea what they are singing about. It just doesn't move me, and there is no crime in that. Ain't it wonderful there are so many music genres around - enough for all of us. Last night I watched an Etta James dvd (she's a black blues singer maybe in her 60's now). Geez - incredible!
Ok point taken so you do agree that it is an artform because you refer to the beatnicks as artists and rap as the spoken word. So in "your opinion", it is a way for the artist to exspress themselves and thier ideals.
I mean I guess I know where you're coming from but like I said some people will resent another artform while others will apreciate it. Like people enjoy queen because thier songs sound really awsome and while some other bands my come close to it nobody will ever play quite the same as the do and thats all good and well but there is a generation in mexico and as well as around the world who like rage against the machine because of what the stand for and because thier music sounds good..( I just use them as an example).
I mean I guess I know where you're coming from but like I said some people will resent another artform while others will apreciate it. Like people enjoy queen because thier songs sound really awsome and while some other bands my come close to it nobody will ever play quite the same as the do and thats all good and well but there is a generation in mexico and as well as around the world who like rage against the machine because of what the stand for and because thier music sounds good..( I just use them as an example).
My previous reply was meant for Arlene.R.Weis I applogise for not typing so earlier.
It is a large generalsiation when people say that all rap is about is drugs, and making women look bad, and all the "bling bling". That, as a description, is almost the "commercial" description of rap.
If you look past fakes (for want of a better word) such as Ja Rule, Lil Bow Wow and all these hangers on, you do find some though provoking stuff. Eminem, despite what people think, is a genious, as were NWA, as was Tupac, as is a fella called The Game. All of these people have in some way changed or influenced a lots. Even The Streets are a brilliantr act.
And when people talk about the videos and how they criticise women and illustrate them as objects... the environments they find themselves in are exactly as they describe, and the women they find themselves with want exactly what they get, so it's not like they're respectable women in the first place anyways.
If you look past fakes (for want of a better word) such as Ja Rule, Lil Bow Wow and all these hangers on, you do find some though provoking stuff. Eminem, despite what people think, is a genious, as were NWA, as was Tupac, as is a fella called The Game. All of these people have in some way changed or influenced a lots. Even The Streets are a brilliantr act.
And when people talk about the videos and how they criticise women and illustrate them as objects... the environments they find themselves in are exactly as they describe, and the women they find themselves with want exactly what they get, so it's not like they're respectable women in the first place anyways.
Let's put it on the words of Chris Rock
"Back in the days when we had Public Enemy, NWA, and Tupac you could defend hip-hop on an intellectual level."
Not anymore. Hip-hop for the most part has become nothing but a corporate machine of a low life style which serves no message, purpose, or concept. The great majority of mainstream hip-hop artists are nothing but an embarassment to all the black musicians who created jazz, blues, soul, R&B, pop and rock n' roll to give shape to what has become of popular music for the past 100 years.
"Back in the days when we had Public Enemy, NWA, and Tupac you could defend hip-hop on an intellectual level."
Not anymore. Hip-hop for the most part has become nothing but a corporate machine of a low life style which serves no message, purpose, or concept. The great majority of mainstream hip-hop artists are nothing but an embarassment to all the black musicians who created jazz, blues, soul, R&B, pop and rock n' roll to give shape to what has become of popular music for the past 100 years.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]its_a_hard_life. wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]ropeyjoe wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Oh and yeah I was talking to you its_a_hard_life
and what the hell is a chav?[/QUOTE]
Well, a chav is someone who loves anything that looks gangster like eg. dress, music, talks, walks like a gangster all the brand names with all the hoodie stuff thats a chav and i have alot where i live and its not a pretty sight.
Just dont agrue with me yeah because i will never like that kind of music and not you or anyone else can put shit in my mind to try and change it. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS EVERYONE.[/QUOTE]
We have those here too but we call them "dirties"
and what the hell is a chav?[/QUOTE]
Well, a chav is someone who loves anything that looks gangster like eg. dress, music, talks, walks like a gangster all the brand names with all the hoodie stuff thats a chav and i have alot where i live and its not a pretty sight.
Just dont agrue with me yeah because i will never like that kind of music and not you or anyone else can put shit in my mind to try and change it. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS EVERYONE.[/QUOTE]
We have those here too but we call them "dirties"
In reply to Mr Jingles I just want to say that there is still alot of good rap out there that carries a message and helps people with the situation the find themsleves in and explains to them why they perseve the world to be like that. A god example of this is The Game Featuring 50 Cent in hate it or love it. Listen to it or prefarebly watch it and you will see wht I mean.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Let's put it on the words of Chris Rock
"Back in the days when we had Public Enemy, NWA, and Tupac you could defend hip-hop on an intellectual level."
Not anymore. Hip-hop for the most part has become nothing but a corporate machine of a low life style which serves no message, purpose, or concept. The great majority of mainstream hip-hop artists are nothing but an embarassment to all the black musicians who created jazz, blues, soul, R&B, pop and rock n' roll to give shape to what has become of popular music for the past 100 years.[/QUOTE]
Fantastic post, and I 100% agree.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]ropeyjoe wrote: [/QUOTENAME]In reply to Mr Jingles I just want to say that there is still alot of good rap out there that carries a message and helps people with the situation the find themsleves in and explains to them why they perseve the world to be like that. A god example of this is The Game Featuring 50 Cent in hate it or love it. Listen to it or prefarebly watch it and you will see wht I mean.[/QUOTE]
He said "mainstream", and "the majority", which means there are underground rappers that are decent, and that in the mainstream, there can always be an exception now and again.
"Back in the days when we had Public Enemy, NWA, and Tupac you could defend hip-hop on an intellectual level."
Not anymore. Hip-hop for the most part has become nothing but a corporate machine of a low life style which serves no message, purpose, or concept. The great majority of mainstream hip-hop artists are nothing but an embarassment to all the black musicians who created jazz, blues, soul, R&B, pop and rock n' roll to give shape to what has become of popular music for the past 100 years.[/QUOTE]
Fantastic post, and I 100% agree.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]ropeyjoe wrote: [/QUOTENAME]In reply to Mr Jingles I just want to say that there is still alot of good rap out there that carries a message and helps people with the situation the find themsleves in and explains to them why they perseve the world to be like that. A god example of this is The Game Featuring 50 Cent in hate it or love it. Listen to it or prefarebly watch it and you will see wht I mean.[/QUOTE]
He said "mainstream", and "the majority", which means there are underground rappers that are decent, and that in the mainstream, there can always be an exception now and again.
I don't care for hip hop myself, but I can always enjoy a good laugh from watching R. Kelly's "Trapped in the Closet" series or the Ludicris "Get Back" video. It's pure comedy to me. As far as listening to it on the radio...I wouldn't be caught dead listening to rap in my car. Not because I'm white or anything, it just sucks. I mean, it's loud, bass filled, single beat, and most importantly NO GUITAR!!! It just doesn't suit me. I would agree that it is more of an art than music.
what do you mean loud? Isn't rock loud?
Doesn't some rap, hip-hop songs have guitars playing ?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]queen4ever2 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Doesn't some rap, hip-hop songs have guitars playing ?[/QUOTE]
If by guitars you mean beat-box, then yeah.
If by guitars you mean beat-box, then yeah.