[b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b] You do realise that the[b] [i]"selling" of this material was actually a single throwaway[/i][/b] [b][i]message[/i][/b] which happened over six months after the arguments broke out of QZ?
[b]The Valyard wrote:[/b] [i][b]No not true. He was selling them on twitter, tumblr and on his youtube channel ages ago. i now because i payed £40 for one of his cds of exclusive traks.[/b][/i] so do not tell me it was a throwaway remark it was not.
[b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b] [i][b]Your latest post makes me wonder why the information of selling bootlegs for extortionate sums wasn't mentioned in your exhaustive report on the actions of David Fuller?[/b][/i]
[b]The Valyard wrote[/b]: [i][b]It was. i have always said he sold for money go back and reread the stuff i said before.[/b][/i] I guess you never read any of these 2 posts before then.
[b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b] Wouldn't it have been somewhat important? Perhaps it would even influence the people of QZ? [i][b]Do you have any more FIRSTHAND information you would like to share now, before it can be dismissed as merely something you're making up on the spot?[/b][/i]
[b]Yuri Queen wrote:[/b] [i][b]I bought from David[/b][/i] [b][i]only rare collaborations[/i][/b] I had not ,to complete the collection,[i][b]and Jim Hutton tape[/b][/i],for remaining track trade with others fan
[b]Inu-Luger wrote:[/b] [b][i]Valyard, thank you for indirectly backing up and vindicating what I had said all along, in that when I reported DRF for fraudulent online digital sale activity[/i][/b]
tero! 48531: Can I ask you for a couple of apologies please? The first for hinting that I was a liar and that I was making it all up on the spot (or as I went along) when I stated Fuller [b][i]was[/i][/b] selling these tracks and that it was [b][i]not[/i][/b] a throwaway line?
And second for the way you have bullied and harassed everyone else in Queenzone who would not support you or your cronies in your brown-nosing David Fuller campaign?
It is my personal belief that the truth will always out, and that is exactly what we have seen happen this last week. The whole anti-Fanthology campaign has melted like snow off a roof and has revealed that you and your [b][i]dissenting[/i][/b] (your words not mine) gang of Fuller thugs as the petty and vindictive bullying trolls you really are. And to think good people like JSS, the Real wizard and even Inu above have been hounded by the likes of you should make everyone in here really angry because this place is now all the worst for it.
Shame on you!
inu-liger · Member since
Tero, how can you even label that post as a "throwaway comment"?? Go back to the phrase dictionary and learn what that even means!
It was much more that that, and you know it. DRF was very serious about selling these uncirculated wares, and as a matter of fact I still have the very text file he linked to in his Tumblr post of the tracks he was selling (which may I remind you also included previously released official material, which again he also had no license nor authorization to digitally replicate and sell online!)
Why you or the other trio refuse to accept the gravity of the legal situation Fuller willingly put himself into is really beyond me. Really does my head in trying to figure your lot out!!
dudeofqueen · Member since
Fuller HAS made himself look like a twat and he HAS ripped people off. No doubts there.
Thing is, though, those people who believe they WERE ripped off had a choice to make; they knew what they were going to buy and, in the world of illigitimate recordings, we've all had our fingers burnt from time to time; anyone else remember buying a silver based on its title, only to find that its the BBC Session material with some audience noice between tracks?
I don't think we can complain too much about all this as, in the greater scheme of things, it was bound to happen at some stage from someone....the fact that it happens to be someone that the Fanthology members knew well just adds salt to the wound.
Maybe Fuller could have been a little smarter in getting it out there but, at the end of the day, the genuine material is great to have. Hopefully it doesn't put an end to the Fanthology boxset project as that really could be the crowning glory for this community...........
tero! 48531 · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
[b]The Valyard wrote[/b]: [i][b]It was. i have always said he sold for money go back and reread the stuff i said before.[/b][/i] I guess you never read any of these 2 posts before then. [/QUOTE]
I read these posts, and they added NOTHING new to the previous information (a mention of an ad in Tumbler, with no details) which had been already posted.
Since your messages were based on compiling messages posted by other people, I had NO reason to believe you were talking about first hand experience.
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
Can I ask you for a couple of apologies please? The first for hinting that I was a liar and that I was making it all up on the spot (or as I went along) when I stated Fuller [b][i]was[/i][/b] selling these tracks and that it was [b][i]not[/i][/b] a throwaway line? [/QUOTE]
I do apologise for calling you a liar, now that you have posted you have firsthand experience.
I will NOT apologise for you "making it up on the spot" because that was caused by your poor discussion skills, and expecting people to know things you haven't written in public.
I have personally seen only one "ad" of David, which was more like a response to the collectors' bullying, not a serious for sale -advert.
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
And second for the way you have bullied and harassed everyone else in Queenzone who would not support you or your cronies in your brown-nosing David Fuller campaign? [/QUOTE]
Pot? Kettle? Black? Ring a bell?
The traders (and now their new spokesperson) have been doing more than their fair share of bullying and harassing for a year, and most of their objections to David's actions could just as easily be said about the traders themselves.
I have no interest in David Fuller or his Queen material, so it's hard to understand where the brown-nosing would come from. Perhaps you have a personal interest in the issue which prevents you from seeing impartial opinions?
tero! 48531 · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]
Tero, how can you even label that post as a "throwaway comment"?? Go back to the phrase dictionary and learn what that even means![/QUOTE]
it sounds like nothing more than a ploy to rouse the traders... And it seems to have worked pretty well.
[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]
Why you or the other trio refuse to accept the gravity of the legal situation Fuller willingly put himself into is really beyond me. Really does my head in trying to figure your lot out!![/QUOTE]
There are actually two issues going on here, and nobody is defending David selling somebody else's material.
The problem has always been that the traders started of their campaign for personal vengeance back when David was acting just as legally as the traders themselves.
Since then the traders have been adding to and flourishing the details of the issue so much that it's become impossible to know the actual facts anymore.
tero! 48531 · Member since
The Valyard · Member since
tero! 48531 wrote:I will NOT apologise for you "making it up on the spot" because that was caused by your poor discussion skills, and expecting people to know things you haven't written in public.
Ofcoarse i have poor discusion skills becase i have already said that i suffer from dyslexia dyspraxia and OCD but that still does not negate my points or mean that i am making it up on the spot. while i do not use ms word if i type "live", i accept taht when i do use it, it makes things clearer for others and that may well be my fault. so i accept that. but it is not my fault if you approach a post with a closed mind and automatically assume that everyone is a liar just because their point of view does not match with your own.
And second for the way you have bullied and harassed everyone else in Queenzone who would not support you or your cronies in your brown-nosing David Fuller campaign? Pot? Kettle? Black? Ring a bell?
No. not for me. i have never bullied or harrased anyone in here and i expect to be treated the same way as i treat others. if you can show me where i have been rude or bullying to you or anyone else in anyway then i will appolgies to you. but in the meantime i find that is no excuse for you to be rude to me.
The traders (and now their new spokesperson) have been doing more than their fair share of bullying and harassing for a year, and most of their objections to David's actions could just as easily be said about the traders themselves.
Not by me and I am not anybodys spokesperson but my own. one side demands davids innocense and that he is innocent until proven guilty. but they do not allow that freedom to be extended to others. for example i am innocent until proven guilty to but still you adopted a stance which implied i was a liar. likewise if i was a fanthologist and i was being accused of calling david a liar i would find that oiffensive if indeed i new i was speaking the truth and not being believed because half the board want to find me guily of something - even if i am innocent. so its a double standrd.
what i mean is everyone is innocent until poofen guilty. but you cannot say wel i automatically give dadvid the right to be innocent until proven guilty and assume that the fanthology is guilty until proven innoicent but that is what has heppened in here. that is hypocrtical and to preach likewise is bulklying!
I have no interest in David Fuller or his Queen material
so why do you keep harping on about it with your mind closed. have you ever heard of occams razor. ther most likely cause is the most likely answer and i do not like how the fuller camp either have to jump mental gymnastics, distort, ignore and even deliberately manipulate the words of others to suit there own ends.
thats not justice. that is closed minded prejudice pure and simple. and if i cannot let that go than that is something i feel more proud of than ashamed.
The Valyard · Member since
The Valyard · Member since
tero! 48531 · Member since
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tero! 48531 · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
Ofcoarse i have poor discusion skills becase i have already said that i suffer from dyslexia dyspraxia and OCD but that still does not negate my points or mean that i am making it up on the spot. [/QUOTE]
I can understand you well enough, taht's not the problem.
None of those conditions really explain such an obvious omission of information, especially considering your meticulous way of quoting several posts.
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
what i mean is everyone is innocent until poofen guilty. but you cannot say wel i automatically give dadvid the right to be innocent until proven guilty and assume that the fanthology is guilty until proven innoicent but that is what has heppened in here. that is hypocrtical and to preach likewise is bulklying! [/QUOTE]
Believe it or not, I don't have a side in this argument.
My participation was originally caused by the hypocritical postings of the traders, and I'm still here because of the virtual lynching campaign still going on.
If QP already know about him, if QZ already knows about him, what's the point in continuing the argument?
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
so why do you keep harping on about it with your mind closed. have you ever heard of occams razor. ther most likely cause is the most likely answer and i do not like how the fuller camp either have to jump mental gymnastics, distort, ignore and even deliberately manipulate the words of others to suit there own ends.
thats not justice. that is closed minded prejudice pure and simple. and if i cannot let that go than that is something i feel more proud of than ashamed. [/QUOTE]
Since you've read all the topics about fanthology, you've probably noticed that neither "side" can be proud of their postings, and I'd like to leave that as the final word here.
The Valyard · Member since
[b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b] Since you've read all the topics about fanthology, you've probably noticed that neither "side" can be proud of their postings, and I'd like to leave that as the final word here.
That is a reasonable enough observation and I can agree with that.
[b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b] My participation was originally caused by the hypocritical postings of the traders,
But that is the bit I am struggling to understand. Not only with yourself but with the David Fuller support group as a whole.
This is how I see it. [b]The Fanthologists have a cause[/b]. They believe that they were creating something noble and worthwhile for the wider community, a community which Fuller himself was once part of. If we believe them, he cut and run taking much of their thunder with him. So they would naturally feel upset at his betrayal (or biting the hand that feeds him). I get that.
Then to add insult to injury some in here start lauding Fuller as some sort of Robin Hood hero and treating him like some sort of cultish guru, thus adding more fuel to the fire. To make matters even worse Fuller then turns around and spits in the face of this group by saying:
[b]David Fuller wrote:[/b] [i]So now the [b]paranoid Fanthologists are flipping out[/b] because I leaked something rare, [b]and trying to make me look bad.[/b] Enjoy the complete Reaction collection, because without me, you would have never heard it. I'm not gonna scroll through the forums and I'm not gonna scroll through this thread. I don't have the time and frankly I don't care what others think [b]if they believe the lying paranoid hoarders in the first place.[/b] And a big thanks to everyone who have messaged me their support, I appreciate you not jumping the gun and hearing both sides of the story. [b]I'll let the crazies have the last word,[/b] [b]even though they fucked up the whole Fanthology in the first place[/b]. I'll take the high road... down the highway !![/i]
Now; both GFF and Brenski make an excellent point here. GFF said a lie has run half way around the world before truth has time to tie his shoe laces, and Brenski observed that if the Fanthology do not reply, this lie [b]becomes[/b] the accepted truth over a period of time. This places the Fanthology in a lose/lose situation and they are forced to play catch up because they are always one-step behind. So they see their mission as [b]not[/b] an anti-fuller crusade but as an educational campaign of pro-fanthology damage limitation.
[b]tero! 48531 wrote[/b]: I'm still here because of the virtual lynching campaign still going on.
But this as I have tried to explain works both ways. If we accept the Fanthology argument as correct the Fanthology will claim that this cannot be a lynching because Fuller is really guilty. Rather, they see him as being somewhat justifiably named and shamed, and if what they say is indeed correct (that Fuller did cut and run, bit the hand that fed him, turns around and spits in their face and then goes on to sell the stuff he received for free - which they were planning to share for gratis all along) then why should he not be named and shamed? Those are repercussions he brought upon his own head and is no one's fault but his own. So perhaps he deserves all the justified prosecution.
Under this scenario it is the Fanthology who are being unjustifiably lynched for vocalising their protests against Fuller's deceit. Again, another lose/lose situation for them.
Some in here have tried to muddy the waters by using words such as lynching and saying that David is innocent until proven guilty, and I agree with that, but that has to cut both ways. In other words John S. Stuart et al are [b]also[/b] innocent until proven guilty, but to many of the closed minded Queenzone jurors he and others were earmarked as cheats and liars before they even stood in the dock (only on evidence as flimsy as Fullers say so) and that can not result in a fair trial. In reality David could say or do whatever he liked without providing any supportive evidence (for some reason I never got that bit either) always forcing the Fanthology to force their position, rather than Fuller having to defend his own.
The Valyard · Member since
In the end; it could be argued that it comes down to the word of two men and which is the one we are more likely to personally believe.
JSS Vs. David Fuller.
I suspect Stuart has left because he is a man of pride and principle and that he feels his good name has been sullied and dragged through the mud. He must have faith in his own good name because unlike me (and most others in here) he does not hide behind an alias, but wears his name as a badge of honour and reputation and that honour and reputation has taken quite a beating of late.
I also suspect that Fuller has left because he is [b]not[/b] a man of pride nor principle but that he has been caught out (not only by the Fanthology) but by his own actions afterward; such as selling (in your words) extortionately priced bootleg CDs the content of which he received for free and in good faith.
Everything contributed to this discussion since has either been trolling, bullying or ego in some degree, because sadly some people can only be happy when they are poking about in the misery of others, and it is that, I too would like to see stopped and see Queenzone return to a nice level playing field. Anyone now further contributing to this misery (in my mind) knows that they are being deliberately insensitive, and that by definition is bullying. So for the sake of everyone in here, can we please move on?
(PS: I have used MS word to type this, but if you look at the time stamping you will see that it has taken me almost two hours to do so. That is why I prefer to type live, even if it means that my basic writing skills are poor).
Rien · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
Everything contributed to this discussion since has either been trolling, bullying or ego in some degree, because sadly some people can only be happy when they are poking about in the misery of others, and it is that, I too would like to see stopped and see Queenzone return to a nice level playing field. So for the sake of everyone in here, can we please move on? [/QUOTE]
Good point.
This (place) could be heaven.
For everyone...
brENsKi · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]The Valyard wrote:[/b]
I too would like to see stopped and see Queenzone return to a nice level playing field. So for the sake of everyone in here, can we please move on? [/QUOTE]
well it ain't been like that (here) since about 2005 - so unless you can time-travel there's little chance
