Queen "Elite!".

[QUOTE]

[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b] I repect your choice to disbelieve - but you would need to be in it to understand it.
Perhaps repositioning your thinking may be another way to look at it. You may not believe it anymore - but it may broaden your perspective.[/QUOTE]

Speaking about perspectives and repositioning thinking, you know what bothers me the most about the savaging of David Fuller, which is increasing looking to be completely irresponsible?  The degree to which alternative approaches and ideas are effectively suppressed in the interests of the status quo and the embedded power structures.  It doesn't even have to have to happen at a level of conscious awareness, but happen it does in places like science and academia with unknowable effects on the sum of human knowledge and endeavour.   I've learned now that it happens in music collecting too.  The truth is that if every collector woke up tomorrow morning and decided to be David Fuller we'd arrive at exactly the same place, faster and together.  The implication is not that that would or could or should happen, but the fact that the *idea* is not even allowed to rise, pinned down by contempt from the leaders of the collecting community and the unquestionable implication that the ONLY proper response is shunning and disgust.  And people being people, you can always count on incurious and blind following from there.

The standards for music collecting seem to me to be circa best practice 1974.  It seems to me that  trading then was a labourious hand to hand affair where the philosophy and mechanics described here were a simple matter of sheer necessity.  And if substandard quality got circulated, that was a hard thing to pull back.  A  tainting of the pool redressable only very impractically.  That is not the case today.  Things can move at lightening speed and be distributed and redistributed as necessary, in a moment.  The rules and standards of collecting are rules and standards that developed in the community of the collectors, and they belong to you. They are not various subsections of an 11th commandment delivered with a pyrotechnic lit burning bush.  The process that sees the meek and weary wait for a white puff of smoke to signal the coming of 5 decade old music like 'The Reaction' stuff is your process. The collective you made that up, and as far as I can tell the collective you, like most established systems of power and having, are absolutely dug in.  I don't 'need to be 'in it to understand it', I understand it just fine.

Togg, I say "imagined status" because he clearly revels in the fact that he has access to recordings that other people do not. He lets out snippets in order to get people grovelling to find out what else he has. It's a power-trip thing that insecure people use a lot. When someone upsets the cart, as has happend here, the lid comes off. The fact that his bartering collateral is the artistic work of other people makes him a parasite.

[QUOTE]Unless you have something in writing from the originator of the music effectively giving you the rights then you do not own it.[/QUOTE]

Surely, someone here has had some sort of contact with the band themselves.  What is their "official" position on these leaked recordings?

I mean, not that it matters that we "honor" their wishes.  I'm not the law or anything.  What I'm really curious about is if they bitch and complain about this process as much as the bitched and complained about the free Napster music and such.

[QUOTE] It's a power-trip thing that insecure people use a lot.[/QUOTE]

That's not fair.  This is a fan group that meets in secrecy.  Oh wait...

It will be interesting to see if any of the recently highly publicised theft of most of Micheal Jackson's recordings by hackers which includes his work with Freddie will find it's way into collectors hands... because that is one of the highly visable accounts of theft. Enclosed in this package will be rare recordings made with Freddie that a collector will definately want in his or her collection. As this is undenyably stolen property who amoungst our Queenzone 'Elite' will turn their back on it should it surface?

"With two Worldwide tours in 2005 & 2008, there's absolutely no excuse for not recording anything."

How about copyright law?

And no I don't have anything to trade and have no interest in the stolen material offered.

[QUOTE] [b]brians wig wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]splicksplack wrote:[/b]
Togg, I say "imagined status" because he clearly revels in the fact that he has access to recordings that other people do not. He lets out snippets in order to get people grovelling to find out what else he has. It's a power-trip thing that insecure people use a lot. When someone upsets the cart, as has happend here, the lid comes off. The fact that his bartering collateral is the artistic work of other people makes him a parasite.[/QUOTE]
And sitting on a forum making comments like these and downloading everything that's offered yet giving nothing back doesn't make someone a parasite?
It's alright banging on about "power trips" and "insecure people" and getting "people grovelling", when you've obviously got fuck all to trade yourself.
Surely if someone has something you want you ought to be a little nicer to him than you are. After all, if you didn't want anything you wouldn't be here in the first place!
I also like Alice Cooper and I once had nothing to trade with a bunch of fans I found on the internet, but I got off my arse and recorded some concerts so that I DID have something to trade.
Everyone here who has been to a concert where either Brian or Roger were involved this century (just to put a date on things) have had equal opportunity to record the concert, but 99+% of you all haven't, yet we still get people who whinge and moan when those that did take the risk of recording a concert don't share it and hold it back for trade with other like minded people who did.
Sort yourselves out and if you don't have anything to trade with then you only have yourself to blame.
With two Worldwide tours in 2005 & 2008, there's absolutely no excuse for not recording anything.
I just can't believe all the negativity and abuse that the Fanthology group (and, for all intents and purposes, anyone else who has something that others want yet haven't shared) is STILL getting.
All that's happening is that people are probably starting to get pissed off. I know I am: damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It'd serve you all right if you were all told to Fuck Off and you never saw anything ever again.
Sure, what the hell, who gives a toss some of you will shout, we never expected anything from this disgusting 'secret society' anyway. Well just think on that some of what has been leaked in the last decade or more has probably come from members of this group.
John didn't have to leak his copy of the BBC sessions, but he did, and when he did that there was absolutely NO reason to believe that QPL would be releasing them themsleves at any point:as it happens there are still some tracks that are left unreleased by QPL.
I followed that thread and Pittrek had even just finished working on cleaning up John's Reel to Reel copy (the one that was hiked around the record companies) that he bought in auction of the De Lane Lea demos when it was announced they'd be coming out with the first batch of remasters last year, so don't have a go at the guy.
Yes, I know some of this is probably coming across as incoherant ramblings, but I'm just SO pissed off at the moment I'm venting steam.
My final word is simply this:
To those decent folks here, thanks for all your comments of support and understanding these last few days, it IS appreciated and to those "Leechers" who do nothing but whinge and moan and actually come across as arrogant, with 'up their own arses, better than anyone else attitudes' who are hypocritical enough to direct those very comments at 'The Elite' & 'The Hoarders' and anyone else who has 'unreleased recordings;
FUCK YOU. You people are the lowest of the low and you deserve nothing but shit and contempt. It's people like you with your attitudes that keep the traders trading rather than sharing freely.
Why SHOULD anyone share anything they spent either time, money or hard work on when all they get is shit if they do and shit if they don't.[/QUOTE]

ha ha what a load of arrogant bullshit. So it's either total support or we're all leechers, beggars, parasites etc. You couldn't make it up. You're like the guy next door who lends you his lawnmower and then insists you say thanks for it every time he sees you for years afterwards. You aren't important, the music is. I think you've forgotten that. And to be honest, the music is gettin less important as the years go by. Something else for you to mull over maybe.

[QUOTE]FUCK YOU. You people are the lowest of the low and you deserve nothing but shit and contempt. It's people like you with your attitudes that keep the traders trading rather than sharing freely.[/QUOTE]

Nah... that's not "elitist" at all.

Maybe you should quit riding John's coat-tails and step off your high horse.  It's people like YOU that keep the traders trading rather than sharing freely... and give the secret society a bad reputation now.  I'm soooo tired of the "do you know what I had to do to get this?" attitude.  It's also people like YOU that keep Queen from releasing material that they, apparently, have no control of.  As a performer, that would really piss me off.  Have you ever thought about or acknowledged that fact?

Do you know what I had to do to get to this point in my life?  No?  Well, then we're both content.  I didn't realize that you were so high & mighty, but your ramblings are a but childish and immature... like the people that you complain about.  If you would rather have your secret clubhouse, that's your call.  But the shame of it all is that all you do is continue to stir the flames when a bit a humility would go a lot further.  It's music that you had NO PART in creating anyways, yet you want to be the one who "shared" it with fans?  That's outrageous...  you, sir, have an agenda.

You have to be "Brian's Wig" so I'm not sure what your relevance in the Queen world is.  John, on the other hand, doesn't need to be anonymous.  Whatever a select few may think, he is HIGHLY regarded in this community and I have never seen that "elitist" side to him which bothers you so.  He is also HIGHLY regarded by the members of the band.   I hope you can get over this.

[QUOTE] [b]brians wig wrote:[/b]
FUCK YOU. You people are the lowest of the low and you deserve nothing but shit and contempt. It's people like you with your attitudes that keep the traders trading rather than sharing freely.
Why SHOULD anyone share anything they spent either time, money or hard work on when all they get is shit if they do and shit if they don't.[/QUOTE]

Look matey, it's alright. Some people divide the world into the tradables and the untradables. Some divide it into black & white, still others into men & women. And of course the side you're on, in this case the tradables, is vastly superior to the rest. No problems so far.

So naturally you huddle together, endeavour to become even more of a tradable, gloat at the unspeakable stupidity of the untradables and just generally enjoy your spot under the sun. And naturally, you keep veeeeery quiet about it. Can't have a sudden surge in the numbers of the tradables, now can we? That would make the tradables less tradable, and possibly shockingly bourgeois.

But what's that? Do I hear a snake hissing in the tree of tradable knowledge? Is tradable paradise about to be seriously disrupted? Unfortunately, it is. Such is human nature. You win some, you lose some, etc. My condolences and commiserations. But do you go crying to the untradables about it? The needy and greedy, the beggars, the have-nots, the rabble, the riff raff in the streets?

No, you don't. You use your own exclusive and undoubtedly watermarked stationery to send the culprit angry letters, you call your digitally earmarked lawyer and hold a seance to invoke the spirit of Freddie Mercury to hex the snake in your midst. Or you challenge your opponent to a duel, at fifty paces with a rubber Tommy water gun.

I'm sure one of these suggestions will tickle your fancy. So kindly keep your snide and arrogant posts off this board, and let the rabble enjoy their irrational interest in this group called Queen in peace. Thank you.