[QUOTE]
[b]Queen Archivist wrote: [/b]
You lot are a load of Devils.
Box 1 is only just out and you're debating whether 2, 3 and 4 will be axed. It could only happen on QZ.
[/QUOTE]
So why begin a new thread to refute the point?
Thread
Posts in chronological order
On the subject of box sets whatever happened to the Crown Jewels Part 2 box, the first part being released in the usa.
I don't want Rocks vol.2 or GVH 3 or QS 2,3,4 for that matter. Bring us Queen Dance Traxx II as promised 12 years ago!!!
@QA/GB, No, not only on QZ-- other bands pulling subsequent volumes have previously been mentioned. Still eager, though, to find out where the spoken word bit from BBC WWRY comes from...could that show up in a booklet, perhaps? maybe a sticker on the shrinkwrap?
[QUOTE]
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b]
Sorry to say [b]"I told you so",[/b] but:[b] "I told you so!"[/b]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/3933359/Zavvi-administration-threatens-3400-jobs.html
It was also stated on the BBC radio news that another [b]fifteen[/b] major high street stores face administration in the new year.
I think that means - game, set and match to me?[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm honestly a bit lost what your point is here. That's a retail chain that went out of business, and I doubt they started going downhill because this Queen set isn't selling. What is your point with them, how does it relate to sales of the Queen set? If you want to say to everyone "I told you so", you should bring in some actual sales figures so we can work with some real evidence relating to this matter, not a retail chain that's going in the dumps because of this obvious economic recession that's going on right now.
I just want to make clear I'm not passionate here about this topic and am not particularly on any sides here, I'm more just trying to figure out what is being fought here as I'm not sure what exactly has been done wrong here with releasing this set.
And I will point out that Queen Archivist does come off as a dick with his making his responses more clear by making sure it's all in caps. I'd find it hard to believe anyone can read anything in all caps without the voice in your head SCREAMING it as if you were on a rampage. That's how it is for me anyway :p
And FYI, I didn't buy this set and don't intend to. I'd rather stick to original LPs than buy anything new. Not even past CD releases. :)
[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b]
Sorry to say [b]"I told you so",[/b] but:[b] "I told you so!"[/b]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/3933359/Zavvi-administration-threatens-3400-jobs.html
It was also stated on the BBC radio news that another [b]fifteen[/b] major high street stores face administration in the new year.
I think that means - game, set and match to me?[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm honestly a bit lost what your point is here. That's a retail chain that went out of business, and I doubt they started going downhill because this Queen set isn't selling. What is your point with them, how does it relate to sales of the Queen set? If you want to say to everyone "I told you so", you should bring in some actual sales figures so we can work with some real evidence relating to this matter, not a retail chain that's going in the dumps because of this obvious economic recession that's going on right now.
I just want to make clear I'm not passionate here about this topic and am not particularly on any sides here, I'm more just trying to figure out what is being fought here as I'm not sure what exactly has been done wrong here with releasing this set.
And I will point out that Queen Archivist does come off as a dick with his making his responses more clear by making sure it's all in caps. I'd find it hard to believe anyone can read anything in all caps without the voice in your head SCREAMING it as if you were on a rampage. That's how it is for me anyway :p
And FYI, I didn't buy this set and don't intend to. I'd rather stick to original LPs than buy anything new. Not even past CD releases. :)
[b]shoemanbundy[/b]: Another very reasonable post - which deserves a reasonable answer.
(Please note that I try to respect my 'audience' - as GB puts it - so I at least attempt to give creditable answers).
Sorry if my posts can appear oblique at times - but I try to cram as much info into as little space as possible so the reader does not have to wade through pages of text. I accept in doing so I may skip past some points. So in essence - here is my (pre)/argument.
The economy constantly changes.
For example, between c5 BC - c1914 the blacksmith was king. Every village had it's own blacksmith. From sharpening knives and swords, wrought-iron work to (especially) working with horses, blacksmith's (although not unionised) were a giant staple on a global scale.
What killed the blacksmith was not the economic downturn of the 1930's, but the mechanisation of WW1 - and the loss of horse-power as a major technological power.
Flash forward to today: The reason 'MVC', 'Woolworths' and 'Virgin Mega Stores' have all gone bankrupt is not because of the credit crunch in itself - but because they are losing customers hand over fist - because the way we listen to music has changed. The internet has changed all that.
Now customers are more likely to download than purchase. Music has been truely liberated, in that the relationship between the huge corporations and the customer have changed. No longer do I need to buy albums. No longer do I have to queue for material which runs out of stock. Technology has democratised customer dynamics on a scale and fashion never imagined before. Therefore, the writing has been on the wall for these retailers for the past two or three years - but rather than adapt - they died.
So who is next? 'Blockbusters', 'Tower Records', 'HMV' - even the mighty EMI (the 'Queen' mother if you will) faces bancrupty - if not hostile take-over. The days of the dinosaur dynasties are over.
Now, against that backdrop - coupled with a credit crunch and a more environmentally friendly aware society - what do QPL decide?
"Let's release another needless and pointless boxset - for the 'masses!".
This boxset was a bastard conceived in an ivory tower - doomed for failure before birth.
It was always going to be an uphill struggle to break even.
That is how out of touch the Queen ludites are with both their market and audience.
It's not rocket science really, just unbridled sycophancy reaping its rewards.
(Please note that I try to respect my 'audience' - as GB puts it - so I at least attempt to give creditable answers).
Sorry if my posts can appear oblique at times - but I try to cram as much info into as little space as possible so the reader does not have to wade through pages of text. I accept in doing so I may skip past some points. So in essence - here is my (pre)/argument.
The economy constantly changes.
For example, between c5 BC - c1914 the blacksmith was king. Every village had it's own blacksmith. From sharpening knives and swords, wrought-iron work to (especially) working with horses, blacksmith's (although not unionised) were a giant staple on a global scale.
What killed the blacksmith was not the economic downturn of the 1930's, but the mechanisation of WW1 - and the loss of horse-power as a major technological power.
Flash forward to today: The reason 'MVC', 'Woolworths' and 'Virgin Mega Stores' have all gone bankrupt is not because of the credit crunch in itself - but because they are losing customers hand over fist - because the way we listen to music has changed. The internet has changed all that.
Now customers are more likely to download than purchase. Music has been truely liberated, in that the relationship between the huge corporations and the customer have changed. No longer do I need to buy albums. No longer do I have to queue for material which runs out of stock. Technology has democratised customer dynamics on a scale and fashion never imagined before. Therefore, the writing has been on the wall for these retailers for the past two or three years - but rather than adapt - they died.
So who is next? 'Blockbusters', 'Tower Records', 'HMV' - even the mighty EMI (the 'Queen' mother if you will) faces bancrupty - if not hostile take-over. The days of the dinosaur dynasties are over.
Now, against that backdrop - coupled with a credit crunch and a more environmentally friendly aware society - what do QPL decide?
"Let's release another needless and pointless boxset - for the 'masses!".
This boxset was a bastard conceived in an ivory tower - doomed for failure before birth.
It was always going to be an uphill struggle to break even.
That is how out of touch the Queen ludites are with both their market and audience.
It's not rocket science really, just unbridled sycophancy reaping its rewards.
It's pretty clear that Queen don't care much for their fanbase. For instance, they don't turn up to conventions, they treat the fan club as an annoyance, and it's apparently hard work even to get a signature from them for the magazine. They are also content to re-release the same old stuff year after year rather than make even the tiniest effort to release something 'from the vaults'. They have also surrounded themselves with sycophants --- which would be fine if they were talented sychopants, but they're not. They have amateurs working for them at almost every level. Not only that, these amateurs appear to have a collective chip on their shoulder. There are fans here who are better art designers, better researchers, better restorers, better sound engineers and -- frankly -- nicer people than the professional idiots that Queen hire. So that leaves Roger and Brian in a very bad position: too arrogant and lazy to provide anything relevant, new or interesting, and too protected by untalented hangers-on for anything to change from within the organisation. All of which was fine until this point, because fans have pretty much had to lump it due to lack of choice/input. But now, as JSS & Benn have pointed out, the consumer is king and Queen Productions will notice that very soon when their profits begin to fall (if they haven't already). I predict new releases from the vault next year, and Brian & Roger suddenly finding they have the time to 'meet the fans' more often as they realise that profits have plummeted and the cash cow has moved on.
I, for one, am looking forward to 2009.
I, for one, am looking forward to 2009.
Jim Beach will have to retire and Queen get a new manger with a 21st century attitude before QP starts putting out quality product on a consistent basis.
Dear Greg, just a simple question after reading all your words:
Most of people will be buying the same stuff for decades, OK, so... can we now say hardcore fans do not matter at all?
If so, I just need to know it so I can forget the dream of a Box Set.
And then I will live aware of We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions being released in another 100 new amazing formats is the only kind of product this world will hear from the best band of the planet.
Thanks in advance for your time, your answer and good work in things like the FM Box Set.
Most of people will be buying the same stuff for decades, OK, so... can we now say hardcore fans do not matter at all?
If so, I just need to know it so I can forget the dream of a Box Set.
And then I will live aware of We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions being released in another 100 new amazing formats is the only kind of product this world will hear from the best band of the planet.
Thanks in advance for your time, your answer and good work in things like the FM Box Set.
7 points:
1. NOTHING today sounds anywhere near the 20 years back and further days of rock except for the occasional return of a Guns N' Roses, an AC/DC or some other old band that's fallen off and suddenly are making a comeback.
2. The Beatles Anthologies sets were not the best job that could be done, but they sold like crazy, brought big attention back towards the band, and had amazing success despite their limitations of technology and studio duration, two items that suggest Queen's would be far greater technically speaking.
3. I'm 35, but a lot of Queen fans are heading into their 50's and 60's. Do some of them need to die waiting and allow an earlier generation who knows GH I and II, not appreciating what an early take of The March of the Black Queen would mean to our ears. Must the Queen generation pass forward even more before our appetite is filled???
4. Out of spite, I would not pay more than 20 bucks tops for this 'Singles' set, and I'd feel guitly if I got it for 20 because I went with the greed plan of selling refurbished content already available when so much is hidden to the public and even bootleggers.
5. I'd pay $200 per album for en equal length 2nd CD of album demos, cuts previously unreleased or leaked on the net. I'd pay $300 for Queen II - The Game.
6. There is NOTHING I can comprehend that suggests waiting as a good plan once the compiling effort has been accomplished. There's no trend, no future demand, and no profitable concept providing an argument for delay. It's already WAY overdue, and the net leaks have certainly cost a lot of quality material that could have once been worth a good buck. Feel Like is incredible, Polar Bear is historically fascinating, and many others would have been no brainer spend decisions before they became free downloads for me to collect.
7. Who would not profit from this overdue anthology of Queen's being released at last?
1. NOTHING today sounds anywhere near the 20 years back and further days of rock except for the occasional return of a Guns N' Roses, an AC/DC or some other old band that's fallen off and suddenly are making a comeback.
2. The Beatles Anthologies sets were not the best job that could be done, but they sold like crazy, brought big attention back towards the band, and had amazing success despite their limitations of technology and studio duration, two items that suggest Queen's would be far greater technically speaking.
3. I'm 35, but a lot of Queen fans are heading into their 50's and 60's. Do some of them need to die waiting and allow an earlier generation who knows GH I and II, not appreciating what an early take of The March of the Black Queen would mean to our ears. Must the Queen generation pass forward even more before our appetite is filled???
4. Out of spite, I would not pay more than 20 bucks tops for this 'Singles' set, and I'd feel guitly if I got it for 20 because I went with the greed plan of selling refurbished content already available when so much is hidden to the public and even bootleggers.
5. I'd pay $200 per album for en equal length 2nd CD of album demos, cuts previously unreleased or leaked on the net. I'd pay $300 for Queen II - The Game.
6. There is NOTHING I can comprehend that suggests waiting as a good plan once the compiling effort has been accomplished. There's no trend, no future demand, and no profitable concept providing an argument for delay. It's already WAY overdue, and the net leaks have certainly cost a lot of quality material that could have once been worth a good buck. Feel Like is incredible, Polar Bear is historically fascinating, and many others would have been no brainer spend decisions before they became free downloads for me to collect.
7. Who would not profit from this overdue anthology of Queen's being released at last?
[QUOTE]
[b]CM wrote: [/b]
Dear Greg, just a simple question after reading all your words:
Most of people will be buying the same stuff for decades, OK, so... can we now say hardcore fans do not matter at all?
If so, I just need to know it so I can forget the dream of a Box Set.
And then I will live aware of We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions being released in another 100 new amazing formats is the only kind of product this world will hear from the best band of the planet.
Thanks in advance for your time, your answer and good work in things like the FM Box Set.[/QUOTE]
Hello CM
I have never suggested that long time 'die hard' fans do not matter; I have only said, and it is irrefutably true, that it is the masses that matter most in the cold clinical world of industry and finance. In the world of selling records it is obviously the majority that has the 'clout' (if you will) rather than the minority. There is no reason to be offended or upset by this. Such rules dictate most aspects of life in this type of context.
It is exactly the same principal as voting - voting in a true democracy I mean. Yes YOUR vote counts, mine does too... but only a tiny bit if it's against the main flow of popular opinion. But if you and me and 1,000 others all vote for the little man (the unlikely runner with no chance of winning in the real world), while 10,000,000 vote for the bookie's favourite (let's call him BUSH just for now), then HE will win, sickening though that prospect is for the minority, and our minority votes won't have changed that. Sad but true in the grown up world.
So....... ultimately it is the masses that make the difference, while the voices of the minority (even if there's a million of them) go pretty well unheard - amid the overwhelming decision of the collective masses.
I know that you and many others hate the fact that in the real world your/our minority views will be lost Vs that of the masses, but that still remains, as far as I know, the fairest way of things.
If you were EMI or Queen, would you pitch your 'product' as 2,000 die hard punters, or 40,000 general public music lovers???????? You know the answer to this and no doubt fully appreciate the dilemma, so why are you fighting it and being, apparently, all offended??? I don't like it either, but I see it is the fairest and most logical way of things.
[b]CM wrote: [/b]
Dear Greg, just a simple question after reading all your words:
Most of people will be buying the same stuff for decades, OK, so... can we now say hardcore fans do not matter at all?
If so, I just need to know it so I can forget the dream of a Box Set.
And then I will live aware of We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions being released in another 100 new amazing formats is the only kind of product this world will hear from the best band of the planet.
Thanks in advance for your time, your answer and good work in things like the FM Box Set.[/QUOTE]
Hello CM
I have never suggested that long time 'die hard' fans do not matter; I have only said, and it is irrefutably true, that it is the masses that matter most in the cold clinical world of industry and finance. In the world of selling records it is obviously the majority that has the 'clout' (if you will) rather than the minority. There is no reason to be offended or upset by this. Such rules dictate most aspects of life in this type of context.
It is exactly the same principal as voting - voting in a true democracy I mean. Yes YOUR vote counts, mine does too... but only a tiny bit if it's against the main flow of popular opinion. But if you and me and 1,000 others all vote for the little man (the unlikely runner with no chance of winning in the real world), while 10,000,000 vote for the bookie's favourite (let's call him BUSH just for now), then HE will win, sickening though that prospect is for the minority, and our minority votes won't have changed that. Sad but true in the grown up world.
So....... ultimately it is the masses that make the difference, while the voices of the minority (even if there's a million of them) go pretty well unheard - amid the overwhelming decision of the collective masses.
I know that you and many others hate the fact that in the real world your/our minority views will be lost Vs that of the masses, but that still remains, as far as I know, the fairest way of things.
If you were EMI or Queen, would you pitch your 'product' as 2,000 die hard punters, or 40,000 general public music lovers???????? You know the answer to this and no doubt fully appreciate the dilemma, so why are you fighting it and being, apparently, all offended??? I don't like it either, but I see it is the fairest and most logical way of things.
Complete nonsense. In the music industry you can cater to both sets of fans. I've been given the Ozzy Osborne box 'Prince of Darkness' for Xmas. It has stuff that caters to both the casual fan but also demos and covers that would attract more dedicated fans. Rush do this, Zepelin do this, The Who do this, Pearl Jam do this, and so on. Among big rock bands Queen are probably the exception to the rule in releasing ONLY their big hits with no rarities, demos, alternate takes etc. that would attract dedicated fans too.
I see GB has decided to slope off again without addressing any of the points raised here. Same shit, different day.
[QUOTE]
[b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b]
Complete nonsense. In the music industry you can cater to both sets of fans. I've been given the Ozzy Osborne box 'Prince of Darkness' for Xmas. It has stuff that caters to both the casual fan but also demos and covers that would attract more dedicated fans. Rush do this, Zepelin do this, The Who do this, Pearl Jam do this, and so on. Among big rock bands Queen are probably the exception to the rule in releasing ONLY their big hits with no rarities, demos, alternate takes etc. that would attract dedicated fans too. [/QUOTE]
While this, a band that is very know to like the masses's money - KISS - releases a boxset with half or more of studio tracks with a few demos. Because they know that masses are stupid.
What about the "bonus tracks" of these remastered cds? What are for God's sake these remixes? Remixes are for dance tracks, not for rock'n'roll. Even the masses didn't like these, I suppose. At least they didn't remix BoRhap (and the possibilities are countless considering the 24-tracks).
What JSS said is exactly the result of Greg's view: the companies are getting out of the business and are falling down like dead flies just because they don't know how to do their business anymore. Which company (of the music business) probably has/had (who knows who owns their catalogue anymore) the most sellable merchandise (aka Beatles)? EMI. And look how bad they are nowadays.
[b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b]
Complete nonsense. In the music industry you can cater to both sets of fans. I've been given the Ozzy Osborne box 'Prince of Darkness' for Xmas. It has stuff that caters to both the casual fan but also demos and covers that would attract more dedicated fans. Rush do this, Zepelin do this, The Who do this, Pearl Jam do this, and so on. Among big rock bands Queen are probably the exception to the rule in releasing ONLY their big hits with no rarities, demos, alternate takes etc. that would attract dedicated fans too. [/QUOTE]
While this, a band that is very know to like the masses's money - KISS - releases a boxset with half or more of studio tracks with a few demos. Because they know that masses are stupid.
What about the "bonus tracks" of these remastered cds? What are for God's sake these remixes? Remixes are for dance tracks, not for rock'n'roll. Even the masses didn't like these, I suppose. At least they didn't remix BoRhap (and the possibilities are countless considering the 24-tracks).
What JSS said is exactly the result of Greg's view: the companies are getting out of the business and are falling down like dead flies just because they don't know how to do their business anymore. Which company (of the music business) probably has/had (who knows who owns their catalogue anymore) the most sellable merchandise (aka Beatles)? EMI. And look how bad they are nowadays.
Greg, thanks for your answer.
I think you are right, and people should understand you would love a box set of rarities as much as we do.
I agree, big sales can only be based on the old stuff. That is nobody's fault.
I dont see you as an enemy against our opinions but just as someone placed in the middle of both sides.
Im glad there are compilations and old stuff released again and again to keep the name of Queen alive, but I live waiting the day we can buy something really new.
I wonder how other bands have got some rare stuff released and Queen can not yet, but the answer is beyond me. You work for them and you know the real situation much better than many of us. That is why I respect your opinions and simply keep my fingers crossed until the day you got some good news for this harcore fans community.
All the best.
CM
I think you are right, and people should understand you would love a box set of rarities as much as we do.
I agree, big sales can only be based on the old stuff. That is nobody's fault.
I dont see you as an enemy against our opinions but just as someone placed in the middle of both sides.
Im glad there are compilations and old stuff released again and again to keep the name of Queen alive, but I live waiting the day we can buy something really new.
I wonder how other bands have got some rare stuff released and Queen can not yet, but the answer is beyond me. You work for them and you know the real situation much better than many of us. That is why I respect your opinions and simply keep my fingers crossed until the day you got some good news for this harcore fans community.
All the best.
CM