This is sort of a "branch" off of the evolution thread... gave me an idea anyway. I was thinking about religion and god and the bible. I'm not sure whether I believe in god or not :/ I mean, there's the religious and logical theory for everything... the creation of people and the universe, mainly... but I find myself believing The Big Bang Theory and Evolution more than "God created everything in 7 days." When you think about it, almost everything that has to do with science contradicts religion. I guess that's why the Catholic church hated scientists a long time ago. But anyways, I always hear all sorts of stuff about how "God makes miracles happen" and "Pray to god and angels will help you." But the thing is, we prayed all the time when my great aunt had cancer and she died. And if god can make such miracles happen, why are millions of kids in Africa dying of disease and starvation? And little kids and babies being born with birth defects and getting cancer?? Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting. They're just some "burning questions" I've always had. And you can't ask them at church because all the people will say you're crazy and going to go to hell for questioning god's existance. I just started this to see what anyone else thinks about religion. That's it...
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I think this thread might open a huge can of worms, lol.
Well, a little of my input...
I don't think science and religion really contradict so much.
Someone once explained that they can go together, "Science tells you how, Religion tells you why."
And the whole seven days thing....I just don't take it literally. Who's to say that a day meant what we know to be a 24 hour cycle? I think a lot of stuff in the Bible can be up for loose interpretation.
And with death and suffering and prayers not being answered...I dunno. It's hard, but it happens. I think whatever happens, probably happens for a reason, even if we cannot understand it.
Well, a little of my input...
I don't think science and religion really contradict so much.
Someone once explained that they can go together, "Science tells you how, Religion tells you why."
And the whole seven days thing....I just don't take it literally. Who's to say that a day meant what we know to be a 24 hour cycle? I think a lot of stuff in the Bible can be up for loose interpretation.
And with death and suffering and prayers not being answered...I dunno. It's hard, but it happens. I think whatever happens, probably happens for a reason, even if we cannot understand it.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=lime>KillerQueen840 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]And the whole seven days thing....I just don't take it literally. Who's to say that a day meant what we know to be a 24 hour cycle?[/QUOTE]
Ichhh, that's really smart! I think I'm going to borrow this argument for later.. :00
Ichhh, that's really smart! I think I'm going to borrow this argument for later.. :00
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=teal>Cookies!<h6>A scientist wrote: [/QUOTENAME] I was thinking about religion and god and the bible. I'm not sure whether I believe in god or not :/ [/QUOTE]
Buy Richard Dawkins' book, "The God Delusion". Read it carefully cover to cover. When you finish, I doubt you'll question whether you believe in god.
Buy Richard Dawkins' book, "The God Delusion". Read it carefully cover to cover. When you finish, I doubt you'll question whether you believe in god.
I figured a belief in God is totally subjective...like, if one person picks one way or another to believe, it'd be difficult to convince him otherwise.
I mean, I suppose I can see how it's totally plausible for one to believe that a god created all the natural principles we humans understand.
I mean, I suppose I can see how it's totally plausible for one to believe that a god created all the natural principles we humans understand.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I mean, I suppose I can see how it's totally plausible for one to believe that a god created all the natural principles we humans understand.[/QUOTE]
But what's the point of wondering where such things originated if we'll never know, especially if there is no tangible way to put any of these philosophical theories to the test? Philosophy is important for understanding your current existence, and can propel you into the future. The point is that we can think about these things... not "when did the thinking begin?". It's irrelevant, and an absolute waste of time, in my opinion.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=teal>Cookies!<h6>A scientist wrote: [/QUOTENAME]They're just some "burning questions" I've always had. And you can't ask them at church because all the people will say you're crazy and going to go to hell for questioning god's existance.[/QUOTE]
Those are called "fear tactics". They can only affect you if you let them. And it seems you've conquered that. Good job. Spread the good word.
But what's the point of wondering where such things originated if we'll never know, especially if there is no tangible way to put any of these philosophical theories to the test? Philosophy is important for understanding your current existence, and can propel you into the future. The point is that we can think about these things... not "when did the thinking begin?". It's irrelevant, and an absolute waste of time, in my opinion.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=teal>Cookies!<h6>A scientist wrote: [/QUOTENAME]They're just some "burning questions" I've always had. And you can't ask them at church because all the people will say you're crazy and going to go to hell for questioning god's existance.[/QUOTE]
Those are called "fear tactics". They can only affect you if you let them. And it seems you've conquered that. Good job. Spread the good word.
Evolution is not a matter of beliving. It is proven. You also don't have to believe the Earth isn't the middle of the universe or that it is flat.
I hate to contradict Chicken on this one, but evolution is NOT proven. Neither, for that matter, is gravity.
Nothing in science is proven...nothing is an absolute truth. Everything in theory. And the reason it is that way is to make sure that false beliefs don't develope. The harder you make it to prove something always true, the harder you test it, the more you understand it. That's why nothing in science is proven.
Now, granted that gravity and evolution are still technically theories, but they are mainstream, accepted by anyone with a brian theories. They will never be truths, because we can't ever know what is going to come along in the future. There may come a time when we can prove the theory of gravity wrong....we never know. But we accept gravity and evolution as truths because they have been proven in 99.9999 percent of cases, and don't look likely to be disproven in the future. But that doesn't mean they can't be...semantics matter.
That being said...religion is a personal decision...one that I decided on a long time ago. I think that religion is a tool of social control, and can be used as a tool of political control as well. Don't get me wrong...religion has been responsible for great works of art and beautiful music and such...but it's also been responsible for great evil in the world, the very evil it purports to be against. Personally, I think that if there is a God, and I'm not sure on that one at all, I think the whole "Why are their different religions in the world" thing may be a test to see if humans can transcend differences and get along together peacefully...and we've seen how wonderfully well that has worked out.
For my own mind...I don't see the point in wasting my time worrying about what's going to happen to me when I die. I really don't care. You are dead...that's the certainty. What happens after that, I honestly don't care all that much. I think most of the afterlife theories are a result of the human mind's need to comfort ourselves with "They are in a better place" or need for justice if justice can't be served in this world "They will be punished in hell". It's a coping device, nothing more.
The way that I look at it, we only have a short time on the planet; a short time to be alive. I personally don't want to spend it worrying about an afterlife that may or may not exist...I'd rather live life that I know to be real while I can. Does this make me evil? According to the religious zelots, yeah. But, I honestly couldn't give a crap what they think. Let them have their religion, and they will die without ever having truly lived. I personally have bigger things to do and better things to worry about than "Divine judgement in the afterlife."
You go your way...and I'll go mine. We can co-exist, as long as both of us respect the fact that we disagree. Have your religion, that's fine with me...but don't shove it down my throat. I'll have my beliefs, and I won't shove them down yours.
Nothing in science is proven...nothing is an absolute truth. Everything in theory. And the reason it is that way is to make sure that false beliefs don't develope. The harder you make it to prove something always true, the harder you test it, the more you understand it. That's why nothing in science is proven.
Now, granted that gravity and evolution are still technically theories, but they are mainstream, accepted by anyone with a brian theories. They will never be truths, because we can't ever know what is going to come along in the future. There may come a time when we can prove the theory of gravity wrong....we never know. But we accept gravity and evolution as truths because they have been proven in 99.9999 percent of cases, and don't look likely to be disproven in the future. But that doesn't mean they can't be...semantics matter.
That being said...religion is a personal decision...one that I decided on a long time ago. I think that religion is a tool of social control, and can be used as a tool of political control as well. Don't get me wrong...religion has been responsible for great works of art and beautiful music and such...but it's also been responsible for great evil in the world, the very evil it purports to be against. Personally, I think that if there is a God, and I'm not sure on that one at all, I think the whole "Why are their different religions in the world" thing may be a test to see if humans can transcend differences and get along together peacefully...and we've seen how wonderfully well that has worked out.
For my own mind...I don't see the point in wasting my time worrying about what's going to happen to me when I die. I really don't care. You are dead...that's the certainty. What happens after that, I honestly don't care all that much. I think most of the afterlife theories are a result of the human mind's need to comfort ourselves with "They are in a better place" or need for justice if justice can't be served in this world "They will be punished in hell". It's a coping device, nothing more.
The way that I look at it, we only have a short time on the planet; a short time to be alive. I personally don't want to spend it worrying about an afterlife that may or may not exist...I'd rather live life that I know to be real while I can. Does this make me evil? According to the religious zelots, yeah. But, I honestly couldn't give a crap what they think. Let them have their religion, and they will die without ever having truly lived. I personally have bigger things to do and better things to worry about than "Divine judgement in the afterlife."
You go your way...and I'll go mine. We can co-exist, as long as both of us respect the fact that we disagree. Have your religion, that's fine with me...but don't shove it down my throat. I'll have my beliefs, and I won't shove them down yours.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I mean, I suppose I can see how it's totally plausible for one to believe that a god created all the natural principles we humans understand.[/QUOTE]
But what's the point of wondering where such things originated if we'll never know, especially if there is no tangible way to put any of these philosophical theories to the test? Philosophy is important for understanding your current existence, and can propel you into the future. The point is that we can think about these things... not "when did the thinking begin?". It's irrelevant, and an absolute waste of time, in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I left out a sentence I had previously had in my post that went something along the lines of, "I don't really bother thinking about such things, because it's all quite irrelevant. You'll never know what you'll never know, so there's no use trying to know it."
Like I always say, I'd be an agnostic, but that implies I actually put some thought into it.
But what's the point of wondering where such things originated if we'll never know, especially if there is no tangible way to put any of these philosophical theories to the test? Philosophy is important for understanding your current existence, and can propel you into the future. The point is that we can think about these things... not "when did the thinking begin?". It's irrelevant, and an absolute waste of time, in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I left out a sentence I had previously had in my post that went something along the lines of, "I don't really bother thinking about such things, because it's all quite irrelevant. You'll never know what you'll never know, so there's no use trying to know it."
Like I always say, I'd be an agnostic, but that implies I actually put some thought into it.
Evolution HAS been proven.
I seriously can't believe intelligent people believe in a god. Especially people who believe in god and evolution and the big bang.
How on earth can you believe in a god that just pushed the first dominoblock and watched what happened. Cause that is what you believe in.
I seriously can't believe intelligent people believe in a god. Especially people who believe in god and evolution and the big bang.
How on earth can you believe in a god that just pushed the first dominoblock and watched what happened. Cause that is what you believe in.
Evolution has been proven...in as far as we know how to prove it now.
My point was that science never says anything is a law unless we can say for certain that nothing in the future could over-turn what has been "proven", ergo nothing is truly "proven" because we don't know what the future holds.
I do believe in evolution, but it's a matter of semantics here.
My point was that science never says anything is a law unless we can say for certain that nothing in the future could over-turn what has been "proven", ergo nothing is truly "proven" because we don't know what the future holds.
I do believe in evolution, but it's a matter of semantics here.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Evolution has been proven...in as far as we know how to prove it now. [/QUOTE]
And that's the key difference between science and religion, isn't it? Science is open to future discoveries while religion literally fights to stay as it was for ages without allowance for growth or new intelligence.
And that's the key difference between science and religion, isn't it? Science is open to future discoveries while religion literally fights to stay as it was for ages without allowance for growth or new intelligence.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
religion literally fights to stay as it was for ages without allowance for growth or new intelligence.
[/QUOTE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
Religion is capable of growth and exciting new directions, as shown in the link above, but it's often those who stress strict dogma that shout the loudest.
religion literally fights to stay as it was for ages without allowance for growth or new intelligence.
[/QUOTE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
Religion is capable of growth and exciting new directions, as shown in the link above, but it's often those who stress strict dogma that shout the loudest.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zeni wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
religion literally fights to stay as it was for ages without allowance for growth or new intelligence.
[/QUOTE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
Religion is capable of growth and exciting new directions, as shown in the link above, but it's often those who stress strict dogma that shout the loudest.[/QUOTE]
While I understand your point, I see this as a way of maintaining the base religion while adding contemporary views.
From http://www.landreform.org/
"The movement that came to be called "Liberation Theology" began with the awareness that it is blasphemous to care for people's souls while ignoring their needs for food, shelter and human dignity. As Jesus participated in the suffering of the poor, and proclaimed to them the good news of justice and freedom, so must today's church engage in the struggle for justice in this world."
Yes, that and more means it's changed, but not in the way that a scientific 'conclusion' will change with new evidence.
religion literally fights to stay as it was for ages without allowance for growth or new intelligence.
[/QUOTE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
Religion is capable of growth and exciting new directions, as shown in the link above, but it's often those who stress strict dogma that shout the loudest.[/QUOTE]
While I understand your point, I see this as a way of maintaining the base religion while adding contemporary views.
From http://www.landreform.org/
"The movement that came to be called "Liberation Theology" began with the awareness that it is blasphemous to care for people's souls while ignoring their needs for food, shelter and human dignity. As Jesus participated in the suffering of the poor, and proclaimed to them the good news of justice and freedom, so must today's church engage in the struggle for justice in this world."
Yes, that and more means it's changed, but not in the way that a scientific 'conclusion' will change with new evidence.
Sorry, double post.