[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The Show Must Go On:
Contrary to belief, Brian wrote this song.[/QUOTE]
Sort of ... he wrote the lyrics and melody, and organised the arrangement. But the sequence (which is 90% of the song) was composed by John and Roger.[/QUOTE]
Lyrics, melody and arrangement = only 10% of the song? Shurely shome misthake?
Your 90% remark is presumably a total guess since you have no idea about the original "sequence" or how much was changed by other band members. Or is there a demo doing the rounds?
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The Show Must Go On:
Contrary to belief, Brian wrote this song.[/QUOTE]
Sort of ... he wrote the lyrics and melody, and organised the arrangement. But the sequence (which is 90% of the song) was composed by John and Roger.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by sequence?
Take care
Contrary to belief, Brian wrote this song.[/QUOTE]
Sort of ... he wrote the lyrics and melody, and organised the arrangement. But the sequence (which is 90% of the song) was composed by John and Roger.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by sequence?
Take care
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals.
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]...ASSDUDE.... wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals. [/QUOTE]
I got my information from Queen Complete Works.
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals. [/QUOTE]
I got my information from Queen Complete Works.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]...ASSDUDE.... wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals. [/QUOTE]
That was to see how the guitar would sound.... I imagine. Brian said it was Freddie who wrote it.
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals. [/QUOTE]
That was to see how the guitar would sound.... I imagine. Brian said it was Freddie who wrote it.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]...ASSDUDE.... wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals. [/QUOTE]
I got my information from Queen Complete Works.[/QUOTE]
thats fair enough
The Hitman:
This song was originally written by Freddie on the keyboards; however, Freddie gave it to John who restructured the track (while keeping true to the original riff which is a Freddie riff). Brian also changed the key to make it playable on the guitar.
[/QUOTE]
sounds more like a Brian song... Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals. [/QUOTE]
I got my information from Queen Complete Works.[/QUOTE]
thats fair enough
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]John S Stuart wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
If there's bad production on any Queen album, for me it's Innuendo. Hitman is the absolute worst sounding track on the album...[/QUOTE]
Anyone actually listen to 'White Man' on the 'Day At The Races' LP/ CD?
How anyone can hear anything beyond the tape hiss is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's not tape hiss at all. It's Brian's set up, AC-30 + Treble Booster ++++ fOXX phaser. An AC-30 with a treble booster alone will hiss like crazy, and adding a fOXX phaser make it hiss even more. There's really nothing a producer can do about it but add a noise reducer and that tends to change the sound.
Check out the song live and you can still hear this hiss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ey-szvsCtM
The actual progression of the song makes it more noticeable. It starts off with guitar and there's nothing playing with it. So, it's very hard to hide without drums, bass and piano. Usually Brian would use the fOXX phaser in the middle of a song, while playing solos, like BoRhap. Brian stopped using the fOXX phaser around '82, then he started using a Boss Chorus CE-1.
If there's bad production on any Queen album, for me it's Innuendo. Hitman is the absolute worst sounding track on the album...[/QUOTE]
Anyone actually listen to 'White Man' on the 'Day At The Races' LP/ CD?
How anyone can hear anything beyond the tape hiss is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's not tape hiss at all. It's Brian's set up, AC-30 + Treble Booster ++++ fOXX phaser. An AC-30 with a treble booster alone will hiss like crazy, and adding a fOXX phaser make it hiss even more. There's really nothing a producer can do about it but add a noise reducer and that tends to change the sound.
Check out the song live and you can still hear this hiss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ey-szvsCtM
The actual progression of the song makes it more noticeable. It starts off with guitar and there's nothing playing with it. So, it's very hard to hide without drums, bass and piano. Usually Brian would use the fOXX phaser in the middle of a song, while playing solos, like BoRhap. Brian stopped using the fOXX phaser around '82, then he started using a Boss Chorus CE-1.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]John S Stuart wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
If there's bad production on any Queen album, for me it's Innuendo. Hitman is the absolute worst sounding track on the album...[/QUOTE]
Anyone actually listen to 'White Man' on the 'Day At The Races' LP/ CD?
How anyone can hear anything beyond the tape hiss is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
To me there is a lot of amp buzz, half decent engineers get round it easily enough, i think it is left on purpose for some reason.
If there's bad production on any Queen album, for me it's Innuendo. Hitman is the absolute worst sounding track on the album...[/QUOTE]
Anyone actually listen to 'White Man' on the 'Day At The Races' LP/ CD?
How anyone can hear anything beyond the tape hiss is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
To me there is a lot of amp buzz, half decent engineers get round it easily enough, i think it is left on purpose for some reason.
> Lyrics, melody and arrangement = only 10% of the song?
No, but in terms of who composed it, and in the case of TSMGO, the sequence is 90% of the song (because verses, choruses, intro and solos are all done over such sequence).
Remember 'Knocking on Heaven's Door': when GnR covered it, they added solos, bass-parts, etc. but they were all done over the I > V > IV sequence. That's why the song is still Bob Dylan's, even if they arranged it.
Same case here: Brian is the chief lyricist and arranger, but not the (main) composer.
> Your 90% remark is presumably a total guess since you have no idea about the original "sequence" or how much was changed by other band members.
Read the KOHD comment again. Or another case: 'With A Little Help From My Friends'.
> What do you mean by sequence?
Bm > Bsus2 > Bsus4 > Bm, then G > G5- > G6 > G and so on...
> sounds more like a Brian song...
Actually not. If you check out the music, it's much more Freddie-esque. The fact that it's heavy doesn't mean it's May's.
> Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals.
A 1 minute demo doesn't prove anything.
No, but in terms of who composed it, and in the case of TSMGO, the sequence is 90% of the song (because verses, choruses, intro and solos are all done over such sequence).
Remember 'Knocking on Heaven's Door': when GnR covered it, they added solos, bass-parts, etc. but they were all done over the I > V > IV sequence. That's why the song is still Bob Dylan's, even if they arranged it.
Same case here: Brian is the chief lyricist and arranger, but not the (main) composer.
> Your 90% remark is presumably a total guess since you have no idea about the original "sequence" or how much was changed by other band members.
Read the KOHD comment again. Or another case: 'With A Little Help From My Friends'.
> What do you mean by sequence?
Bm > Bsus2 > Bsus4 > Bm, then G > G5- > G6 > G and so on...
> sounds more like a Brian song...
Actually not. If you check out the music, it's much more Freddie-esque. The fact that it's heavy doesn't mean it's May's.
> Theres even a demo with Just Brian on Vocals.
A 1 minute demo doesn't prove anything.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]artemismoon wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]John S Stuart wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
If there's bad production on any Queen album, for me it's Innuendo. Hitman is the absolute worst sounding track on the album...[/QUOTE]
Anyone actually listen to 'White Man' on the 'Day At The Races' LP/ CD?
How anyone can hear anything beyond the tape hiss is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's not tape hiss at all. It's Brian's set up, AC-30 + Treble Booster ++++ fOXX phaser. An AC-30 with a treble booster alone will hiss like crazy, and adding a fOXX phaser make it hiss even more. There's really nothing a producer can do about it but add a noise reducer and that tends to change the sound.
Check out the song live and you can still hear this hiss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ey-szvsCtM
The actual progression of the song makes it more noticeable. It starts off with guitar and there's nothing playing with it. So, it's very hard to hide without drums, bass and piano. Usually Brian would use the fOXX phaser in the middle of a song, while playing solos, like BoRhap. Brian stopped using the fOXX phaser around '82, then he started using a Boss Chorus CE-1.[/QUOTE]
artemismoon: I bow to your superior knowledge. I did not know any of this. To my untrained ears it sounds like an old tape on a non-Dolby playback system.
I love the song, it's a pity that it can not be cleaned up digitally though...
If there's bad production on any Queen album, for me it's Innuendo. Hitman is the absolute worst sounding track on the album...[/QUOTE]
Anyone actually listen to 'White Man' on the 'Day At The Races' LP/ CD?
How anyone can hear anything beyond the tape hiss is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's not tape hiss at all. It's Brian's set up, AC-30 + Treble Booster ++++ fOXX phaser. An AC-30 with a treble booster alone will hiss like crazy, and adding a fOXX phaser make it hiss even more. There's really nothing a producer can do about it but add a noise reducer and that tends to change the sound.
Check out the song live and you can still hear this hiss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ey-szvsCtM
The actual progression of the song makes it more noticeable. It starts off with guitar and there's nothing playing with it. So, it's very hard to hide without drums, bass and piano. Usually Brian would use the fOXX phaser in the middle of a song, while playing solos, like BoRhap. Brian stopped using the fOXX phaser around '82, then he started using a Boss Chorus CE-1.[/QUOTE]
artemismoon: I bow to your superior knowledge. I did not know any of this. To my untrained ears it sounds like an old tape on a non-Dolby playback system.
I love the song, it's a pity that it can not be cleaned up digitally though...
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]> Lyrics, melody and arrangement = only 10% of the song?
No, but in terms of who composed it, and in the case of TSMGO, the sequence is 90% of the song (because verses, choruses, intro and solos are all done over such sequence).
Remember 'Knocking on Heaven's Door': when GnR covered it, they added solos, bass-parts, etc. but they were all done over the I > V > IV sequence. That's why the song is still Bob Dylan's, even if they arranged it.
Same case here: Brian is the chief lyricist and arranger, but not the (main) composer.
> Your 90% remark is presumably a total guess since you have no idea about the original "sequence" or how much was changed by other band members.
Read the KOHD comment again. Or another case: 'With A Little Help From My Friends'.
[/QUOTE]
I don't see how you can make such a judgement unless you know what Brian's original version sounds like. In the case of KOHD you know what the original sounds like so you know how different or similar a cover is. In this case you don't know what the original Brian version sounded like -- unless you have heard a demo (have you?).
No, but in terms of who composed it, and in the case of TSMGO, the sequence is 90% of the song (because verses, choruses, intro and solos are all done over such sequence).
Remember 'Knocking on Heaven's Door': when GnR covered it, they added solos, bass-parts, etc. but they were all done over the I > V > IV sequence. That's why the song is still Bob Dylan's, even if they arranged it.
Same case here: Brian is the chief lyricist and arranger, but not the (main) composer.
> Your 90% remark is presumably a total guess since you have no idea about the original "sequence" or how much was changed by other band members.
Read the KOHD comment again. Or another case: 'With A Little Help From My Friends'.
[/QUOTE]
I don't see how you can make such a judgement unless you know what Brian's original version sounds like. In the case of KOHD you know what the original sounds like so you know how different or similar a cover is. In this case you don't know what the original Brian version sounded like -- unless you have heard a demo (have you?).
I don't know how the 'original' one sounded like, but I do know Brian credited John and Roger for the sequence.
Now: the sequence, in this case, is 90% of the song.
Hence: Brian isn't that song's main composer (chord-wise), although he's obviously the main (or even only) composer melody-wise, the main lyricist and the main arranger.
Now: the sequence, in this case, is 90% of the song.
Hence: Brian isn't that song's main composer (chord-wise), although he's obviously the main (or even only) composer melody-wise, the main lyricist and the main arranger.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I don't know how the 'original' one sounded like, but I do know Brian credited John and Roger for the sequence.
Now: the sequence, in this case, is 90% of the song.
Hence: Brian isn't that song's main composer (chord-wise), although he's obviously the main (or even only) composer melody-wise, the main lyricist and the main arranger.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I've listened to your views but I just don't think there's enough info to make a judgment that 90% is John & Roger's and 10% Brian's. Without knowing the original 'sequence' it's impossible to know how much is different or similar. I would argue also that the lyrics are much more important in this song than the small weight you give to them. (In fact, for some people the lyrics of songs are much more important than the music -- Billy Bragg or Woody Guthrie, for example). If I had to assign 'credit' for the song given the info available it would be "lyrics by brian May, musical arrangement by Taylor/Deacon". Assigning percentages is, however, meaningless.
Now: the sequence, in this case, is 90% of the song.
Hence: Brian isn't that song's main composer (chord-wise), although he's obviously the main (or even only) composer melody-wise, the main lyricist and the main arranger.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I've listened to your views but I just don't think there's enough info to make a judgment that 90% is John & Roger's and 10% Brian's. Without knowing the original 'sequence' it's impossible to know how much is different or similar. I would argue also that the lyrics are much more important in this song than the small weight you give to them. (In fact, for some people the lyrics of songs are much more important than the music -- Billy Bragg or Woody Guthrie, for example). If I had to assign 'credit' for the song given the info available it would be "lyrics by brian May, musical arrangement by Taylor/Deacon". Assigning percentages is, however, meaningless.
Getting back to Mack.
I don't have the benefit of being old here. I didn't grow up with Queen and haven't heard any of their albums whilst "new". But as a musician and a music lover in general I feel compelled to comment.
As far as what Queen should sound like in my mind, Mack isn't there I'm afraid. Roy Thomas Baker's albums with the band sound the best to me. A total overblown sound of a producer and band that doesn't know where to stop is my ideal. And in the 70's Queen had this. NOTW & Jazz begin to fall into oblivion however. These two albums are figuratively and chronological in between the RTB & Mack era's. Songs like FFTI just don't sound good to me.
So in step's Mack and out comes The Game. And to be fair, I love the way AOBTD sounds. I think that this is what Mack should be doing. But that's because AOBTD is such a departure from the Queen of old. The sythns sound really bad as well. Queen started using them way to early. David Richards is generally better, MIH being the best sounding, but ICLWY was so underdone its quite shocking.
However Mack by all accounts was neccessary in keeping Queen current. Plenty of bands use the "Wall of sound" technique today, but none of them are very mainstream.
I don't have the benefit of being old here. I didn't grow up with Queen and haven't heard any of their albums whilst "new". But as a musician and a music lover in general I feel compelled to comment.
As far as what Queen should sound like in my mind, Mack isn't there I'm afraid. Roy Thomas Baker's albums with the band sound the best to me. A total overblown sound of a producer and band that doesn't know where to stop is my ideal. And in the 70's Queen had this. NOTW & Jazz begin to fall into oblivion however. These two albums are figuratively and chronological in between the RTB & Mack era's. Songs like FFTI just don't sound good to me.
So in step's Mack and out comes The Game. And to be fair, I love the way AOBTD sounds. I think that this is what Mack should be doing. But that's because AOBTD is such a departure from the Queen of old. The sythns sound really bad as well. Queen started using them way to early. David Richards is generally better, MIH being the best sounding, but ICLWY was so underdone its quite shocking.
However Mack by all accounts was neccessary in keeping Queen current. Plenty of bands use the "Wall of sound" technique today, but none of them are very mainstream.
The 70' music in general is totally different to the 80's music. So in order to still sell records you need ot chnage with the times.
I can say that being an 80/90's boy, I only had queens 80's stuff to listen to, and it was mind blowing. Hearing Tear it up was fucking awsome! Hearing the Miracal album, was bloody aswome! It was music of the time, it was Queen at there most contempory. Having the works, AKOM and the Mircal, I also had hot space, but... hhmm didnt like it much, they were great fucking albums to be brought up on. As I discovered there 70's stuff, straght away, it sounded muffled. It didnt sound clear nor crisp. I didnt like it (love it now and understand all the muffled sound).
Point im trying to make is that, for the time, these albums were from a band that did not sound old, not many bands from the 70's still went in to the 80's with fantastic success. So, on that note, yes, mack was a great producer. Dont forget, at this time, queen knew what they were doin and wanted. so... i think its unfair to dismiss mack's talents.
I can say that being an 80/90's boy, I only had queens 80's stuff to listen to, and it was mind blowing. Hearing Tear it up was fucking awsome! Hearing the Miracal album, was bloody aswome! It was music of the time, it was Queen at there most contempory. Having the works, AKOM and the Mircal, I also had hot space, but... hhmm didnt like it much, they were great fucking albums to be brought up on. As I discovered there 70's stuff, straght away, it sounded muffled. It didnt sound clear nor crisp. I didnt like it (love it now and understand all the muffled sound).
Point im trying to make is that, for the time, these albums were from a band that did not sound old, not many bands from the 70's still went in to the 80's with fantastic success. So, on that note, yes, mack was a great producer. Dont forget, at this time, queen knew what they were doin and wanted. so... i think its unfair to dismiss mack's talents.