But back to the initial issue, in just some random thoughts that spring to mind after reading some posts:
As a matter of fact there IS a lot of love and effort being put in a lot of Queen-bootleg product.
Some people, they even resident in here, take a lot of effort in 'correcting' and cleaning up those old 8mm.
Others in here do some realy nice artwork!
Others dedicate their every spare second to conserving the best possible quality of recordings.
Hey, they even distribute them when they get to it!
Some in here put a lot of money and swet into making recordings. (And who does one think he is coming in here and complaining about the quality of those recordings?!)
Some in here even take the effort to create SEVERAL multi-angle DVD's of SEVERAL shows! 2-cam, 3-cam, 6-cam... some use whatever is available and watchable. And yes, indeed also telephone recordings can bring lots of justice to the 'final' product of shows.
See, it IS indeed all out there... Why it is not as widely available as their Zepp/Floyd/Who-equavilents?? Hmm... I dunno, maybe indeed because the Queen community has more twats then the other bands. (Maybe also this goes hand in hand with the fact that Queen is a band with a lot of much younger fans as well??)
Zeppeling must have people downloading stuff for free and putting it on eBay?!
Zeppelin must have a Trancer?! No?
Btw: as many people already stated, the Queen community is one of the most hostile and jealous fan-bases around. This is true! But that is not only so when it comes to trading. It is exactly the same with collectors of, let's say, vinyl and or memorabilia. And even among just 'regular' fans. For some reason Queen is indeed a band that attracts a lot of weirdo's ;-)))
That was already the case 15 years ago!
You had a record one had not? You got slain!
You had met the band? Same thing!
Only in those days, the backstabbing happened at conventions and such - nowadays it is done on the internet.
Also, in here, a lot of people are just very impatient. About recordings; They want it ALL and they want it NOW. That just will not happen as the river will run dry eventually leaving some fish somewhere lying around in small pools that will NEVER get out and die in there.
Most will indeed come out eventually. It just might take ten years!
And let's not forget that the whining, the begging, the DEMANDING and the rediciolous amount of namecalling in here is an extra motivation for people to keep stuff to themselves.
Traders more and more share their own stuff with people they like. People they choose. And they don't even need to get the 'same amount back' for it. They are actually no longer traders, but sharers as in the olden days before 'sharing' meant putting something on a server for every anonymous, ungratefull person in the world to grab it without even saying thank you.
It's in some cases also a matter of granting people the pleasure of owning a recording - just because there are just too many people on a public board like Queenzone that just are not worthy. Is that selfish? Is that behaving like a selfisch jerk? Yeah, I guess so... There is just no gain in it for the trader. I'm sorry; but I just personally don't believe in blindly just GIVE everything to EVERYBODY.
ESPECIALLY not to people that call me names in public!
And if anyone has a problem with restrictions being put on such a 'gift', for WHATEVER reason,... don't accept the gift and tell the guy he's an arse. But I NEVER heard of anyone saying 'no' to getting a certain recording because there is a not-for-trade restriction on it. OF COURSE we want that recording.
Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists.
It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes.
But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess.
I
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Great post, Jeroen.
@Thijs: The good old days, ey? Yes, I forgive you, offcourse I do. There is much more then Queen alone. It's just a hobby, isn't it?
I remember that thing with Luis yes. He screwed us both, if I remember well. Yes it was Bradford '74 and I believe Milwaukee '76. It still was fairly rare at that point. The problem with Luis was, that he was changing mind all the time. It was both frustrating and confusing.
I'm also back in trading and I rest my lazy past. I had some private problems and now I'm back in action.
Edit: I forget to mention. I really think QueenZone needs a discussion like this! This place is sometimes full of sh*t. We must not let that happen!
@Thijs: The good old days, ey? Yes, I forgive you, offcourse I do. There is much more then Queen alone. It's just a hobby, isn't it?
I remember that thing with Luis yes. He screwed us both, if I remember well. Yes it was Bradford '74 and I believe Milwaukee '76. It still was fairly rare at that point. The problem with Luis was, that he was changing mind all the time. It was both frustrating and confusing.
I'm also back in trading and I rest my lazy past. I had some private problems and now I'm back in action.
Edit: I forget to mention. I really think QueenZone needs a discussion like this! This place is sometimes full of sh*t. We must not let that happen!
I forgot to mention about Pieters new website and Fendereks idea.
Both are great initiatives. Realy!
But I do not think they go hand in hand. Yes, Pieters new website, also because the people that go over there got some similar view on things, is a very good and healthy thing which will indeed gain a lot of pleasure for a lot of traders. That is for sure!
This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label.
(Please, everyone, visit http://www.harvested.org for just a couple of seconds!)
=btw: I volunteer myself for services to the new Queen label! ;-) To provide recordings, if I can - to create artwork, whatever.=
It will also be the ideal place for healthy discussions like this one without being interfered ;-)
But it will turn out an illusion that this will make more recordings being uncovered that are not already around in collectors-circles... Unfortunately.
Both are great initiatives. Realy!
But I do not think they go hand in hand. Yes, Pieters new website, also because the people that go over there got some similar view on things, is a very good and healthy thing which will indeed gain a lot of pleasure for a lot of traders. That is for sure!
This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label.
(Please, everyone, visit http://www.harvested.org for just a couple of seconds!)
=btw: I volunteer myself for services to the new Queen label! ;-) To provide recordings, if I can - to create artwork, whatever.=
It will also be the ideal place for healthy discussions like this one without being interfered ;-)
But it will turn out an illusion that this will make more recordings being uncovered that are not already around in collectors-circles... Unfortunately.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]jeroen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists.
It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes.
But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess.
I don't want to go into sharing in lossy format
though... I am amazed about that as well. [/QUOTE]
In every trading community there are recordings that are only traded among certain people and aren't commonly circulating. The LZ community is no exception at all. However what the LZ community has managed to do and what the Queen trading community has almost completely failed at is to clean the trading pool from any inferior versions of shows, i.e. unknown gen or high gen tapes, mp3 junk and such things. The LZ community has succeded in spreading the best available versions of many shows and make those commonly available. As I said there are probably many uncirculated LZ shows still to be heard, but what is already available is mostly top-notch quality. In the Queen trading scene everyone only seems to be looking for rare shows, but I'd like to see more people to care about the shows that are widely available already, but so many could be upgraded when a lower generation tape was found and transfered.
Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists.
It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes.
But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess.
I don't want to go into sharing in lossy format
though... I am amazed about that as well. [/QUOTE]
In every trading community there are recordings that are only traded among certain people and aren't commonly circulating. The LZ community is no exception at all. However what the LZ community has managed to do and what the Queen trading community has almost completely failed at is to clean the trading pool from any inferior versions of shows, i.e. unknown gen or high gen tapes, mp3 junk and such things. The LZ community has succeded in spreading the best available versions of many shows and make those commonly available. As I said there are probably many uncirculated LZ shows still to be heard, but what is already available is mostly top-notch quality. In the Queen trading scene everyone only seems to be looking for rare shows, but I'd like to see more people to care about the shows that are widely available already, but so many could be upgraded when a lower generation tape was found and transfered.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]tilomagnet wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]jeroen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists.
It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes.
But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess.
I don't want to go into sharing in lossy format
though... I am amazed about that as well. [/QUOTE]
In every trading community there are recordings that are only traded among certain people and aren't commonly circulating. The LZ community is no exception at all. However what the LZ community has managed to do and what the Queen trading community has almost completely failed at is to clean the trading pool from any inferior versions of shows, i.e. unknown gen or high gen tapes, mp3 junk and such things. The LZ community has succeded in spreading the best available versions of many shows and make those commonly available. As I said there are probably many uncirculated LZ shows still to be heard, but what is already available is mostly top-notch quality. In the Queen trading scene everyone only seems to be looking for rare shows, but I'd like to see more people to care about the shows that are widely available already, but so many could be upgraded when a lower generation tape was found and transfered. [/QUOTE]
Good point!
Good on Zeppelin too, btw!
I guess you are right. In Queen circles there are indeed more people hunting for NEW material more then they are hunting for upgrades. (I myself am no exception btw! ;-)
And in that sence all in here are indeed right in saying that the increasingly sharing of lossy material in here is not healthy for the situation.
Maybe indeed someone should take the lead on Pieters website. I'd love to do it, but I'm afraid I have not enough time for such a project by far... Let's say: Take one show at a time and see who has what. Make the best possible product from all that emerges from that request and then go on to the next show.
Or first start an inventory on everyone that has recorded themselves or knows has a copy from mastertapes.
It will take a while, but it will be fun! Some people dig back into their old tapes to see who has the best source and the most complete. Then others go to work on artwork (whoever has time and inspiration and if there are multiple designs available in the end, let's just vote!)
We could call the label White Queen Records! ;-)))
Right, I'm drifting away here. You catch my drift ;-)
Now, and if you think that in Led Zeppelin-land everything that excists is widely available, you are wrong! You just don't know you are because you don't know what excists.
It's the same situation over there as it is in here as far as that concernes.
But there are just a little bit more adults inthere that behave like one, I guess.
I don't want to go into sharing in lossy format
though... I am amazed about that as well. [/QUOTE]
In every trading community there are recordings that are only traded among certain people and aren't commonly circulating. The LZ community is no exception at all. However what the LZ community has managed to do and what the Queen trading community has almost completely failed at is to clean the trading pool from any inferior versions of shows, i.e. unknown gen or high gen tapes, mp3 junk and such things. The LZ community has succeded in spreading the best available versions of many shows and make those commonly available. As I said there are probably many uncirculated LZ shows still to be heard, but what is already available is mostly top-notch quality. In the Queen trading scene everyone only seems to be looking for rare shows, but I'd like to see more people to care about the shows that are widely available already, but so many could be upgraded when a lower generation tape was found and transfered. [/QUOTE]
Good point!
Good on Zeppelin too, btw!
I guess you are right. In Queen circles there are indeed more people hunting for NEW material more then they are hunting for upgrades. (I myself am no exception btw! ;-)
And in that sence all in here are indeed right in saying that the increasingly sharing of lossy material in here is not healthy for the situation.
Maybe indeed someone should take the lead on Pieters website. I'd love to do it, but I'm afraid I have not enough time for such a project by far... Let's say: Take one show at a time and see who has what. Make the best possible product from all that emerges from that request and then go on to the next show.
Or first start an inventory on everyone that has recorded themselves or knows has a copy from mastertapes.
It will take a while, but it will be fun! Some people dig back into their old tapes to see who has the best source and the most complete. Then others go to work on artwork (whoever has time and inspiration and if there are multiple designs available in the end, let's just vote!)
We could call the label White Queen Records! ;-)))
Right, I'm drifting away here. You catch my drift ;-)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]jeroen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
And in that sence all in here are indeed right in saying that the increasingly sharing of lossy material in here is not healthy for the situation.
Maybe indeed someone should take the lead on Pieters website. Let's say: Take one show at a time and see who has what. Make the best possible product from all that emerges from that request and then go on to the next show.
It will take a while, but it will be fun! Some people dig back into their old tapes to see who has the best source and the most complete. ;-)[/QUOTE]
What you said is really the only way to improve the situation. We have to compare the already available sources/versions of a show, track down the lineage of each version if anyhow possible and then start to look for a lower gen. Once a 'definitive' version (i.e. a master or low gen transfer) has been circulated all traders must be encouraged to stop trading their inferior versions for obvious reasons.
The problem is, that compared to other trading communities, the Queen community is pure chaos as far as lineages is concerned. There are a few recordings of which low gen transfers have been made (naturally mostly the newly surfaced recordings), but there are tons of shows circulating transfered from unknown and/or high gen tapes as well, so noone is able to tell whether a recording was 1st gen or 15th gen, because virtually noone kept track of tape generations and passed them on to the people he traded with.
And in that sence all in here are indeed right in saying that the increasingly sharing of lossy material in here is not healthy for the situation.
Maybe indeed someone should take the lead on Pieters website. Let's say: Take one show at a time and see who has what. Make the best possible product from all that emerges from that request and then go on to the next show.
It will take a while, but it will be fun! Some people dig back into their old tapes to see who has the best source and the most complete. ;-)[/QUOTE]
What you said is really the only way to improve the situation. We have to compare the already available sources/versions of a show, track down the lineage of each version if anyhow possible and then start to look for a lower gen. Once a 'definitive' version (i.e. a master or low gen transfer) has been circulated all traders must be encouraged to stop trading their inferior versions for obvious reasons.
The problem is, that compared to other trading communities, the Queen community is pure chaos as far as lineages is concerned. There are a few recordings of which low gen transfers have been made (naturally mostly the newly surfaced recordings), but there are tons of shows circulating transfered from unknown and/or high gen tapes as well, so noone is able to tell whether a recording was 1st gen or 15th gen, because virtually noone kept track of tape generations and passed them on to the people he traded with.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]That's okay Rick but I did not say that at all. Bob said I am "implying" something like that but I wasn't implying anything. Usually, I say what I mean :)[/QUOTE]
I didn't say... I asked... :)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]tilomagnet wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The problem is, that compared to other trading communities, the Queen community is pure chaos as far as lineages is concerned. There are a few recordings of which low gen transfers have been made (naturally mostly the newly surfaced recordings), but there are tons of shows circulating transfered from unknown and/or high gen tapes as well, so noone is able to tell whether a recording was 1st gen or 15th gen, because virtually noone kept track of tape generations and passed them on to the people he traded with. [/QUOTE]
That's a very true statement, and a truly unfortunate one. So, with that in mind, here's my effort at starting a list of recordings that can be guaranteed to be from a specific tape generation. There may be a few more than you thought existed! I hope this goes well:
http://forum.ultimatequeen.com/viewtopic.php?p=254
Another point about Zeppelin: Not only are there shows that are hoarded, but collectors are teased about what exists. Then one day a bootleg comes out, and the sound quality has been purposely tampered with, or the bootlegger makes cuts on purpose, just so the complete unaltered concert still remains in the hands of just a few. It's been like that for ages in the LZ world, and I'm sure this stuff exists within the collecting worlds of dozens of other bands.
Great discussion, and great posts, guys.
I didn't say... I asked... :)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]tilomagnet wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The problem is, that compared to other trading communities, the Queen community is pure chaos as far as lineages is concerned. There are a few recordings of which low gen transfers have been made (naturally mostly the newly surfaced recordings), but there are tons of shows circulating transfered from unknown and/or high gen tapes as well, so noone is able to tell whether a recording was 1st gen or 15th gen, because virtually noone kept track of tape generations and passed them on to the people he traded with. [/QUOTE]
That's a very true statement, and a truly unfortunate one. So, with that in mind, here's my effort at starting a list of recordings that can be guaranteed to be from a specific tape generation. There may be a few more than you thought existed! I hope this goes well:
http://forum.ultimatequeen.com/viewtopic.php?p=254
Another point about Zeppelin: Not only are there shows that are hoarded, but collectors are teased about what exists. Then one day a bootleg comes out, and the sound quality has been purposely tampered with, or the bootlegger makes cuts on purpose, just so the complete unaltered concert still remains in the hands of just a few. It's been like that for ages in the LZ world, and I'm sure this stuff exists within the collecting worlds of dozens of other bands.
Great discussion, and great posts, guys.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]jeroen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label.
btw: I volunteer myself for services to the new Queen label! ;-) To provide recordings, if I can - to create artwork, whatever.[/QUOTE]
Excellent idea!! I guess its just a question of how to get started.
I am going to be reauthoring DVDs and adding menus or improving menus.
This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label.
btw: I volunteer myself for services to the new Queen label! ;-) To provide recordings, if I can - to create artwork, whatever.[/QUOTE]
Excellent idea!! I guess its just a question of how to get started.
I am going to be reauthoring DVDs and adding menus or improving menus.
About the quality issue - does anybody remember Luis from Spain? He (fortunately) left the Queen world some years ago. He was one of the first people who had the "rare demos" - and he intentionally distorted Silver Salmon before he traded it - and this loud distorted version spread very quickly while the original (audience) version remained very rare for quite a long time. That's just unbelievable and disgusting! Intentionally making the quality worse... and it's not about losing some inaudible frequencies like in MP3. It was about making the quality 50% worse!
Excellent guys
Good you mention LZ & PF to see how they do not allow mp3 or other lossy.
As a matter of fact Queen is the only Mp3,lossy,i dont care group around.
All others
Floyd
Zep
The Who
Van Halen
Frank Zappa
U2
Neil Young
REM
Pearl Jam
to name a few,just dont allow it.
All this can be changed in 1 instance.
MAKE RULES & start afresh
Two rules are needed
1 NO LOSSY formats on the site(whatever site)
2 Follow the rules
YV mentioned to me that "in the old days" mp3 was the only way as there were no lossless formats.
Well....that WAS THE OLD DAYS.Tekky has changed.
Those "old day" releasers should re-release in lossless.I take it that they still have the tapes.
Now you all should be looking for upgrades so you can throw the mp3's in the bin.
File too big?Ask for a blank & postage from someone!UPgrade your ADSL or something.
It can be done.
All it takes is for the staff of this site to say "right ,from now on no lossy"
Job Done...easy as that
YV even said that she didnt like people converting to a lossy format.
You have the power to change it & to make Queenzone a respectful lossless recording site instead of it looking like the KaZZa proggy with a different GUI.
I and many,many others havnt upped here soley for 1 reason...rare or not,we dont want them fucked to lossy formats 1 week after release.We like people to know what they are getting & not a possible Flac>Mp3>CD>MP3>CD>trade or a VHS>DVD>SVCD>AVI>DVD> trade.It's not right!
The "general fans"...as its put,can get all the mp3's they want via Mopheus,Kazza & numerous other P2P appz.
Queen respected you for being fans....respect them by keeping the material lossless.
They would of wanted you to have the best you can get so why piss on the recordings?
Good you mention LZ & PF to see how they do not allow mp3 or other lossy.
As a matter of fact Queen is the only Mp3,lossy,i dont care group around.
All others
Floyd
Zep
The Who
Van Halen
Frank Zappa
U2
Neil Young
REM
Pearl Jam
to name a few,just dont allow it.
All this can be changed in 1 instance.
MAKE RULES & start afresh
Two rules are needed
1 NO LOSSY formats on the site(whatever site)
2 Follow the rules
YV mentioned to me that "in the old days" mp3 was the only way as there were no lossless formats.
Well....that WAS THE OLD DAYS.Tekky has changed.
Those "old day" releasers should re-release in lossless.I take it that they still have the tapes.
Now you all should be looking for upgrades so you can throw the mp3's in the bin.
File too big?Ask for a blank & postage from someone!UPgrade your ADSL or something.
It can be done.
All it takes is for the staff of this site to say "right ,from now on no lossy"
Job Done...easy as that
YV even said that she didnt like people converting to a lossy format.
You have the power to change it & to make Queenzone a respectful lossless recording site instead of it looking like the KaZZa proggy with a different GUI.
I and many,many others havnt upped here soley for 1 reason...rare or not,we dont want them fucked to lossy formats 1 week after release.We like people to know what they are getting & not a possible Flac>Mp3>CD>MP3>CD>trade or a VHS>DVD>SVCD>AVI>DVD> trade.It's not right!
The "general fans"...as its put,can get all the mp3's they want via Mopheus,Kazza & numerous other P2P appz.
Queen respected you for being fans....respect them by keeping the material lossless.
They would of wanted you to have the best you can get so why piss on the recordings?
Few words from former Queen collector - about one year ago in Russia was released (if "released" is correct word when we're talking about bootlegs) a fan-made box-set which contained EVERYTHING about WWRY-Russia. It had 3 CDs (audience recordings of few shows) and 10 DVDs with all available to the date videos - from TV, professional footages, made by fans - from the shows itself and from the band meeting in airport and other things like these. From the first day when Brian and Roger came to Moscow for starting rehearsals 'till the last days of this show in Russia. All DVDs had animated menu, boxes. Price was higher than Live Aid box set. And during few months after release this box-set was updated (a couple of DVDs were added as I remember).
Therefore - less of words and complaints in 928-style, more of action, ladies and gentlemen!
Therefore - less of words and complaints in 928-style, more of action, ladies and gentlemen!
"YV even said that she didnt like people converting to a lossy format.
You have the power to change it & to make Queenzone a respectful lossless recording site instead of it looking like the KaZZa proggy with a different GUI.
I and many,many others havnt upped here soley for 1 reason...rare or not,we dont want them fucked to lossy formats 1 week after release.We like people to know what they are getting & not a possible Flac>Mp3>CD>MP3>CD>trade or a VHS>DVD>SVCD>AVI>DVD> trade.It's not right!
The "general fans"...as its put,can get all the mp3's they want via Mopheus,Kazza & numerous other P2P appz.
Queen respected you for being fans....respect them by keeping the material lossless.
They would of wanted you to have the best you can get so why piss on the recordings?"
That's not quite what I said:) I do not judge people for collecting mp3, its just myself who does not collect mp3 anymore (although I still have some demos in mp3, only)
I can ask Richard to create a forum for lossless sharing and trading to have a physical barrier between the flac community and the mp3 community (or DVD and VCD respectively). But you must be aware of the fact that once a concert is "out there", there is NO WAY you can prevent re-converting, mis-labelling and faking. I think the Rainbow 74 concert was already offered under at least 7 different fake names and that was before QZ offered flac. If you share a lossless concert on Queenzone (or DAD, Yeshkul, Trader's Den or where else), there is just nothing you can do about people sharing it on Kazaa, edonkey or anywhere else in mp3 or other formats. Therefore I think QZ should give the mp3 community a place, too. In the hub this co-existence works very well, we have a flac community and an mp3 community. Mp3 is not "upfaked" to flac because there is no trading and everything is free.
As to Queen respecting us for fans - well, they SOLD (not shared) their downloadable tour tracks in wma which is lossy. Plus they attached DRM which took away from the quality, too. They sell us CDs with DRM which do not fulfill the specifications of an audio CD anymore and are not called "compact disc digiatl audio" anymore(ROTC)!
@ Bob: I am not avoiding the question:
Nobody has told me that I cannot have a recording because of QZ as yet, but I have always been involved with QZ and I do not look for new contacts all the time. As Jeroen pointed out correctly, many of us have settled for sharing and swapping with friends because in the long run it gets very tedious to negotiate for weeks for a concert and to get arrogant replies and I am finished with that.
You have the power to change it & to make Queenzone a respectful lossless recording site instead of it looking like the KaZZa proggy with a different GUI.
I and many,many others havnt upped here soley for 1 reason...rare or not,we dont want them fucked to lossy formats 1 week after release.We like people to know what they are getting & not a possible Flac>Mp3>CD>MP3>CD>trade or a VHS>DVD>SVCD>AVI>DVD> trade.It's not right!
The "general fans"...as its put,can get all the mp3's they want via Mopheus,Kazza & numerous other P2P appz.
Queen respected you for being fans....respect them by keeping the material lossless.
They would of wanted you to have the best you can get so why piss on the recordings?"
That's not quite what I said:) I do not judge people for collecting mp3, its just myself who does not collect mp3 anymore (although I still have some demos in mp3, only)
I can ask Richard to create a forum for lossless sharing and trading to have a physical barrier between the flac community and the mp3 community (or DVD and VCD respectively). But you must be aware of the fact that once a concert is "out there", there is NO WAY you can prevent re-converting, mis-labelling and faking. I think the Rainbow 74 concert was already offered under at least 7 different fake names and that was before QZ offered flac. If you share a lossless concert on Queenzone (or DAD, Yeshkul, Trader's Den or where else), there is just nothing you can do about people sharing it on Kazaa, edonkey or anywhere else in mp3 or other formats. Therefore I think QZ should give the mp3 community a place, too. In the hub this co-existence works very well, we have a flac community and an mp3 community. Mp3 is not "upfaked" to flac because there is no trading and everything is free.
As to Queen respecting us for fans - well, they SOLD (not shared) their downloadable tour tracks in wma which is lossy. Plus they attached DRM which took away from the quality, too. They sell us CDs with DRM which do not fulfill the specifications of an audio CD anymore and are not called "compact disc digiatl audio" anymore(ROTC)!
@ Bob: I am not avoiding the question:
Nobody has told me that I cannot have a recording because of QZ as yet, but I have always been involved with QZ and I do not look for new contacts all the time. As Jeroen pointed out correctly, many of us have settled for sharing and swapping with friends because in the long run it gets very tedious to negotiate for weeks for a concert and to get arrogant replies and I am finished with that.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]jeroen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]This is indeed also maybe the ideal place to maybe try pull off something like Pink Floyd's HARVESTED label.
(Please, everyone, visit http://www.harvested.org for just a couple of seconds!)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's pretty impressive. With the right amount of effort, the Queen community could produce something like this within a few years.
(Please, everyone, visit http://www.harvested.org for just a couple of seconds!)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's pretty impressive. With the right amount of effort, the Queen community could produce something like this within a few years.
Barabara said some importants words:
"there is NO WAY you can prevent re-converting, mis-labelling and faking",
and its just that simple:
When you trade your jewel, you always run the risk of misuse.
On the other side:
It´s everybody choice what he collects, and even if it´s a twice mp3-flac-wav re-encoded version.
If he loves it, let him his pleasure.
There´s no need for any restrictive rules, if you don´t like it, don´t take it! That simple!
And above all: this finally leeds into a kind of "elite-trader" discussion, like we had it it some 4 or 5 years ago here in this forum already, I remember it very well. Mr Scully was heavily attacked by a lady, don´t remember her name.
I personally kept it this way: started with some mp3, thousand years ago, and I was happy with it!! Martin was one of the first, who provided it at all! Single tracks from Live highlights in mp3, there was no DSL, flac, lossless transaction via net, only mp3)
Meanwhile most of the files are replaced by lossless versions, and those mp3 left, I love them and I keep on searching...
But this Queen community suffers from the fact that the Queen fundus is limited, while most poeple always only want more, new, never heard... Meanwhile, this has finally almost come to an end, nothing REALLY NEW no more, therefore more focus on the quality. OK.
And I am sure, besides all Pink Floyd Harvested, Led Zepellin whatever, you´ll find crap quality versions from all those bands too, you must only search a little deeper.
And I was astonished, I didn´t see the Name David Bowie at all here in this discussion, he is truely alive, and this community also has some nice quality boots:
If you like Bowie,here is a short example, and what a surprise it´s UNDER PRESSURE from MSG, New York 2003 (AVI, 4.17 min)
http://rapidshare.de/files/19844004/underpressure.zip.html
I really wonder, what kind of Cam this guy used: its filmed from the upper right side in an amazing quality, mostly showing Bowie and Gail (almost looks like a TV Cam), and seeing this, I must think of Paul Rodgers, what a pitty.... But thats another discussion.
If someone is interetsed, I have the complete Bowie concert, and some more.
"there is NO WAY you can prevent re-converting, mis-labelling and faking",
and its just that simple:
When you trade your jewel, you always run the risk of misuse.
On the other side:
It´s everybody choice what he collects, and even if it´s a twice mp3-flac-wav re-encoded version.
If he loves it, let him his pleasure.
There´s no need for any restrictive rules, if you don´t like it, don´t take it! That simple!
And above all: this finally leeds into a kind of "elite-trader" discussion, like we had it it some 4 or 5 years ago here in this forum already, I remember it very well. Mr Scully was heavily attacked by a lady, don´t remember her name.
I personally kept it this way: started with some mp3, thousand years ago, and I was happy with it!! Martin was one of the first, who provided it at all! Single tracks from Live highlights in mp3, there was no DSL, flac, lossless transaction via net, only mp3)
Meanwhile most of the files are replaced by lossless versions, and those mp3 left, I love them and I keep on searching...
But this Queen community suffers from the fact that the Queen fundus is limited, while most poeple always only want more, new, never heard... Meanwhile, this has finally almost come to an end, nothing REALLY NEW no more, therefore more focus on the quality. OK.
And I am sure, besides all Pink Floyd Harvested, Led Zepellin whatever, you´ll find crap quality versions from all those bands too, you must only search a little deeper.
And I was astonished, I didn´t see the Name David Bowie at all here in this discussion, he is truely alive, and this community also has some nice quality boots:
If you like Bowie,here is a short example, and what a surprise it´s UNDER PRESSURE from MSG, New York 2003 (AVI, 4.17 min)
http://rapidshare.de/files/19844004/underpressure.zip.html
I really wonder, what kind of Cam this guy used: its filmed from the upper right side in an amazing quality, mostly showing Bowie and Gail (almost looks like a TV Cam), and seeing this, I must think of Paul Rodgers, what a pitty.... But thats another discussion.
If someone is interetsed, I have the complete Bowie concert, and some more.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]the_hero wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Houston 1977 (audio)
Houston 1977 (video)
Stockholm 2005 (audio)
Liverpool 1973 (audio)
Uniondale 1977 (video)
Buffalo 1978 (video)
Golder's Green 1973 (complete audio, well I shared the lossy recording, but the lossless showed up in the hub a week after)
These were not really "your" recordings - many other collectors had them. But it's true that some people in the past broke their promises and shared certain recordings on QZ only to annoy other collectors. That's too bad for you and for Bob, who apparently has trouble to find new recordings for that reason. [/QUOTE]
First of all, yes I feel that this post was about me. Second, I am sorry I shared most of the stuff I have a year after. I used to be a normal Queen bootleg collector but I got tired of all the rules attached to the trading point.
I agree that it's not hard to get something you see as rare (those days Houston) as long as you have patience and the will to get it. Traders need your trust before they go into action and share their material with you, which sounds more than reasonable.
When I look at Don Gerlamo for example. I've provided all my concerts to him that were still in mp3 (before I started trading). It were 113 concerts and the differences in quality were enormous. Because of a misunderstanding those days with Rick and Luis (I was the middle person between the trade, Rick gave me Bradford 74 and another concert (can't remember) and the day we were about to make the trade Luis thought I meant the houston audio instead of the video.)
After I gave Don gerolamo the 2 concerts we were amazed to see the difference in quality and decided to go trading. In 4 weeks time we got about 20 concerts in good quality so that goes to show how easy it is to get material if you have a start.
This was my story and the only truth from over the last year I wanted to get off my chest.. sorry for the frustrations from my side that caused frustrations from other sides over the last year.[/QUOTE]
This was not about you at all, no offence. It was just an example how fast your rare recordings can be shared and that it's not so strange that traders keep the recordings for themselves nowadays.
Houston 1977 (video)
Stockholm 2005 (audio)
Liverpool 1973 (audio)
Uniondale 1977 (video)
Buffalo 1978 (video)
Golder's Green 1973 (complete audio, well I shared the lossy recording, but the lossless showed up in the hub a week after)
These were not really "your" recordings - many other collectors had them. But it's true that some people in the past broke their promises and shared certain recordings on QZ only to annoy other collectors. That's too bad for you and for Bob, who apparently has trouble to find new recordings for that reason. [/QUOTE]
First of all, yes I feel that this post was about me. Second, I am sorry I shared most of the stuff I have a year after. I used to be a normal Queen bootleg collector but I got tired of all the rules attached to the trading point.
I agree that it's not hard to get something you see as rare (those days Houston) as long as you have patience and the will to get it. Traders need your trust before they go into action and share their material with you, which sounds more than reasonable.
When I look at Don Gerlamo for example. I've provided all my concerts to him that were still in mp3 (before I started trading). It were 113 concerts and the differences in quality were enormous. Because of a misunderstanding those days with Rick and Luis (I was the middle person between the trade, Rick gave me Bradford 74 and another concert (can't remember) and the day we were about to make the trade Luis thought I meant the houston audio instead of the video.)
After I gave Don gerolamo the 2 concerts we were amazed to see the difference in quality and decided to go trading. In 4 weeks time we got about 20 concerts in good quality so that goes to show how easy it is to get material if you have a start.
This was my story and the only truth from over the last year I wanted to get off my chest.. sorry for the frustrations from my side that caused frustrations from other sides over the last year.[/QUOTE]
This was not about you at all, no offence. It was just an example how fast your rare recordings can be shared and that it's not so strange that traders keep the recordings for themselves nowadays.