This cult should not be allowed to dwell the earth. Any of their deaths should be applauded.
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Reading that script really frustrated me. What a fucking robot.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=purple>Miss James wrote: [/QUOTENAME] When I heard that her church wanted to picket the funeral of all those young Amish girls that were brutally murdered, I was filled with so much disgust and anger. They were calling them whores and saying that it was good that they had died because of what they would become. From their perspective, everyone is going to hell except for them. I wonder what God thinks of their hate and wrathful acts towards others?
I think they are all misinformed and are very disturbed. [/QUOTE]
Very disturbed indeed.
This was her reply on another show when asked if she felt those children deserved to die (I really have to stop researching this woman and her disgusting quotes) -
Phelps-Roper: "Yes. It's kinder to kill them in their youth than it is for you to let them be full grown, and full-on rebellious - to make their stint in Hell so much more painful."
It seems she made that statement when she appeared on a show in lieu of picketing those funerals. The 'church' was first offered money but that offer was rescinded and a new offer was made - An hour of on-air time in exchange for not picketing the funerals. They agreed and signed a contract with the studio for the hour air time. That contract stipulated a fine of $500,000 if there were picketers near the funerals. The funerals were peaceful.
What kind of message do they really think they're putting out there? Can people like this truly believe what they're spewing or... or... what? I can't imagine the motive for this.
I think they are all misinformed and are very disturbed. [/QUOTE]
Very disturbed indeed.
This was her reply on another show when asked if she felt those children deserved to die (I really have to stop researching this woman and her disgusting quotes) -
Phelps-Roper: "Yes. It's kinder to kill them in their youth than it is for you to let them be full grown, and full-on rebellious - to make their stint in Hell so much more painful."
It seems she made that statement when she appeared on a show in lieu of picketing those funerals. The 'church' was first offered money but that offer was rescinded and a new offer was made - An hour of on-air time in exchange for not picketing the funerals. They agreed and signed a contract with the studio for the hour air time. That contract stipulated a fine of $500,000 if there were picketers near the funerals. The funerals were peaceful.
What kind of message do they really think they're putting out there? Can people like this truly believe what they're spewing or... or... what? I can't imagine the motive for this.
I just watched the Tyra video, and she handled the interview very well. Better than any of the other videos I've seen. That video in particular gives us a much better perspective on the situation. It is a conversation - not a battle.
To me, their actions are completely reasonable and make perfect sense. This is a group of people who were raised toward a single particular ideology that is rejected by everyone else in the world outside of those hundred or so people. They espouse this ideology because they believe it and that is all they ever knew.
They are very forceful and frustrated with their message because it is rejected by everyone else. It is very believable that they are terrorized just as much, if not more, than they do to others.
It's very easy for you or me to look upon this and see it as ridiculous, or even insane, but it really isn't that far-fetched.
What do you do when nobody listens to you? You speak louder; you get forceful; you participate in actions that make you stand out. That is basically what they are doing. Imagine if the whole world espoused their ideals. I can guarantee that most of you would then be the one on talk shows everywhere, violently arguing your point, thinking the world had gone mad.
Morality is not a matter of right and wrong; it's a matter of HOW MANY people think things are right and wrong. Unfortunately for this group, their ideals are held by only a hundred or so people, and all others are steadfastly against them, and their invasive nature. It's a situational matter, and even the Dalai Lama would grow into that exact personality if that's what he were raised in. It's very sad.
To me, their actions are completely reasonable and make perfect sense. This is a group of people who were raised toward a single particular ideology that is rejected by everyone else in the world outside of those hundred or so people. They espouse this ideology because they believe it and that is all they ever knew.
They are very forceful and frustrated with their message because it is rejected by everyone else. It is very believable that they are terrorized just as much, if not more, than they do to others.
It's very easy for you or me to look upon this and see it as ridiculous, or even insane, but it really isn't that far-fetched.
What do you do when nobody listens to you? You speak louder; you get forceful; you participate in actions that make you stand out. That is basically what they are doing. Imagine if the whole world espoused their ideals. I can guarantee that most of you would then be the one on talk shows everywhere, violently arguing your point, thinking the world had gone mad.
Morality is not a matter of right and wrong; it's a matter of HOW MANY people think things are right and wrong. Unfortunately for this group, their ideals are held by only a hundred or so people, and all others are steadfastly against them, and their invasive nature. It's a situational matter, and even the Dalai Lama would grow into that exact personality if that's what he were raised in. It's very sad.
I've heard of this church before, and I heard that it was mostly members of the same family, but I hadn't seen the video and read the interviews...didn't think it was worth my time.
Yes, this is incredibly disturbing. Luckily, they are a minority...they will die out, because even the most extreme right wing religious nuts don't agree with them. I just wish they'd die out quickily.
Whoever said "people" like this shouldn't be allowed to breed....BRAVO! It's like those two little girls who were singing the Nazi songs that their parents taught them...I feel sorry that the children are now screwed up for life after being raised in that kind of hate.
I have two wishes for this group...
1) That I could meet them, they could tell me I was going to hell, and I could respond "I'll see you there"
2) That one of their children turns out to be gay. That way that child will learn not to hate things that can't be changed, and the parents will have to go through the pain of cutting off their own child. It won't change their hatred towards gays, but it will cause them pain to cut their child out of their lives...and long, slow, constant, emotional suffering is what these "people" deserve.
I put "people" in quotes, because I think that calling them members of the human species is too good for them...they don't deserve that lable.
Yes, this is incredibly disturbing. Luckily, they are a minority...they will die out, because even the most extreme right wing religious nuts don't agree with them. I just wish they'd die out quickily.
Whoever said "people" like this shouldn't be allowed to breed....BRAVO! It's like those two little girls who were singing the Nazi songs that their parents taught them...I feel sorry that the children are now screwed up for life after being raised in that kind of hate.
I have two wishes for this group...
1) That I could meet them, they could tell me I was going to hell, and I could respond "I'll see you there"
2) That one of their children turns out to be gay. That way that child will learn not to hate things that can't be changed, and the parents will have to go through the pain of cutting off their own child. It won't change their hatred towards gays, but it will cause them pain to cut their child out of their lives...and long, slow, constant, emotional suffering is what these "people" deserve.
I put "people" in quotes, because I think that calling them members of the human species is too good for them...they don't deserve that lable.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=red>The Audacity of Charles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color =BrianJM> RollingBowieQueen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I just hope that when she does die she gets whats coming to her by her standards,(ie God kicks her out of that Golden Gate and down to hell. And with any luck, Freddie will be looking down on her and sniggering)[/QUOTE]
To be honest, though I'm mimbly-wimbly on the idea of "God" - I would hope that he would forgive this woman, too. From what I've heard about this "Hell" place, no one deserves to go there and suffer for eternity.[/QUOTE]
She Deserves it
To be honest, though I'm mimbly-wimbly on the idea of "God" - I would hope that he would forgive this woman, too. From what I've heard about this "Hell" place, no one deserves to go there and suffer for eternity.[/QUOTE]
She Deserves it
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<Font Color=Carrot> EARWAX!?! wrote: [/QUOTENAME]She Deserves it[/QUOTE]
Who are you to decide who "deserves" to go to Hell (if we are to assume this "Hell" place even exists) ?
Saying that, you are just as bad as she is.
Who are you to decide who "deserves" to go to Hell (if we are to assume this "Hell" place even exists) ?
Saying that, you are just as bad as she is.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
They are very forceful and frustrated with their message because it is rejected by everyone else. It is very believable that they are terrorized just as much, if not more, than they do to others.
[/QUOTE]
They're terrorized? Do you mean because they believe they have to do this in order to get to heaven? And if they don't spread the world they're sinning like the rest of the world? It does make sense when put that way - it's like seeing the pictures of tiny Palestinian children wearing suicide belts. It's what they know, so it's who they'll be.
BUT, these are people with higher educations - they're lawyers - their careers depend on the power of persuasion. Surely they must know the way to influence others is not through harassment but through dialogue.
There seems to be more to this than a goal of spreading the word of god and saving the world. Though if it isn't that, I can't figure out what it is.
They are very forceful and frustrated with their message because it is rejected by everyone else. It is very believable that they are terrorized just as much, if not more, than they do to others.
[/QUOTE]
They're terrorized? Do you mean because they believe they have to do this in order to get to heaven? And if they don't spread the world they're sinning like the rest of the world? It does make sense when put that way - it's like seeing the pictures of tiny Palestinian children wearing suicide belts. It's what they know, so it's who they'll be.
BUT, these are people with higher educations - they're lawyers - their careers depend on the power of persuasion. Surely they must know the way to influence others is not through harassment but through dialogue.
There seems to be more to this than a goal of spreading the word of god and saving the world. Though if it isn't that, I can't figure out what it is.
We've talked about her in my history class, when we did a current event discussion on the school shoot-out.
Disgusting.
Disgusting.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
They are very forceful and frustrated with their message because it is rejected by everyone else. It is very believable that they are terrorized just as much, if not more, than they do to others.
[/QUOTE]
They're terrorized? Do you mean because they believe they have to do this in order to get to heaven? And if they don't spread the world they're sinning like the rest of the world? It does make sense when put that way - it's like seeing the pictures of tiny Palestinian children wearing suicide belts. It's what they know, so it's who they'll be.
BUT, these are people with higher educations - they're lawyers - their careers depend on the power of persuasion. Surely they must know the way to influence others is not through harassment but through dialogue.
There seems to be more to this than a goal of spreading the word of god and saving the world. Though if it isn't that, I can't figure out what it is.
[/QUOTE]
In the Tyra interview, she explicitly stated that they have had property destroyed, etc., by others outraged by their actions, which is very believable. I hope you read my entire post, as it has some very insightful points for someone trying to see the situation from another perspective.
A career in law does not necessarily deal with persuasion. Much of law is rather demonstration. If the plaintiff sees a situation one way, the counsel's job is to present the plaintiff's point of view from a legal standpoint.
In fact, in many instances of law, their entire job revolves around preventing lawsuits, by using their knowledge of the law to ensure that their clients perform legally.
The role of a lawyer can be very misunderstood, especially due to television, movies, and the media. Their role is especially skewed by commonly held negative perceptions of their chosen career, or by a given few attorneys who make their livings through unjust means. People tend to forget that an attorney is a shield, not a sword, and their code of ethics rivals that of doctors and the like.
A job that can require far more persuasive skills would be in politics or marketing.
They are very forceful and frustrated with their message because it is rejected by everyone else. It is very believable that they are terrorized just as much, if not more, than they do to others.
[/QUOTE]
They're terrorized? Do you mean because they believe they have to do this in order to get to heaven? And if they don't spread the world they're sinning like the rest of the world? It does make sense when put that way - it's like seeing the pictures of tiny Palestinian children wearing suicide belts. It's what they know, so it's who they'll be.
BUT, these are people with higher educations - they're lawyers - their careers depend on the power of persuasion. Surely they must know the way to influence others is not through harassment but through dialogue.
There seems to be more to this than a goal of spreading the word of god and saving the world. Though if it isn't that, I can't figure out what it is.
[/QUOTE]
In the Tyra interview, she explicitly stated that they have had property destroyed, etc., by others outraged by their actions, which is very believable. I hope you read my entire post, as it has some very insightful points for someone trying to see the situation from another perspective.
A career in law does not necessarily deal with persuasion. Much of law is rather demonstration. If the plaintiff sees a situation one way, the counsel's job is to present the plaintiff's point of view from a legal standpoint.
In fact, in many instances of law, their entire job revolves around preventing lawsuits, by using their knowledge of the law to ensure that their clients perform legally.
The role of a lawyer can be very misunderstood, especially due to television, movies, and the media. Their role is especially skewed by commonly held negative perceptions of their chosen career, or by a given few attorneys who make their livings through unjust means. People tend to forget that an attorney is a shield, not a sword, and their code of ethics rivals that of doctors and the like.
A job that can require far more persuasive skills would be in politics or marketing.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
In the Tyra interview, she explicitly stated that they have had property destroyed, etc., by others outraged by their actions, which is very believable. I hope you read my entire post, as it has some very insightful points for someone trying to see the situation from another perspective. [/QUOTE]
I did read your entire post (both of them, in fact), and I saw your insightful points. :)
While I do understand the point you made in the first post, I don't see the connection to this family as clearly as you do.
The Phelps family wasn't raised in a world that had suddenly gone mad. Granted the now-adult children were brainwashed, but the elder Phelps', like Shirley, didn't grow up in a world that worshiped the way they do. Their neighbors didn't suddenly lose faith and turn on their god. Instead, this obsession grew inside of them. They turned on their neighbors, not the other way around. Their anger is driven from something within them, not something in the world around them. And it's that, IMO. Anger, not faith.
As for the vandalism to their property, etc., the cause and affect you implied seems reversed. This group's actions were not spurred by the vandalism. Rather, the anger and violence that has been directed toward them, has occurred BECAUSE OF their actions. You can see from some of the comments here - by people not directly affected by this group - that they incite fury. So, one can only imagine the extent a grieving family might go to for payback.
That's part of my issue with this. They are lawyers. They harass people when they're most vulnerable and yet they seem surprised and enraged by the reactions. They stay within the law and those who try to fight back wind up breaking it.
I don't have the sense that you're defending them, so this comment isn't meant that way, but I refuse to excuse their actions. Yes, I'd like to understand, but not because I sympathize. I think that's what Tyra was trying to do - understand. Listening to people, getting a sense of where they're coming from and why, helps a person figure out how to handle them. This group has a weakness; it just hasn't been uncovered yet. Once it is, maybe the families they harass can finally turn the tables on them.
In the Tyra interview, she explicitly stated that they have had property destroyed, etc., by others outraged by their actions, which is very believable. I hope you read my entire post, as it has some very insightful points for someone trying to see the situation from another perspective. [/QUOTE]
I did read your entire post (both of them, in fact), and I saw your insightful points. :)
While I do understand the point you made in the first post, I don't see the connection to this family as clearly as you do.
The Phelps family wasn't raised in a world that had suddenly gone mad. Granted the now-adult children were brainwashed, but the elder Phelps', like Shirley, didn't grow up in a world that worshiped the way they do. Their neighbors didn't suddenly lose faith and turn on their god. Instead, this obsession grew inside of them. They turned on their neighbors, not the other way around. Their anger is driven from something within them, not something in the world around them. And it's that, IMO. Anger, not faith.
As for the vandalism to their property, etc., the cause and affect you implied seems reversed. This group's actions were not spurred by the vandalism. Rather, the anger and violence that has been directed toward them, has occurred BECAUSE OF their actions. You can see from some of the comments here - by people not directly affected by this group - that they incite fury. So, one can only imagine the extent a grieving family might go to for payback.
That's part of my issue with this. They are lawyers. They harass people when they're most vulnerable and yet they seem surprised and enraged by the reactions. They stay within the law and those who try to fight back wind up breaking it.
I don't have the sense that you're defending them, so this comment isn't meant that way, but I refuse to excuse their actions. Yes, I'd like to understand, but not because I sympathize. I think that's what Tyra was trying to do - understand. Listening to people, getting a sense of where they're coming from and why, helps a person figure out how to handle them. This group has a weakness; it just hasn't been uncovered yet. Once it is, maybe the families they harass can finally turn the tables on them.
Exactly, this behavior is certainly inexcusable in our society. However, it does help to understand the situation. Thanks, you make very good discussion.
Excellent points, both of you! I only wish I was around to get into this debate, since it seems to be over.
We need to remember that there are varying degrees of smart. Being a lawyer, just like being a professor or a doctor or anything like that, requires book smarts. Well, book smarts aren't hard to have...in fact I think they are the easiest type of get, all you have to do is read the books and memorize the stuff you need. Hitler had book smarts, and so does this family. That doesn't make them smart by any stretch of the imagination; they are too wrapped up in their own hate and self-righteousness to see that their actions are hurting people. The older members of the family don't give a crap, because they have a victimhood mentality...everyone is against them, so it's ok to lash out and hurt people.
This isn't smart...this is stupidity (as opposed to ignorance), arrogance, hate to the nth degree and what I would venture to call evil.
We need to remember that there are varying degrees of smart. Being a lawyer, just like being a professor or a doctor or anything like that, requires book smarts. Well, book smarts aren't hard to have...in fact I think they are the easiest type of get, all you have to do is read the books and memorize the stuff you need. Hitler had book smarts, and so does this family. That doesn't make them smart by any stretch of the imagination; they are too wrapped up in their own hate and self-righteousness to see that their actions are hurting people. The older members of the family don't give a crap, because they have a victimhood mentality...everyone is against them, so it's ok to lash out and hurt people.
This isn't smart...this is stupidity (as opposed to ignorance), arrogance, hate to the nth degree and what I would venture to call evil.
that THING (shes not even a woman) is the most disgusting person on the planet. she shouldnt be allowed to breathe. anyone who causes harm or pain thats unessesary and to make a group of people HATE for no reason should just be shot theyre not doing anyone a favor and she shouldnt even have airtime.
excuse the lack of punctuation but shes disgusting. its like watching andrea yates get off death row for killing her children. this is what makes me so angry about my country that we allow these people to get away with so much. she should be in jail, but tahts my opinion.
*awaits slaughter*
excuse the lack of punctuation but shes disgusting. its like watching andrea yates get off death row for killing her children. this is what makes me so angry about my country that we allow these people to get away with so much. she should be in jail, but tahts my opinion.
*awaits slaughter*
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sparrow wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
excuse the lack of punctuation but shes disgusting. its like watching andrea yates get off death row for killing her children. this is what makes me so angry about my country that we allow these people to get away with so much. she should be in jail, but tahts my opinion.
*awaits slaughter* [/QUOTE]
Andrea Yates is a completely different story. She'd been on medication and then her doctor suddenly and radically altered her dosage just days before the murders.
This woman, this Phelps-Roper, however, isn't medicated and hasn't broken the law. That's the point I keep trying to make because that's what bugs me about this. They know how to manipulate people and events without stepping outside the law. As infuriating as their actions are, they cannot be stopped legally because they're not doing anything illegal.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Excellent points, both of you! I only wish I was around to get into this debate, since it seems to be over. [/QUOTE]
It seems the debate is not over after all. ;-)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
...Well, book smarts aren't hard to have...in fact I think they are the easiest type of get, all you have to do is read the books and memorize the stuff you need. Hitler had book smarts, and so does this family. That doesn't make them smart by any stretch of the imagination; they are too wrapped up in their own hate and self-righteousness to see that their actions are hurting people. The older members of the family don't give a crap, because they have a victimhood mentality...everyone is against them, so it's ok to lash out and hurt people. [/QUOTE]
You're right, but I wonder if the younger ones really fail to see how their actions hurt people. The daughters - at least the older one - seemed to get off on that the way her mother does.
They also seem to enjoy having the last word after a battle of name-calling and raised voices. They know they're not changing anyone's mind or opinion, they're just there to shout the loudest. At least, that's how it seems to me.
So, what happened? The patriarch of the family (who is now dead and buried, I believe) decides homosexuality is disgusting and so turns to scripture to 'prove' how vile "fags" are? He warps passages in the bible to fit his needs and spreads the word - along with hatred and vehemence - to his children (many of whom, btw, are estranged from the family due to their beliefs and actions). They become so absorbed in their hatred and their need to prove their opinions as fact, that they screech and preach until they get the obvious reactions, which only proves to them that they've been right all along - American is doomed because her people won't bow to their 'raging mad god'.
They win either way. You agree and they will have saved you. You fight and they see how many sinners there truly are, as well as how much more 'work' they have to do.
Who marries these people? I guess we can only hope they frown on inbreeding and slowly (quickly?) die out.
excuse the lack of punctuation but shes disgusting. its like watching andrea yates get off death row for killing her children. this is what makes me so angry about my country that we allow these people to get away with so much. she should be in jail, but tahts my opinion.
*awaits slaughter* [/QUOTE]
Andrea Yates is a completely different story. She'd been on medication and then her doctor suddenly and radically altered her dosage just days before the murders.
This woman, this Phelps-Roper, however, isn't medicated and hasn't broken the law. That's the point I keep trying to make because that's what bugs me about this. They know how to manipulate people and events without stepping outside the law. As infuriating as their actions are, they cannot be stopped legally because they're not doing anything illegal.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Excellent points, both of you! I only wish I was around to get into this debate, since it seems to be over. [/QUOTE]
It seems the debate is not over after all. ;-)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
...Well, book smarts aren't hard to have...in fact I think they are the easiest type of get, all you have to do is read the books and memorize the stuff you need. Hitler had book smarts, and so does this family. That doesn't make them smart by any stretch of the imagination; they are too wrapped up in their own hate and self-righteousness to see that their actions are hurting people. The older members of the family don't give a crap, because they have a victimhood mentality...everyone is against them, so it's ok to lash out and hurt people. [/QUOTE]
You're right, but I wonder if the younger ones really fail to see how their actions hurt people. The daughters - at least the older one - seemed to get off on that the way her mother does.
They also seem to enjoy having the last word after a battle of name-calling and raised voices. They know they're not changing anyone's mind or opinion, they're just there to shout the loudest. At least, that's how it seems to me.
So, what happened? The patriarch of the family (who is now dead and buried, I believe) decides homosexuality is disgusting and so turns to scripture to 'prove' how vile "fags" are? He warps passages in the bible to fit his needs and spreads the word - along with hatred and vehemence - to his children (many of whom, btw, are estranged from the family due to their beliefs and actions). They become so absorbed in their hatred and their need to prove their opinions as fact, that they screech and preach until they get the obvious reactions, which only proves to them that they've been right all along - American is doomed because her people won't bow to their 'raging mad god'.
They win either way. You agree and they will have saved you. You fight and they see how many sinners there truly are, as well as how much more 'work' they have to do.
Who marries these people? I guess we can only hope they frown on inbreeding and slowly (quickly?) die out.