GB: PROBABLY BETTER I REPLY IN CAP LETTERS, JUST FOR EASE OF SEEING WHICH ARE MY WORDS, AND WHICH ARE JSS's...
I have been reading the existing 'singles box-set' threads with
interest, and hopefully, without regurgutating the same old points, I
thought now was the correct time to write this mail to those who may
read it with an open mind.
I stress this is [b]my[/b] mail - and makes [b]my[/b] points.
If others have a different opinion - then that is good - but please start your own threads rather than flame mine.
I also understand that I am not forced or compelled to do anything against my will.
However, I do believe 'some' Queen fans agree with me, and so I thought
I would like to articulate these thoughts on both mine (and their
behalf). So; if at least one other person agrees with me, please leave
a supporting message to show that it has been worthwhile.
For example - I am [b]very[/b] lucky, as I own six watches:
A 'Rolex Perpetual Submariner' which I received as an anniversary present.
A 1947 'Omega Chronometer Classic' which I inherited from my late father-in-law.
An 'Accurist Greenwich Commemorative Limited edition' (which I bought myself)
A '2001 Hamilton Electronic' a friend took back from the USA.
A Queen 'The Works' promo wrist-watch (another present), and finally,
A cheap 'Swatch' men's chronograph - which I wear most of the time.
Now my point is - I am [b]not[/b] in the market for another watch.
If anyone wanted to buy me another watch for Christmas - please don't - I have enough.
Spend your money on something much more needed and worthwhile.
Therefore, I do not write this from 'sour grapes'. Nor do I have an axe to grind.
GB: THIS IS A VERY FAIR POINT. BUT IT DOES NOT CATER FOR ONE VERY BASIC, IN FACT RUDIMENTARY POINT/CONSIDERATION.... 'DUPLICATING' ONES COLLECTION, BUYING THE SAME OR SIMILAR ITEM/S OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS A BIG PART OF COLLECTING.
COLLECTORS BUY VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL THINGS ALL THE TIME, DIFFERENT ONLY DUE TO SOME MINOR DETAIL. THAT IS THE VERY NATURE OF COLLECTING.
RECORD COLLECTORS, LIKE TEA-POT OR STAMP COLLECTORS, DON'T STOP BUYING THINGS IN A NEW FORMAT BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE IT IN OTHER FORMS ALREADY. OF COURSE THEY DON'T.
YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE 6 WATCHES, SO DON'T NEED MORE WATCHES. BUT A SERIOUS COLLECTOR OF WATCHES MIGHT VERY WELL BUY THE SAME WATCH OVER AND OVER, IF ONE VERSION WAS RED, ANOTHER BLACK, OR ONE WAS LEATHER STRAP BUT THE RAREST VERSION HAD A METAL STRAP, ETC ETC. HAVING EVERY VERSION IS WHAT MAKES THE CHASE EXCITING TO MOST COLLECTORS. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT A 'COLLECTION'.
Even if the 'singles box-set' was made from solid gold discs and jewel encrusted sleeves - I would still [b]not[/b] be interested.
I do [b]not[/b] want it - I do [b]not[/b] need it.
GB: DID YOU BUY GREATEST HITS 1 OR 2 OR 3??? OR QUEEN ROCKS? OR THE COMPLETE WORKS BOX? OR THE BOX OF TRICKS? DID YOU BUY THE FLIX BOXED SET EVEN THOUGH YOU ALREADY HAD 1 AND 2 AS SINGLE VHSs? AS SOON AS YOU HAD ALL THE QUEEN ALBUMS AND SINGLES (WITH NON-ALBUM TRACKS) YOU BASICALLY HAD IT ALL. ANYTHING THEREAFTER WAS A CASE OF RE-PURCHASING SONGS YOU ALREADY HAD.
ALL OF US HAS IN OUR COLLECTION THE PLATINUM BOX CD, THE GREATEST HITS 1 AND 2 BOX OF 1994, QUEEN ROCKS, THE 12" COLLECTION CD (1992), NUMEROUS COMPILATION LP'S, THE USA 'CLASSIC QUEEN' AND 'GREATEST HITS' CDS ALSO OF 1992 (AND THE RELATED VHSs).... AND SO MANY OTHERS, BUT IT'S ALL MATERIAL WE HAD ALREADY AND DID NOT REALLY 'NEED' AGAIN - TO USE YOUR LOGIC.
EVEN THE 'RARE' LP IN THE COMPLETE WORKS BOX WAS STUFF WE ALL HAD ALREADY ON 7" VINYL. SO WHY BUY THAT?
WHY YOU AND OTHERS HAVE SINGLED OUT (NO PUN INTENDED) QUEEN SINGLES COLLECTION BOX 1 FOR THIS UNFAIR TREATMENT, ESCAPES ME.
IT'S A VALID POINT WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT NOT ACTUALLY 'NEEDING IT'.... BUT, BE FAIR, AND APPLY THE SAME LOGIC TO SO MANY OTHER PRODUCTS TOO.
I TAKE IT THAT YOU NEVER EVER BUY A QUEEN PRODUCT THAT HAS CONTENT YOU ALREADY HAVE IN ANOTHER FORM????
OF COURSE YOU DO. YOU BOUGHT GREATEST HITS 1, 2 AND 3 JUST LIKE ANY FAN/COLLECTOR DID. BUT NOW SUDDENLY IT'S A DIFFERENT STORY FOR QS1. ONE LAW FOR CERTAIN PRODUCTS AND ANOTHER LAW FOR THIS. IT'S JUST NOT CONSISTENT.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
It really is that simple - and in today's credit crunch economics and
'environmentally' friendly climate - I think that this message should
be heard [b]clear[/b] and [b]loud[/b] - the 'singles box-set' is a
marketing disaster. (As I so eloquently expressed in the past -
wrapping sh*t in tinfoil does not make it chocolate!).
SO WHY HAVE SIX WATCHES AT ALL. ONE WOULD SUFFICE, JOHN.
QUESTION FOR YOU, JSS. YOU ARE APPARENTLY A GREAT EXPERT OF RECORD MARKETING IN THE 21ST CENTURY. THIS I SUGGEST BECAUSE YOU SO EMPHATICALLY ANNOUNCE, EXPERT WITH 25 RECORD RETAILING EXPERIENCE-LIKE, THAT " the 'singles box-set' is a marketing disaster."
BUT JOHN... THIS BOX IS SELLING EXTREMELY WELL TO PRECISELY THE PEOPLE IT WAS AIMED AT. THE BOX IS BEING ADVERTISED IN NUMEROUS MAGAZINES PURCHASED BY GENERAL MUSIC LOVERS (AS WELL AS IN SPECIALIST COLLECTORS' MAGS) AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC, OR 'THE MASSES' (IF YOU PREFER) ARE INDEED BUYING IT IN THEIR DROVES. IT'S ONLY THE DIE HARD FANS LIKE YOU AND 'CLEAR' ETC, THAT 'THINK' IT'S a marketing disaster. HOW DO YOU FIGURE???
JSS. WHAT YOU REALLY MEAN, IS THAT IT ISN'T WHAT 'YOU' WANTED. YOU ARE UPSET AND ANNOYED SO ARE BLEATING OUT UNFOUNDED COMMENT LIKE the 'singles box-set' is a marketing disaster, WHEN THE REALITY IS THAT IT'S SELLING VERY WELL.
Forget all the 'yes-men' mentality and sychophants. (If only someone had the bottle to tell Elvis he was eating too many burgers, or had the guts to say that Ali faught one fight too many - what different tales we could now tell).
GB: IT WAS NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS, JOHN. YOU COULD ATTACH THAT LOGIC TO.... "IF ONLY PEOPLE HAD LISTENED TO THE SO CALLED 'EXPERT' RECORD EXECS IN 1975 AND CUT BO RHAPSODY DOWN TO 3 MINUTES." WHAT THE HELL DID THOSE PEOPLE KNOW TOO?????? NOTHING.
[b]Might[/b] (as history tells us) - does not mean [b]right[/b] - and this product is [b]not[/b] right on so many levels - and needs to be acknowledged as such.
GB: ACCORDING TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW ARROGANT DO YOU SOUND.
IT IS RIGHT IF IT IS SELLING TO PRECISELY THE MARKET IT'S PITCHED AT. IT'S AS RIGHT AS A PRODUCT CAN BE. YOU'RE GETTING CONFUSED WITH WHAT YOU WANTED AND WHAT YOU GOT.... NOT WHAT WAS 'RIGHT'.
Spin is for politicians, not buisness men. Queen are now a dying band - and if they think they are immune from the buffeting of the current economic fall-out, they will soon find that like F.W. Woolworths, they too will collapse from corporate incompetence.
GB: THIS IS RUBBISH. QUEEN WILL BE SELLING RECORDS AND DVDS FOR THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS JOHN, JUST LIKE ELVIS WILL BE, AND U2 AND ELTON JOHN. YOU DO TALK ROT SOMETIMES.
I really do not expect any sensible discussion or reply from GB or the 'powers that be', but the main lesson from 'Woolies' is - 'do not deliver - and the public will quickly move on'.
GB: YOU'RE COMPARING WOOLWORTHS TO QUEEN. LUDICROUS.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE DIE HARD LONG TERM FANS LIKE YOU AND ME AND OTHER QZ-ERS THAT KEEP THE QUEEN CDS AND DVDS HIGH IN THE CHARTS, OR THE 'MASSES', THE GENERAL MUSIC LOVERS OUT THERE - THE MILLIONS THAT HAVE SEEN THE WWRY MUSICAL AND THE Q+PR SHOWS?????? COME ON JSS, GET REAL. REALLY.
IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT. IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.
YOUR WOOLWORTHS ANALOGY IS ABSURD IN THIS CONTEXT.
As it is, I have a wallet full of cash and credit cards - but Queen PLC (do not deserve) or will smell one penny of it - and without money, QPL will quickly wither and dry-up.
GB: NOW YOU'RE SOUNDING LIKE A PETULANT FOOLISH CHILD JSS. LETS SEE HOW THE NEXT QUEEN (NOT Q+PR) CD AND DVD DOES IN THE INTERNATIONAL CHARTS. LET'S SEE IF QPL WITHER AND DRY UP. I THINK NOT. I THINK YOU KNOW IT TOO. NO POINT IN SAYING IT.
If QPL want my (or my representative) cash in the future, they better come up with some seriously inventive ideas - or it sounds like the death knell for one of rock's most ingenious and innovative bands.
[b]PS[/b]: Yes, I dare say QPL [b]could[/b] survive without my single meagre solitary contribution to this project
GB: DEAD RIGHT. NOW YOU'RE GETTING IT.
- but like many in here, I feel that my voice is [b]not[/b] alone - and in that sense, united we may be able to boycott this sort of tatt in the future. Perhaps then, democracy may return to the paying customer.
GB: I WISH I LIVED IN YOUR UTOPIAN WORLD.
JSS... QUEEN PRODUCT WILL CONTINUE TO SELL MILLIONS OF UNITS LONG LONG AFTER YOU AND I ARE DEAD AND FORGOTTEN. YOU CAN BOYCOTT ALL YOU LIKE. SO CAN I. IT'S THE MOVES AND BUYING HABITS OF THE MASSES THAT MAKE THE DIFFERENCE, NOT THE MOANINGS OF THE MINORITY. THAT'S LIFE I'M AFRAID.
SO WHY HAVE SIX WATCHES AT ALL. ONE WOULD SUFFICE, JOHN.
QUESTION FOR YOU, JSS. YOU ARE APPARENTLY A GREAT EXPERT OF RECORD MARKETING IN THE 21ST CENTURY. THIS I SUGGEST BECAUSE YOU SO EMPHATICALLY ANNOUNCE, EXPERT WITH 25 RECORD RETAILING EXPERIENCE-LIKE, THAT " the 'singles box-set' is a marketing disaster."
BUT JOHN... THIS BOX IS SELLING EXTREMELY WELL TO PRECISELY THE PEOPLE IT WAS AIMED AT. THE BOX IS BEING ADVERTISED IN NUMEROUS MAGAZINES PURCHASED BY GENERAL MUSIC LOVERS (AS WELL AS IN SPECIALIST COLLECTORS' MAGS) AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC, OR 'THE MASSES' (IF YOU PREFER) ARE INDEED BUYING IT IN THEIR DROVES. IT'S ONLY THE DIE HARD FANS LIKE YOU AND 'CLEAR' ETC, THAT 'THINK' IT'S a marketing disaster. HOW DO YOU FIGURE???
JSS. WHAT YOU REALLY MEAN, IS THAT IT ISN'T WHAT 'YOU' WANTED. YOU ARE UPSET AND ANNOYED SO ARE BLEATING OUT UNFOUNDED COMMENT LIKE the 'singles box-set' is a marketing disaster, WHEN THE REALITY IS THAT IT'S SELLING VERY WELL.
Forget all the 'yes-men' mentality and sychophants. (If only someone had the bottle to tell Elvis he was eating too many burgers, or had the guts to say that Ali faught one fight too many - what different tales we could now tell).
GB: IT WAS NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS, JOHN. YOU COULD ATTACH THAT LOGIC TO.... "IF ONLY PEOPLE HAD LISTENED TO THE SO CALLED 'EXPERT' RECORD EXECS IN 1975 AND CUT BO RHAPSODY DOWN TO 3 MINUTES." WHAT THE HELL DID THOSE PEOPLE KNOW TOO?????? NOTHING.
[b]Might[/b] (as history tells us) - does not mean [b]right[/b] - and this product is [b]not[/b] right on so many levels - and needs to be acknowledged as such.
GB: ACCORDING TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW ARROGANT DO YOU SOUND.
IT IS RIGHT IF IT IS SELLING TO PRECISELY THE MARKET IT'S PITCHED AT. IT'S AS RIGHT AS A PRODUCT CAN BE. YOU'RE GETTING CONFUSED WITH WHAT YOU WANTED AND WHAT YOU GOT.... NOT WHAT WAS 'RIGHT'.
Spin is for politicians, not buisness men. Queen are now a dying band - and if they think they are immune from the buffeting of the current economic fall-out, they will soon find that like F.W. Woolworths, they too will collapse from corporate incompetence.
GB: THIS IS RUBBISH. QUEEN WILL BE SELLING RECORDS AND DVDS FOR THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS JOHN, JUST LIKE ELVIS WILL BE, AND U2 AND ELTON JOHN. YOU DO TALK ROT SOMETIMES.
I really do not expect any sensible discussion or reply from GB or the 'powers that be', but the main lesson from 'Woolies' is - 'do not deliver - and the public will quickly move on'.
GB: YOU'RE COMPARING WOOLWORTHS TO QUEEN. LUDICROUS.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE DIE HARD LONG TERM FANS LIKE YOU AND ME AND OTHER QZ-ERS THAT KEEP THE QUEEN CDS AND DVDS HIGH IN THE CHARTS, OR THE 'MASSES', THE GENERAL MUSIC LOVERS OUT THERE - THE MILLIONS THAT HAVE SEEN THE WWRY MUSICAL AND THE Q+PR SHOWS?????? COME ON JSS, GET REAL. REALLY.
IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT. IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.
YOUR WOOLWORTHS ANALOGY IS ABSURD IN THIS CONTEXT.
As it is, I have a wallet full of cash and credit cards - but Queen PLC (do not deserve) or will smell one penny of it - and without money, QPL will quickly wither and dry-up.
GB: NOW YOU'RE SOUNDING LIKE A PETULANT FOOLISH CHILD JSS. LETS SEE HOW THE NEXT QUEEN (NOT Q+PR) CD AND DVD DOES IN THE INTERNATIONAL CHARTS. LET'S SEE IF QPL WITHER AND DRY UP. I THINK NOT. I THINK YOU KNOW IT TOO. NO POINT IN SAYING IT.
If QPL want my (or my representative) cash in the future, they better come up with some seriously inventive ideas - or it sounds like the death knell for one of rock's most ingenious and innovative bands.
[b]PS[/b]: Yes, I dare say QPL [b]could[/b] survive without my single meagre solitary contribution to this project
GB: DEAD RIGHT. NOW YOU'RE GETTING IT.
- but like many in here, I feel that my voice is [b]not[/b] alone - and in that sense, united we may be able to boycott this sort of tatt in the future. Perhaps then, democracy may return to the paying customer.
GB: I WISH I LIVED IN YOUR UTOPIAN WORLD.
JSS... QUEEN PRODUCT WILL CONTINUE TO SELL MILLIONS OF UNITS LONG LONG AFTER YOU AND I ARE DEAD AND FORGOTTEN. YOU CAN BOYCOTT ALL YOU LIKE. SO CAN I. IT'S THE MOVES AND BUYING HABITS OF THE MASSES THAT MAKE THE DIFFERENCE, NOT THE MOANINGS OF THE MINORITY. THAT'S LIFE I'M AFRAID.
I'd be happy to buy the whole frigging Queen discography - if they did it the way Genesis did. Each album fully remixed in 5.1 on DVD-A/SACD, with the original stereo mix on CD. Slap on the various video's and get Roger and Brian together for 30 minutes to talk about the album. Invite some producers, engineers or whoever worked on the albums.
It's no boxset with hours of new music - but I'd be very happy to have Queen II in 5.1 surround, Made In Heaven with Brian and Roger explaining how they worked on the tracks or Roger apologizing for More of that Jazz on the Jazz documentary.
It's no boxset with hours of new music - but I'd be very happy to have Queen II in 5.1 surround, Made In Heaven with Brian and Roger explaining how they worked on the tracks or Roger apologizing for More of that Jazz on the Jazz documentary.
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
So what is the so called public this material was aimed at? People who saw WWRY? People that were interested in Queen after knowing Q+PR? Fans born after 1991? It should come with a warning label.
About buying things "over and over": I'd buy something I already have if it was some kind of an "improved" version of it - a (well) remastered cd, for example. Throwing a couple of b-sides in a boxset with every release or something else like crappy remixes - being these b-sides or extras available elsewhere in other formats - isn't enough for me to buy something "over and over".
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
So what is the so called public this material was aimed at? People who saw WWRY? People that were interested in Queen after knowing Q+PR? Fans born after 1991? It should come with a warning label.
About buying things "over and over": I'd buy something I already have if it was some kind of an "improved" version of it - a (well) remastered cd, for example. Throwing a couple of b-sides in a boxset with every release or something else like crappy remixes - being these b-sides or extras available elsewhere in other formats - isn't enough for me to buy something "over and over".
Simple answer to all this....if you are not interested, then do not buy it. As such, I will not be buying the boxset.
Greg,
I am still waiting on the sales figures !!! How well is it selling? (NUMBERS please!)
I am still waiting on the sales figures !!! How well is it selling? (NUMBERS please!)
I don't know the rest of you but I find the term 'masses' a bit disrespectful.
And well, the archivist has officially spoken... Queen/QPL aren't interested in fans. They want to get loaded with money coming from 'the masses'.
If they are so interested in sales & profits then The Cosmos Rocks' low sales must've been a bigger shock than we all believed. Maybe that's the main reason of this release? you know... Queen/QPL love to play safe: "Bad sales alert!. Put the singles in a fancy box and re-issue them at once!"
And well, the archivist has officially spoken... Queen/QPL aren't interested in fans. They want to get loaded with money coming from 'the masses'.
If they are so interested in sales & profits then The Cosmos Rocks' low sales must've been a bigger shock than we all believed. Maybe that's the main reason of this release? you know... Queen/QPL love to play safe: "Bad sales alert!. Put the singles in a fancy box and re-issue them at once!"
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
GB: Apart from rehashing your previous hype - I see nothing new in your arguments.
This product is a [b]disaster[/b] - and we all [b]know[/b] it.
QPL are beginning to sound remarkably like the Disney execs who believed 'Pearl Harbour' would be the solution to all their financial problems. Unfortunately, 'Pearl Harbour' turned out to be a huge turkey, lost millions of investment dollars - and guess what - it was the execs who were sacked - not the public who were castigated. Since then, Disney have [b]not[/b] repeated this mistake, and have [b]not[/b] invested the same levels of dollars into any of their movies. It seems 'getting burnt' is a very harsh lesson to learn.
Already, this afternoon (23rd Dec 2008), [i]some [/i]'HMV' and 'Virgin' stores were punting this box-set at [b]50%[/b] discount prices - precisely because it is [b]not[/b] selling.
I am confident that after Xmas - this product will end up in even [b]bigger[/b] discount bargain bins. (Tell you what - I will post photographs of these January 'sales' for you).
My information from those [i]inside[/i] the trade - is that stores have [b]already[/b] re-packaged the singles box-set for return. Not only Queen, but [b]all[/b] major artists have hit a massive sales slump. This is a very [b]poor[/b] retail Xmas.
This country alone is now £200 million in the [b]red[/b]. That means that the credit crunch has [b]already[/b] hit everyone.
That was my point about 'Woolies' (which you seem to have missed) - at one time one of the [b]biggest[/b] selling singles retail outlets in the UK - but sadly - they exist no more.
Now many smaller CD outlets ('Our Pice' for example) and even some of the medium-sized 'HMV' and 'Virgin' Stores still face [b]closure[/b] because physical sales are now at an all time low - and are destined [b]never[/b] to pick up.
(Now that is not only my opinion but the very reason both Sir Alan Sugar and 'Dragon's Den' Theo Paphitis refused to throw 'Woolworths' a 'lifeline').
(I have no crystal ball - but like those 'experts' - I am willing to wager quite a few retail outlets will also hit the wall in 2009).
How Queen think they [b]alone[/b] can buck these world-wide trends - is beyond me, but as you say, I am no business man.
But one does not need to be a rocket scientist to see that both the market-place, and the world, has moved on, since those record collecting halcyon days, and that this sort of singles box-set no longer cuts the mustard.
Yes: I do believe that CD singles and even the CD itself will be a dead format in 10 years time.
Even now internet downloads [b]vastly[/b] outsells physical product.
Most people are interested in iTunes, iPhones, iPods or whatever.
Physical 'ownership' has taken upon itself a whole new vocabulary and set of rules.
Gone now are the days of simple 'restamping', and for QPL to ignor this message is a bit like King Cnut trying to hold back the tide.
Again, I concede to very little business acmen - but we are now entering a brave new world of new capitalism and ownership - something which QPL can only ignore at their peril.
This product is a [b]disaster[/b] - and we all [b]know[/b] it.
QPL are beginning to sound remarkably like the Disney execs who believed 'Pearl Harbour' would be the solution to all their financial problems. Unfortunately, 'Pearl Harbour' turned out to be a huge turkey, lost millions of investment dollars - and guess what - it was the execs who were sacked - not the public who were castigated. Since then, Disney have [b]not[/b] repeated this mistake, and have [b]not[/b] invested the same levels of dollars into any of their movies. It seems 'getting burnt' is a very harsh lesson to learn.
Already, this afternoon (23rd Dec 2008), [i]some [/i]'HMV' and 'Virgin' stores were punting this box-set at [b]50%[/b] discount prices - precisely because it is [b]not[/b] selling.
I am confident that after Xmas - this product will end up in even [b]bigger[/b] discount bargain bins. (Tell you what - I will post photographs of these January 'sales' for you).
My information from those [i]inside[/i] the trade - is that stores have [b]already[/b] re-packaged the singles box-set for return. Not only Queen, but [b]all[/b] major artists have hit a massive sales slump. This is a very [b]poor[/b] retail Xmas.
This country alone is now £200 million in the [b]red[/b]. That means that the credit crunch has [b]already[/b] hit everyone.
That was my point about 'Woolies' (which you seem to have missed) - at one time one of the [b]biggest[/b] selling singles retail outlets in the UK - but sadly - they exist no more.
Now many smaller CD outlets ('Our Pice' for example) and even some of the medium-sized 'HMV' and 'Virgin' Stores still face [b]closure[/b] because physical sales are now at an all time low - and are destined [b]never[/b] to pick up.
(Now that is not only my opinion but the very reason both Sir Alan Sugar and 'Dragon's Den' Theo Paphitis refused to throw 'Woolworths' a 'lifeline').
(I have no crystal ball - but like those 'experts' - I am willing to wager quite a few retail outlets will also hit the wall in 2009).
How Queen think they [b]alone[/b] can buck these world-wide trends - is beyond me, but as you say, I am no business man.
But one does not need to be a rocket scientist to see that both the market-place, and the world, has moved on, since those record collecting halcyon days, and that this sort of singles box-set no longer cuts the mustard.
Yes: I do believe that CD singles and even the CD itself will be a dead format in 10 years time.
Even now internet downloads [b]vastly[/b] outsells physical product.
Most people are interested in iTunes, iPhones, iPods or whatever.
Physical 'ownership' has taken upon itself a whole new vocabulary and set of rules.
Gone now are the days of simple 'restamping', and for QPL to ignor this message is a bit like King Cnut trying to hold back the tide.
Again, I concede to very little business acmen - but we are now entering a brave new world of new capitalism and ownership - something which QPL can only ignore at their peril.
[QUOTE]
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I could not have said this better myself - and this is [b]exactly[/b] the reason why the singles box-set (is) and will be confirmed to be the Xmas turkey we all know it to be.
Low sales (to the masses) - and I defy GB to demonstrate differently.
Business is about selling - so no selling = no business!
Simple economics really.
This product is [b]not[/b] selling - and I for one [b]refuse[/b] to buy - along with many others.
What happens to JB's Xmas bonus this year Greg?
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I could not have said this better myself - and this is [b]exactly[/b] the reason why the singles box-set (is) and will be confirmed to be the Xmas turkey we all know it to be.
Low sales (to the masses) - and I defy GB to demonstrate differently.
Business is about selling - so no selling = no business!
Simple economics really.
This product is [b]not[/b] selling - and I for one [b]refuse[/b] to buy - along with many others.
What happens to JB's Xmas bonus this year Greg?
[QUOTE]
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I am shocked more than surprised just with the use of the term "masses" so... not sure what's the word to describe my thoughts without sounding a bit disrespectful.
Of course I (and many others) know that it's pure business and it shouldn't be different, and this is what we are a bit upset I guess - it's too much business. What else record companies have to do in their business than sell their products - recordings? It's obvious. What still "surprises" some is how they (as in QPL) keep using the same techniques for almost 30 years (considering the GH1 release). And how people still fall in their traps.
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I am shocked more than surprised just with the use of the term "masses" so... not sure what's the word to describe my thoughts without sounding a bit disrespectful.
Of course I (and many others) know that it's pure business and it shouldn't be different, and this is what we are a bit upset I guess - it's too much business. What else record companies have to do in their business than sell their products - recordings? It's obvious. What still "surprises" some is how they (as in QPL) keep using the same techniques for almost 30 years (considering the GH1 release). And how people still fall in their traps.
Continuing...
Unfortunately, this happens not only at QPL, but in other fronts as well. KISS (them again!) released some boxset some years ago that was half filled with regular album tracks - not singles, but just tracks that "fans like the most" I suppose. Sure, there were some rarities in there, but half of it was stuff that was released in the albums.
I'm sure every band or artist's label have these "Xmas bonuses" stored for some special occasions if they wish to get some extra cash. But some refuse to use them or at least to use them that often without giving the fans some treats inbetween. Imagine if we had a Beatles (a better product "for the masses" than Queen I suppose) compilation of #1's every year or so? Would it still sell the same after a couple releases? At the same time, people are eagerly awaiting for the Beatles catalog in digital format... and I don't doubt it will be a sales hit.
Unfortunately, this happens not only at QPL, but in other fronts as well. KISS (them again!) released some boxset some years ago that was half filled with regular album tracks - not singles, but just tracks that "fans like the most" I suppose. Sure, there were some rarities in there, but half of it was stuff that was released in the albums.
I'm sure every band or artist's label have these "Xmas bonuses" stored for some special occasions if they wish to get some extra cash. But some refuse to use them or at least to use them that often without giving the fans some treats inbetween. Imagine if we had a Beatles (a better product "for the masses" than Queen I suppose) compilation of #1's every year or so? Would it still sell the same after a couple releases? At the same time, people are eagerly awaiting for the Beatles catalog in digital format... and I don't doubt it will be a sales hit.
[QUOTE]
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I could not have said this better myself - and this is [b]exactly[/b] the reason why the singles box-set (is) and will be confirmed to be the Xmas turkey we all know it to be.
Low sales (to the masses) - and I defy GB to demonstrate differently.
Business is about selling - so no selling = no business!
Simple economics really.
This product is [b]not[/b] selling - and I for one [b]refuse[/b] to buy - along with many others.
What happens to JB's Xmas bonus this year Greg?
[/QUOTE]
Just putting some key words in [b]bold[/b] like this doesn't prove your points. As I see it, Queen Archivist is pretty much just telling it like it is, and you're whining about it when you really don't need to be. You can't satisfy the minority with every release, and we have gotten some rarities in the past already. I'm personally not sure what you want besides to try to prove something you don't know. As I see it, he says it sells well, and he's actually in the business and was behind putting this compilition out, so I take his word over yours, which is essentially just ranting with bold font on some words trying to prove something you have 0 proof of.
And it's their business, not yours. I'm lost why this is getting such a backlash. It's not your company your running and they're not looking to market to specifically the fans on a few message boards that want unreleased material. And personally again, going by what I've seen that's unreleased, it's either demos of stuff we've heard or just a couple songs that weren't a big deal to begin with). Somehow, though I will admit I don't KNOW(if I put it in bold maybe it will better help, huh? :) ), I'm guessing a WHOLE box set of unreleased material or whatever it is you want wouldn't be so interesting. Maybe some empty takes of songs(ever heard march of the black queen takes? pretty simple and not much to hear IMO), or an early version of a song, which will essentially be the song on one instrument. Turn this into a whole box set, I doubt there will be so much material to make a great seller. The Beatles have a whole catalog with tons of material that's unreleased and much more interesting from what I've seen so far, and I can understand why. So far I don't think any other band has gotten such a huge release of their behind the scenes material as the Beatles, maybe besides Jimi Hendrix, and that's because there's not such an amass of it worthy of making people spend who knows how much on a box set full of something that barely any music listeners will care for.
Of course, correct me if I'm wrong and you're not looking for an Anthology thing as opposed to rereleases of old tracks, but I don't know what else it is you're fighting for here.. It may sound cold but I think you should take Queen Archivist's words as the truth. This is for the music listeners out there, the majority. They don't need a bad business venture just for the fans on here, that isn't going to make much money. It's business....
Enough from me, I'm sure I got some bold letters a' comin.
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Marcos Napier wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY IF THE MINORITY LIKES QS1, OR BUYS IT OR NOT.
IT'S THE 'MASSES' THAT MATTERS. YOU SURELY MUST KNOW THIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm shocked. Or not. But I'm not surprised I guess.
[/QUOTE]
It's simple, cold and clinical BUSINESS, Marcos. Nothing more, nothing less.
EMI and Queen, and everyone else in music, are in the BUSINESS of selling records. It's never been any different. Don't be shocked. It will be the majority and not the minority that makes this product viable or not. There's no point in being offended or shocked, no more than you would be if an employee of WH Smiths or Waterstones suggested that the next Harry Potter book will be aimed at the masses (majority) rather than the minority (die hard fans).
You shouldn't be surprised, correct, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I could not have said this better myself - and this is [b]exactly[/b] the reason why the singles box-set (is) and will be confirmed to be the Xmas turkey we all know it to be.
Low sales (to the masses) - and I defy GB to demonstrate differently.
Business is about selling - so no selling = no business!
Simple economics really.
This product is [b]not[/b] selling - and I for one [b]refuse[/b] to buy - along with many others.
What happens to JB's Xmas bonus this year Greg?
[/QUOTE]
Just putting some key words in [b]bold[/b] like this doesn't prove your points. As I see it, Queen Archivist is pretty much just telling it like it is, and you're whining about it when you really don't need to be. You can't satisfy the minority with every release, and we have gotten some rarities in the past already. I'm personally not sure what you want besides to try to prove something you don't know. As I see it, he says it sells well, and he's actually in the business and was behind putting this compilition out, so I take his word over yours, which is essentially just ranting with bold font on some words trying to prove something you have 0 proof of.
And it's their business, not yours. I'm lost why this is getting such a backlash. It's not your company your running and they're not looking to market to specifically the fans on a few message boards that want unreleased material. And personally again, going by what I've seen that's unreleased, it's either demos of stuff we've heard or just a couple songs that weren't a big deal to begin with). Somehow, though I will admit I don't KNOW(if I put it in bold maybe it will better help, huh? :) ), I'm guessing a WHOLE box set of unreleased material or whatever it is you want wouldn't be so interesting. Maybe some empty takes of songs(ever heard march of the black queen takes? pretty simple and not much to hear IMO), or an early version of a song, which will essentially be the song on one instrument. Turn this into a whole box set, I doubt there will be so much material to make a great seller. The Beatles have a whole catalog with tons of material that's unreleased and much more interesting from what I've seen so far, and I can understand why. So far I don't think any other band has gotten such a huge release of their behind the scenes material as the Beatles, maybe besides Jimi Hendrix, and that's because there's not such an amass of it worthy of making people spend who knows how much on a box set full of something that barely any music listeners will care for.
Of course, correct me if I'm wrong and you're not looking for an Anthology thing as opposed to rereleases of old tracks, but I don't know what else it is you're fighting for here.. It may sound cold but I think you should take Queen Archivist's words as the truth. This is for the music listeners out there, the majority. They don't need a bad business venture just for the fans on here, that isn't going to make much money. It's business....
Enough from me, I'm sure I got some bold letters a' comin.
Brian?
shoemanbundy, re:
>> As I see it, he says it sells well, and he's actually in the business and was behind putting this compilition out, so I take his word over yours, which is essentially just ranting with bold font on some words trying to prove something you have 0 proof of.
But if you look at what's physically on show at HMV & Zavvi etc, you'll see the EVIDENCE which completely contradicts what GB is saying to be true. If a limited edition of 100,000 units WORLDWIDE (as pointed out by annother poster here) is already being discounted at the major High Street stores, that ought to point towards the fact that the price point is too high (at thevery least) to enable it to sell, let alone the fact that the content is crap.
Just because GB has a 'title' does not mean that he is "actually in the business". He's being fed spin by QPL on what rate THEY say the set is selling at. But it's highly unlikely they will provide him with definitive NUMBERS to prove what they are telling him.
>> As I see it, he says it sells well, and he's actually in the business and was behind putting this compilition out, so I take his word over yours, which is essentially just ranting with bold font on some words trying to prove something you have 0 proof of.
But if you look at what's physically on show at HMV & Zavvi etc, you'll see the EVIDENCE which completely contradicts what GB is saying to be true. If a limited edition of 100,000 units WORLDWIDE (as pointed out by annother poster here) is already being discounted at the major High Street stores, that ought to point towards the fact that the price point is too high (at thevery least) to enable it to sell, let alone the fact that the content is crap.
Just because GB has a 'title' does not mean that he is "actually in the business". He's being fed spin by QPL on what rate THEY say the set is selling at. But it's highly unlikely they will provide him with definitive NUMBERS to prove what they are telling him.