The Lesser Evil - 2016

Oscar J wrote:
You keep coming back to that, yeah. You forget to mention that more people in the US die from toddlers with guns than from islamic terror.

Irrespective of whether that's a true statement or not, it is for sure false equivalence. Two totally different issues.
There are also many other ways in which people die, and in larger numbers - car crashes for instance.
So if I talk about the issue of car crash and you bring in the menace of, say, suicides, or drug overdose, you will appear stupid.

Oscar J wrote:
But if "common man" means racist simpleton, sure, you're right. 52 percent of Trump's supporters rate blacks as less evolved than whites. Furthermore, 38 percent of USA's total white population rate black as less evolved. There are no excuses for this shit, it's just appalling.

While you quote all those numbers, don't forget that far far greater proportion of Muslims the world over consider Jews to be sub-human. Far far greater proportion of Muslims consider non-Muslims (especially polytheists, idol worshipers and other pagans) to be inherently ugly and dirty and worthy of being wiped off the face of the earth.

It can be argued that the Trump supporters you mention may have developed such perceptions because of lack of awareness, lack of exposure to the other races, misleading stereotypes, etc. But for Muslims who form the opinions I have stated above, they find their inspiration from their holy scripture.

"Irrespective of whether that's a true statement or not, it is for sure false equivalence. Two totally different issues.
There are also many other ways in which people die, and in larger numbers - car crashes for instance.
So if I talk about the issue of car crash and you bring in the menace of, say, suicides, or drug overdose, you will appear stupid."

The sentiment wasn't that toddlers are dangerous, it's that terror attacks are extremely rare, so rare that you are just as likely to be shot by your own baby. And you're hundreds of times more likely to get shot by American Joe Average on the street.

"Far far greater proportion of Muslims consider non-Muslims (especially polytheists, idol worshipers and other pagans) to be inherently ugly and dirty and worthy of being wiped off the face of the earth."

Far far more than 38 percent? Far far more than 52 percent? Sounds like utter rubbish to me.

Oscar J wrote:
"Irrespective of whether that's a true statement or not, it is for sure false equivalence. Two totally different issues.
There are also many other ways in which people die, and in larger numbers - car crashes for instance.
So if I talk about the issue of car crash and you bring in the menace of, say, suicides, or drug overdose, you will appear stupid."

The sentiment wasn't that toddlers are dangerous, it's that terror attacks are extremely rare, so rare that you are just as likely to be shot by your own baby. And you're hundreds of times more likely to get shot by American Joe Average on the street.

That makes it all the more important to tackle the issue today, when (accordign to you) it is a small issue, than wait till it becomes a bigger beast.

Oscar J wrote:
"Far far greater proportion of Muslims consider non-Muslims (especially polytheists, idol worshipers and other pagans) to be inherently ugly and dirty and worthy of being wiped off the face of the earth."

Far far more than 38 percent? Far far more than 52 percent? Sounds like utter rubbish to me.

To a Pew Research Center questionnaire asking respondents to give their views of members of various religions along a spectrum from "very favorable" to "very unfavorable"-

60% of Turks,
74% of Pakistanis,
76% of Indonesians,
88% of Moroccans,
99% of Lebanese Muslims
100% of Jordanians

checked either "somewhat unfavorable" or "very unfavorable" for Jews.

Read and weep-
http://www.pewglobal.org/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/

Panchgani wrote:

Actually Trumped "flipped" Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania based on protectionist trade rhetoric. ***

*** Disclaimer:  I did not vote for Trump.

Though NAFTA and TPP were also targetted by Trump, I did not notice they played such an important role.

Oscar J wrote:

1. And oh my god, you're right. Terrorists are in 2016 almost twice as dangerous to Americans as toddles. God help us. But then toddlers had already killed 23 people in Jan-April 2016, so it'll be very exciting to see if they can fight back and take the win again in 2016.  Nice hyperbole

My point being that you are on average 500 - 1000 times (!) more likely to be killed in USA's huge gun violence than in a terrorist attack. I agree 

 

Not to mention how likely you are to die in diabetes or heart diseases, your own lifestyle and the one you force upon your children likely killing millions of Americans each year.  More hyperbole

 

Fear of terrorist attacks in the US is completely irrational, but Trump did a great job exposing and using that fear. I agree

2. Since you do not believe statistics from media with different political stance from your own, here's an article in USA Today, supposedly fairly neutral according to your source:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/27/poll-black-prejudice-america/1662067/

 

The following articles provide a critical review of the AP study:

http://www.imediaethics.org/what-the-ap-poll-on-racial-attitudes-really-tells-us-part-1/

http://www.imediaethics.org/9-in-10-americans-can-be-classified-as-racist-against-either-blacks-or-whites-what-the-ap-poll-on-racial-attitudes-really-tells-us-part-2/

ParisNair wrote:

"That makes it all the more important to tackle the issue today, when (accordign to you) it is a small issue, than wait till it becomes a bigger beast."

 

There's nothing that suggests islamic terrorism will ever become a bigger beast in USA. They should focus on tackling real problems instead.

"Far far greater proportion of Muslims consider non-Muslims (especially polytheists, idol worshipers and other pagans) to be inherently ugly and dirty and worthy of being wiped off the face of the earth."

Far far more than 38 percent? Far far more than 52 percent? Sounds like utter rubbish to me.

To a Pew Research Center questionnaire asking respondents to give their views of members of various religions along a spectrum from "very favorable" to "very unfavorable"-

60% of Turks,
74% of Pakistanis,
76% of Indonesians,
88% of Moroccans,
99% of Lebanese Muslims
100% of Jordanians

checked either "somewhat unfavorable" or "very unfavorable" for Jews.

Read and weep-
http://www.pewglobal.org/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/[/QUOTE]

First of all, the data there is 12 - 14 years old.

Second of all, do you actually equate "somewhat unfavorable" or even "very unfavorable" with " inherently ugly and dirty and worthy of being wiped off the face of the earth."? I'm sorry, but that would make you an idiot. And if you'd read on in your own source, the same muslim population goes on to say that they consider Judaism to be the religion most prone to violence. You don't think the unfavourable views on Judaism could come from the violent conflicts in the middle east, do you?

Oh, and I guess by your reasoning, a majority of the Dutch and Germans consider Muslims being scum and worthy of being killed as well? This according to the same page, but without an ongoing conflict to justify it. Doesn't seem to likely, does it. 

Most importantly, what does this have to do with the Muslim minority in the US, that with extremely few exceptions live peacefully along Christians and what's probably the largest Jew community in the world?

I don't even know why I am trying to reason with someone who obviously has very unfavorable views on muslims. Especially since you've just enlightened us with the true meaning of the phrase "unfavorable".

Panchgani: You're nitpicking a bit, I don't actually think we disagree much. Thanks for the link.

Oscar J wrote:
There's nothing that suggests islamic terrorism will ever become a bigger beast in USA. They should focus on tackling real problems instead.

Are you an expert on the subject?

Oscar J wrote:
Second of all, do you actually equate "somewhat unfavorable" or even "very unfavorable" with " inherently ugly and dirty and worthy of being wiped off the face of the earth."? I'm sorry, but that would make you an idiot. And if you'd read on in your own source, the same muslim population goes on to say that they consider Judaism to be the religion most prone to violence. You don't think the unfavourable views on Judaism could come from the violent conflicts in the middle east, do you?

It was a questionaire with options raning from "very favorable" to "very unfavorable". To know why I used the terms ugly and dirty, you should know what Qur'an has to say on the subject, first.
For instance why are non-Muslims restricted from entry in Mecca? Its because the Qur'an specifically instructs the believers to do so - because the non-believers are unclean.

Oscar J wrote:
I don't even know why I am trying to reason with someone who obviously has very unfavorable views on muslims. Especially since you've just enlightened us with the true meaning of the phrase "unfavorable".

You could stop. This thread was not supposed to be about Islam either.
Indeed, I do believe Islam is not the "word of God" but I don't have anything against individual Muslims. Beyond that, I am not gonna apologize or explain or correct your perception of what I think.

1. Ad hominem.

2. First of all, I still think you're exaggerating. Second of all, the Qur'an is not the only religious text describing individuals or populations in this kind of terms. Look no further than the Bible.

3. I didn't expect you to.

Oscar J - false equivalence again. And only because you feel I am exaggerating, please take a look-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3e4hmxmITE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mWX8VB18nI

Here is more recent data from 2015 regarding anti-semitism ...

http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/anti-semitism-international/new-adl-poll-anti-semitic-attitudes-19-countries.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/#.WCT5jfkrL4Y

THE ANTI-SEMITISM INDEX SCORES WERE EXTREMELY HIGH FOR MUSLIMS ACROSS ALL SIX OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES SAMPLED, WITH THE LOWEST LEVEL RECORDED IN FRANCE:

Belgium: 68 percent of Muslims harbor anti-Semitic attitudes, compared to 21 percent overall;
Spain: 62 percent, compared to 29 percent overall;
Germany: 56 percent, compared to 16 percent overall;
Italy: 56 percent, compared to 29 percent overall;
United Kingdom: 54 percent, compared to 12 percent overall;
France: 49 percent, compared to 17 percent overall.

We, are truly screwed ....

Jesme wrote:

We, are truly screwed ....

Thanks for bringing this back on topic.
I don't think you are really screwed. I don't think the President makes any policy decisions all by himself. His more extreme and radical promises are probably never going to be kept by him - those were just election rhetoric. IMHO.

Panchgani: that doesn't quite look like a neutral organisation, which you were so picky about before. Not saying the numbers are wrong, but determining "anti semitic tendencies" is certainly a science in itself and it's one of those things that are quite open for interpretation. I am fully aware that there is a problem with anti semitism within many Muslim communities, though. They have been in a bitter feud for decades.

ParisNair: I am going to assume those videos show people getting their heads chopped off or something. Not watching that.

To get back on topic: here are Trump's energy politics: https://www.greatagain.gov/policy/energy-independence.html

This is pretty devastating. I find it ironic how Florida, who suprisingly voted for Trump, are going to be among the first that feel the consequences of Trump's climate change denial.

No, they're not ISIS videos. I'm not an alarmist or a propagandist.
One of those videos is a BBC documentary and the other is a short discussion between college student and a professor in the USA.

But, I finally get it. No matter what you see or hear, the left liberal mentality is so so ingrained in your mind that you are blind to different views and information. You are more comfortable in your assumptions and notions than any facts.