Jesus is gay

Sorry, I know this is off topic, but hey Bob (GH), are you going to the Cleveland convention this year? Just wanted to know

"that it might take the earth by the EDGES and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"

Are you blind ? or was the first the quote the easiest one you could comment on !!
I am not asking you to stop believing in Jesus peace be upon him 'cause I believe in him but I don't believe in his Crucifixion and in him being the SON of GOD and in the bible the book that is full man-made corruptions and alterations.

"Do you still think GOD said all of this ?

Yes I do. You must have a better argument than that. Good grief! The 4 corners of the earth. Hmmm. Let me think here. How about 1.North 2.South 3.East 4.West.
Have you never heard of a 'figure of speech'?
Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."


Of course the bible has figures of speech and I agree with Zeni in that not all what's written there is useless today because of scientific mistakes, but I think the four-corners-story and all the astronomic claims are NOT figures of speech, they simply mirror the state of science in those days. To say all the mistakes are figures of speech is only trying to hide that a lot of the content is ridiculous today, which makes a lot of the really important parts of the book (e.g. resurrection) also doubtful. Or do you say that's also just a "figure of speech"?
And Guitar Hero did not say that everything in the holy book is complete bullshit, he was just reaction to the fundamentalism in Lucy's first post (that he believes every word of it).

"Sorry, I know this is off topic, but hey Bob (GH), are you going to the Cleveland convention this year? Just wanted to know"

Hey Rich... I'm tackling between going to Cleveland and seeing Brian in Texas. Unless Brian is coming to a US convention for the first time, I think I know which city is going to win!

"which makes a lot of the really important parts of the book (e.g. resurrection) also doubtful. Or do you say that's also just a "figure of speech"?"

Actually, many scholars (and many common people, I'm sure) are calling the resurrection something you can relate to in your personal resurrection through crisis. That makes the most sense to me. It's something completely possible, for any person.

Thanks Hank and Zeni for your support. I honestly don't seek support in these types of discussions, but of course it's always welcome. :)

Here are a few things I didn't entirely get to before, or were ignored to some extent:

"The devil, Satan, Lucifer, was cast from Heaven durring Creation. So yes he was on earth from the beginning of time. Long before the Church 'made him up'."

The church has an answer for everything, doesn't it? If the devil was cast out from heaven during creation, then why wasn't he mentioned until about 200 CE? I'm sure the faithful Christian reply would be something like, "God said so, because it's in the bible". Face it, there is no logical explanation. The devil was created as an antithesis to God because it was seen to be a perfect way to control people's fears.

I thought I'd post this one again:

"You believe the NT scripture in which Jesus supposedly quotes OT. However, you do not note that virtually everyone born into the peasant class (which was about 90% of the ancient world's population) in his time were illiterate, and had no means of education. Being as Jesus was a member of this class (Joseph was a carpenter for crying out loud), he was most likely no exception."

In contrast to what you said above, this is very far from dumb. It's the truth about society in NT times. Most people with level heads see Jesus as the regular person he was, and therefore don't remove him from the society he lived in, as it would be completely illogical to do so.

"You believe God has the right to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you, as stated in Numbers 25. Therefore, you support terrorism."

You ignored the context itself. Read the passage, and note that it is to be directly taken as God taking sides, choosing to kill one group of people. As I said above, this proves that any fundamentalist who is aware of this passage (and literate enough to understand it) is therefore pro-terrorist.

"Is there a difference between raped, and 'brutally' raped? Is it the childs fault?"

I replied to this one earlier, and you ignored it. Come on, can you honestly say you're denying a woman's right to the control over her own body? It would be smart to concede now. If not, then one day if your wife gets raped and knocked up, it will be interesting to see what you guys would choose to do with her bundle of joy.

Some people may see me as loving argument, but I'm just someone who doesn't like to leave things unfinished. As long as straight-ahead and logical answers can be provided, there is no reason for this to become an argument, anyway. :)

"Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."

Just as an honest pointer: Watch when you say things like this. People may not entertain your opinions whole-heartedly as they once did, because you're resorting to attacking the person and not the problem.

Please people think twice before posting possible offensive sentences on the noticeboard!


There's no excuse for getting attention in this way

i understand the offended people.You have my sympathy

"God wasn't happy with the way the 'Children of Israel' were behaving (idols and so on) so He had certian leaders taken care of. And no I am not a supporter of terrorism. These things happened when the Old Law was being enforced. It must have been a brutal time. I don't have any creative answers for that."

Hey, I didn't say you had to have the answers :P

And I'm certainly not saying you support terrorism. But I just thought you should now note that you have admitted to not believing every word of the bible, many times in this topic, although you initially said you did. A fundamentalist believes every word of the bible, and clearly you've spoken otherwise. Like someone said before in the topic, they definitely need more Christians like you... Sticking with your beliefs, while not swallowing everything the church has to offer.

I have to say reading this thread was pretty... nice... For the first time ppl involved in it, on both sides knew what they were talking about, respected each other and...
Well, whatever, after reading the whole thing I feel I've learned some stuff, it made me think... Lucy, you restored my faith in Catholic people- for some time lost it completely (being Polish I'm surrounded by them, and most of them are pretty dumb...). Nice to listen to someone reasonable...

Not exactly sure where this fits in, as there has been so much written, but I think GH asked about it at one point:

The New Testament is supposed to represent God's new Covenant with the children of Israel, replacing (to at least some extent, if not all) the Old Testament and the old covenant. Thus, Jesus' teachings to "Turn the Other Cheek" replaces the "Eye for an Eye" belief. Under that, the writings of the New Testament would replace Numbers 25 as GH alludes to, and, I imagine, great portions of Levitical Law.

wow, all this shit started b/c of me (partially at least) and my rants! cool! Im a rant starter

"Under that, the writings of the New Testament would replace Numbers 25 as GH alludes to, and, I imagine, great portions of Levitical Law."

In theory, you would seem to be right. But what I don't understand is, if they're fundamentalists and therefore know and believe in the bible cover to cover, why does every one of them miss the (simply put) NT overtaking the OT?

Rhetorical question, but anyone is welcome to take a stab at it!

Yikes people, how does all of this relate to Queen? Isn't this a Queen message board? Debating religion and politics serves no purpose here but to piss people off.

One of the main canons of the Christian dogma is to await the Second Coming of Christ.

Taking this into consideration, it is why (I believe)fundamentalist Christians have the need to believe in every word (although the Catholic Church has said that the 'word' shouldn't be taken literally) as it is. Therefore, if you follow what Christ "said" in the NT word for word, there is a good chance they will reign with Christ when he comes back to judge the living and the dead for his millenium of heaven on Earth.

This can be disputed, of course, depending to which Christian denomination you belong to.

In the OT, according to Christianity, the promise of the Messiah has already been fulfilled. Therefore, most of them ignore it, except the 'The 10 commandments'.

However, I've seen most Christian denominations (esp. evangelicals) use the OT as more of a tie to the NT book of Revelations. The tie of of prophecy. Supposedly, and I find this interesting, that the book of Daniel and Isaiah (this one I'm not so sure, correct me if I'm wrong) does have a more of an apocalyptic tie to the NT rather than the traditional messianic message of promise of a God's kingdom on Earth.

With this, I go back to what I said in the beginning. The need of saving your soul is to believe the NT, esp the epistles (which is a 'How to Be a Christian Handbook') word for word. The fear of suffering eternal damnation is surely a threat, according to fundamentalist Christians. The injection of fear of Hell is the reason for these religious fanatics need to follow word for word what Jesus said to join him in eternal life, whatever historically accurate or inaccurate The Bible might be.

"Rhetorical question, but anyone is welcome to take a stab at it!"

It's a slippery slope. At what point do you completely disregard the OT and replace it with the NT? Some portions may seem out of date with the NT (Eating of Pork, for instance), yet other parts closely tie into the coming Messiah and serve to set the stage for the divine right of Jesus (ie portions of Isiah). Some try to rationalize and explain the differences, others avoid it altogether

Let's remember that Relgion does not happen in a vacuum; normal, everyday, sane people are also religious people. And normal, everyday, sane people make mistakes just like the rest of us. It's important that just because one nutter espouses some stange Christian doctrine that we don't right it off altogether.


"Yikes people, how does all of this relate to Queen? Isn't this a Queen message board?"

Yes, but just because we are Queen fans does not mean we revoke all right to intelligent thought. If you cannot handle religious debate, don't read the thread.

MsMercury,

This is the personal section of the board.

In here, you can discuss whatever you may like.

The Bible is a collection of books, right?

How historically accurate these books are (except the Psalms, Revelations, and Song of Songs)? We don't know. When were they written? We don't know.

Perhaps we should ask the Jewish historian Jocifus (sp?) on this.

It's all about faith. I have my doubts. However, if it makes some people fell better. Good for them.