"Do you mean F. Mercury is Jesus.....???"
I'm not going to add any comment to this stupidity!
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"I'm not going to add any comment to this stupidity!"
You just did it, my dear:)
I bet, jorge, you dont understand fatty's jokes or absurdities too
You just did it, my dear:)
I bet, jorge, you dont understand fatty's jokes or absurdities too
I once again found Guitar Hero very convincing (not that I needed to be convinced) on this subject, while I had the impression that someone else was happy to get off cheaply although his arguments and assertion of having the same expertise were completely torn to shreds.
"B. The Bible is the infallable Word of God. I believe every word in it."
When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has the dumbest claims, with all due respect to Christians. The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
Do you still think GOD said all of this ?
When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has the dumbest claims, with all due respect to Christians. The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
Do you still think GOD said all of this ?
Here's something that bothers me: Critics tend to attack the Bible for its scientific impossibilities, believing that something can only be true if science can prove it to be. And since there are so many scientific innaccuracies in the Bible, the whole thing must be false (or at least completely overblown in its importance).
But there are literally thousands of things in life, many that we encounter or experience everyday, that science cannot fully define or explain.
Yes, there are literal mistakes in the Bible. The Earth does not have four corners. But can we not glean some sort of existential truth from the Bible? Much of GH's argument does have its merits, but to completely disregard the Bible because it does not hold-up to 21st Century science is borderline short-sightedness.
(and no, I'm not accusing GH of doing that, just making a point)
But there are literally thousands of things in life, many that we encounter or experience everyday, that science cannot fully define or explain.
Yes, there are literal mistakes in the Bible. The Earth does not have four corners. But can we not glean some sort of existential truth from the Bible? Much of GH's argument does have its merits, but to completely disregard the Bible because it does not hold-up to 21st Century science is borderline short-sightedness.
(and no, I'm not accusing GH of doing that, just making a point)
"B. The Bible is the infallable Word of God. I believe every word in it."
When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has the dumbest claims, with all due respect to Christians. The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
Do you still think GOD said all of this ?
Yes I do. You must have a better argument than that. Good grief! The 4 corners of the earth. Hmmm. Let me think here. How about 1.North 2.South 3.East 4.West.
Have you never heard of a 'figure of speech'?
Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain.
When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has the dumbest claims, with all due respect to Christians. The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
Do you still think GOD said all of this ?
Yes I do. You must have a better argument than that. Good grief! The 4 corners of the earth. Hmmm. Let me think here. How about 1.North 2.South 3.East 4.West.
Have you never heard of a 'figure of speech'?
Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain.
Sorry, I know this is off topic, but hey Bob (GH), are you going to the Cleveland convention this year? Just wanted to know
"that it might take the earth by the EDGES and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
Are you blind ? or was the first the quote the easiest one you could comment on !!
I am not asking you to stop believing in Jesus peace be upon him 'cause I believe in him but I don't believe in his Crucifixion and in him being the SON of GOD and in the bible the book that is full man-made corruptions and alterations.
Are you blind ? or was the first the quote the easiest one you could comment on !!
I am not asking you to stop believing in Jesus peace be upon him 'cause I believe in him but I don't believe in his Crucifixion and in him being the SON of GOD and in the bible the book that is full man-made corruptions and alterations.
"Do you still think GOD said all of this ?
Yes I do. You must have a better argument than that. Good grief! The 4 corners of the earth. Hmmm. Let me think here. How about 1.North 2.South 3.East 4.West.
Have you never heard of a 'figure of speech'?
Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."
Of course the bible has figures of speech and I agree with Zeni in that not all what's written there is useless today because of scientific mistakes, but I think the four-corners-story and all the astronomic claims are NOT figures of speech, they simply mirror the state of science in those days. To say all the mistakes are figures of speech is only trying to hide that a lot of the content is ridiculous today, which makes a lot of the really important parts of the book (e.g. resurrection) also doubtful. Or do you say that's also just a "figure of speech"?
And Guitar Hero did not say that everything in the holy book is complete bullshit, he was just reaction to the fundamentalism in Lucy's first post (that he believes every word of it).
Yes I do. You must have a better argument than that. Good grief! The 4 corners of the earth. Hmmm. Let me think here. How about 1.North 2.South 3.East 4.West.
Have you never heard of a 'figure of speech'?
Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."
Of course the bible has figures of speech and I agree with Zeni in that not all what's written there is useless today because of scientific mistakes, but I think the four-corners-story and all the astronomic claims are NOT figures of speech, they simply mirror the state of science in those days. To say all the mistakes are figures of speech is only trying to hide that a lot of the content is ridiculous today, which makes a lot of the really important parts of the book (e.g. resurrection) also doubtful. Or do you say that's also just a "figure of speech"?
And Guitar Hero did not say that everything in the holy book is complete bullshit, he was just reaction to the fundamentalism in Lucy's first post (that he believes every word of it).
"Sorry, I know this is off topic, but hey Bob (GH), are you going to the Cleveland convention this year? Just wanted to know"
Hey Rich... I'm tackling between going to Cleveland and seeing Brian in Texas. Unless Brian is coming to a US convention for the first time, I think I know which city is going to win!
"which makes a lot of the really important parts of the book (e.g. resurrection) also doubtful. Or do you say that's also just a "figure of speech"?"
Actually, many scholars (and many common people, I'm sure) are calling the resurrection something you can relate to in your personal resurrection through crisis. That makes the most sense to me. It's something completely possible, for any person.
Thanks Hank and Zeni for your support. I honestly don't seek support in these types of discussions, but of course it's always welcome. :)
Here are a few things I didn't entirely get to before, or were ignored to some extent:
"The devil, Satan, Lucifer, was cast from Heaven durring Creation. So yes he was on earth from the beginning of time. Long before the Church 'made him up'."
The church has an answer for everything, doesn't it? If the devil was cast out from heaven during creation, then why wasn't he mentioned until about 200 CE? I'm sure the faithful Christian reply would be something like, "God said so, because it's in the bible". Face it, there is no logical explanation. The devil was created as an antithesis to God because it was seen to be a perfect way to control people's fears.
I thought I'd post this one again:
"You believe the NT scripture in which Jesus supposedly quotes OT. However, you do not note that virtually everyone born into the peasant class (which was about 90% of the ancient world's population) in his time were illiterate, and had no means of education. Being as Jesus was a member of this class (Joseph was a carpenter for crying out loud), he was most likely no exception."
In contrast to what you said above, this is very far from dumb. It's the truth about society in NT times. Most people with level heads see Jesus as the regular person he was, and therefore don't remove him from the society he lived in, as it would be completely illogical to do so.
"You believe God has the right to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you, as stated in Numbers 25. Therefore, you support terrorism."
You ignored the context itself. Read the passage, and note that it is to be directly taken as God taking sides, choosing to kill one group of people. As I said above, this proves that any fundamentalist who is aware of this passage (and literate enough to understand it) is therefore pro-terrorist.
"Is there a difference between raped, and 'brutally' raped? Is it the childs fault?"
I replied to this one earlier, and you ignored it. Come on, can you honestly say you're denying a woman's right to the control over her own body? It would be smart to concede now. If not, then one day if your wife gets raped and knocked up, it will be interesting to see what you guys would choose to do with her bundle of joy.
Some people may see me as loving argument, but I'm just someone who doesn't like to leave things unfinished. As long as straight-ahead and logical answers can be provided, there is no reason for this to become an argument, anyway. :)
"Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."
Just as an honest pointer: Watch when you say things like this. People may not entertain your opinions whole-heartedly as they once did, because you're resorting to attacking the person and not the problem.
Hey Rich... I'm tackling between going to Cleveland and seeing Brian in Texas. Unless Brian is coming to a US convention for the first time, I think I know which city is going to win!
"which makes a lot of the really important parts of the book (e.g. resurrection) also doubtful. Or do you say that's also just a "figure of speech"?"
Actually, many scholars (and many common people, I'm sure) are calling the resurrection something you can relate to in your personal resurrection through crisis. That makes the most sense to me. It's something completely possible, for any person.
Thanks Hank and Zeni for your support. I honestly don't seek support in these types of discussions, but of course it's always welcome. :)
Here are a few things I didn't entirely get to before, or were ignored to some extent:
"The devil, Satan, Lucifer, was cast from Heaven durring Creation. So yes he was on earth from the beginning of time. Long before the Church 'made him up'."
The church has an answer for everything, doesn't it? If the devil was cast out from heaven during creation, then why wasn't he mentioned until about 200 CE? I'm sure the faithful Christian reply would be something like, "God said so, because it's in the bible". Face it, there is no logical explanation. The devil was created as an antithesis to God because it was seen to be a perfect way to control people's fears.
I thought I'd post this one again:
"You believe the NT scripture in which Jesus supposedly quotes OT. However, you do not note that virtually everyone born into the peasant class (which was about 90% of the ancient world's population) in his time were illiterate, and had no means of education. Being as Jesus was a member of this class (Joseph was a carpenter for crying out loud), he was most likely no exception."
In contrast to what you said above, this is very far from dumb. It's the truth about society in NT times. Most people with level heads see Jesus as the regular person he was, and therefore don't remove him from the society he lived in, as it would be completely illogical to do so.
"You believe God has the right to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you, as stated in Numbers 25. Therefore, you support terrorism."
You ignored the context itself. Read the passage, and note that it is to be directly taken as God taking sides, choosing to kill one group of people. As I said above, this proves that any fundamentalist who is aware of this passage (and literate enough to understand it) is therefore pro-terrorist.
"Is there a difference between raped, and 'brutally' raped? Is it the childs fault?"
I replied to this one earlier, and you ignored it. Come on, can you honestly say you're denying a woman's right to the control over her own body? It would be smart to concede now. If not, then one day if your wife gets raped and knocked up, it will be interesting to see what you guys would choose to do with her bundle of joy.
Some people may see me as loving argument, but I'm just someone who doesn't like to leave things unfinished. As long as straight-ahead and logical answers can be provided, there is no reason for this to become an argument, anyway. :)
"Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."
Just as an honest pointer: Watch when you say things like this. People may not entertain your opinions whole-heartedly as they once did, because you're resorting to attacking the person and not the problem.
Please people think twice before posting possible offensive sentences on the noticeboard!
There's no excuse for getting attention in this way
i understand the offended people.You have my sympathy
There's no excuse for getting attention in this way
i understand the offended people.You have my sympathy
"Is there a difference between raped, and 'brutally' raped? Is it the childs fault?"
"I replied to this one earlier, and you ignored it. Come on, can you honestly say you're denying a woman's right to the control over her own body? It would be smart to concede now. If not, then one day if your wife gets raped and knocked up, it will be interesting to see what you guys would choose to do with her bundle of joy."
I do think abortion is wrong. However, being an American, I also believe in the right to choose. So I leave that up to the person or persons involved. It may sound like a easy way out, but it is truly how I feel. And it is leagal.
"Some people may see me as loving argument, but I'm just someone who doesn't like to leave things unfinished. As long as straight-ahead and logical answers can be provided, there is no reason for this to become an argument, anyway. :)"
I agree. As I have said before I like the debate as long as there is no attcking from outside parties.
"Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."
"Just as an honest pointer: Watch when you say things like this. People may not entertain your opinions whole-heartedly as they once did, because you're resorting to attacking the person and not the problem."
Agreed. Sometimes people need to come up with some things, credible things, on their own. If they want to debate. (either one of us or anyone here for that matter)
"I replied to this one earlier, and you ignored it. Come on, can you honestly say you're denying a woman's right to the control over her own body? It would be smart to concede now. If not, then one day if your wife gets raped and knocked up, it will be interesting to see what you guys would choose to do with her bundle of joy."
I do think abortion is wrong. However, being an American, I also believe in the right to choose. So I leave that up to the person or persons involved. It may sound like a easy way out, but it is truly how I feel. And it is leagal.
"Some people may see me as loving argument, but I'm just someone who doesn't like to leave things unfinished. As long as straight-ahead and logical answers can be provided, there is no reason for this to become an argument, anyway. :)"
I agree. As I have said before I like the debate as long as there is no attcking from outside parties.
"Your argument is void. Maybe like your brain."
"Just as an honest pointer: Watch when you say things like this. People may not entertain your opinions whole-heartedly as they once did, because you're resorting to attacking the person and not the problem."
Agreed. Sometimes people need to come up with some things, credible things, on their own. If they want to debate. (either one of us or anyone here for that matter)
"You believe the NT scripture in which Jesus supposedly quotes OT. However, you do not note that virtually everyone born into the peasant class (which was about 90% of the ancient world's population) in his time were illiterate, and had no means of education. Being as Jesus was a member of this class (Joseph was a carpenter for crying out loud), he was most likely no exception."
I honestly can't answer that one with facts or findings. All I believe is He was the Son of God. You can do anything with those powers.
In contrast to what you said above, this is very far from dumb. It's the truth about society in NT times. Most people with level heads see Jesus as the regular person he was, and therefore don't remove him from the society he lived in, as it would be completely illogical to do so.
"You believe God has the right to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you, as stated in Numbers 25. Therefore, you support terrorism."
I just skimmed that reference you gave me. It seems to me, that the Comandments were being broken (the Old Law). God wasn't happy with the way the 'Children of Israel' were behaving (idols and so on) so He had certian leaders taken care of. And no I am not a supporter of terrorism. These things happened when the Old Law was being enforced. It must have been a brutal time. I don't have any creative answers for that.
I honestly can't answer that one with facts or findings. All I believe is He was the Son of God. You can do anything with those powers.
In contrast to what you said above, this is very far from dumb. It's the truth about society in NT times. Most people with level heads see Jesus as the regular person he was, and therefore don't remove him from the society he lived in, as it would be completely illogical to do so.
"You believe God has the right to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you, as stated in Numbers 25. Therefore, you support terrorism."
I just skimmed that reference you gave me. It seems to me, that the Comandments were being broken (the Old Law). God wasn't happy with the way the 'Children of Israel' were behaving (idols and so on) so He had certian leaders taken care of. And no I am not a supporter of terrorism. These things happened when the Old Law was being enforced. It must have been a brutal time. I don't have any creative answers for that.
"God wasn't happy with the way the 'Children of Israel' were behaving (idols and so on) so He had certian leaders taken care of. And no I am not a supporter of terrorism. These things happened when the Old Law was being enforced. It must have been a brutal time. I don't have any creative answers for that."
Hey, I didn't say you had to have the answers :P
And I'm certainly not saying you support terrorism. But I just thought you should now note that you have admitted to not believing every word of the bible, many times in this topic, although you initially said you did. A fundamentalist believes every word of the bible, and clearly you've spoken otherwise. Like someone said before in the topic, they definitely need more Christians like you... Sticking with your beliefs, while not swallowing everything the church has to offer.
Hey, I didn't say you had to have the answers :P
And I'm certainly not saying you support terrorism. But I just thought you should now note that you have admitted to not believing every word of the bible, many times in this topic, although you initially said you did. A fundamentalist believes every word of the bible, and clearly you've spoken otherwise. Like someone said before in the topic, they definitely need more Christians like you... Sticking with your beliefs, while not swallowing everything the church has to offer.
Thanks GH. You are a good guy :)