Oscar J
[url=https://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+racism]https://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+racism[/url]
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pittrek
I was hoping for actual evidence - things he said or things he did. It's sad that people call him racist without actually proving it. Or that some people think that islam is a race, or that Mexicans are a race...
Oscar J
What's sad is people that don't bother looking up the UN's very definition of racial discrimination:
"In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
You might want to read up on the subject: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx
Muslims are an ethnic group, and Mexicans are people from the same national origin. So yeah, Trump is a textbook racist.
"In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
You might want to read up on the subject: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx
Muslims are an ethnic group, and Mexicans are people from the same national origin. So yeah, Trump is a textbook racist.
pittrek
Oh Jesus.
I know what racism is. I know what discrimination is. I know what racial discrimination is. And no, I still haven't seen ANY evidence that "The Annoying Orange Guy" has said or done anything what would fall inside the definition.
And no, muslims are not an ethnic group, but a religion / religious group. Maybe you confused Muslims with Arabs but even that makes no sense because not every Arab is Muslim and not every Muslim is an Arab.
Mexicans are a mix of various ethnic groups, mostly belonging to the white / caucasian / european / "insert any modern politically correct term" race.
I am seriously disappointed with current state of America. There are so many things for which Trump deserves to be criticized, like his terrifying speeches about how he wants to nuke the fuck out of ISIS, or how it's OK to torture people who are suspected to be terrorists AND THEIR FAMILIES, his plans to destroy Obamacare (even if I must admit that I know only the theoretical background of Obamacare and not how it actually works in real life, so maybe it could be a good thing, I don't know) and not telling how does he want to replace it and many, many both stupid and terrifying comments, but no - for some reason everybody thinks he is sexist, racist, misogynist, (I think some people even called him a rapist) but never actually bother with proving any of these claims.
I know what racism is. I know what discrimination is. I know what racial discrimination is. And no, I still haven't seen ANY evidence that "The Annoying Orange Guy" has said or done anything what would fall inside the definition.
And no, muslims are not an ethnic group, but a religion / religious group. Maybe you confused Muslims with Arabs but even that makes no sense because not every Arab is Muslim and not every Muslim is an Arab.
Mexicans are a mix of various ethnic groups, mostly belonging to the white / caucasian / european / "insert any modern politically correct term" race.
I am seriously disappointed with current state of America. There are so many things for which Trump deserves to be criticized, like his terrifying speeches about how he wants to nuke the fuck out of ISIS, or how it's OK to torture people who are suspected to be terrorists AND THEIR FAMILIES, his plans to destroy Obamacare (even if I must admit that I know only the theoretical background of Obamacare and not how it actually works in real life, so maybe it could be a good thing, I don't know) and not telling how does he want to replace it and many, many both stupid and terrifying comments, but no - for some reason everybody thinks he is sexist, racist, misogynist, (I think some people even called him a rapist) but never actually bother with proving any of these claims.
YourValentine
What more proof do you need, pittrek? With all the racist, sexist and anti-democratic rhetoric Trump produced in the last year - what else do you actually need? If you did not live under a rock you must surely have followed the speeches of Trump ad nauseam like everybody else.
I have heard very often, that it was only words in order to get votes but that is what people thought about Hitler in the 1930s - surely he did not "really" blame everything on the "Jews" and surely he would not start a war and surely he would not kill all the Jews - but he did. And he did announce it all before he was appointed chancellor. Please use google and YouTube and look up all the Trump language and then tell me how it can be all right to allow this fascist to become President in a democracy or even vote for him.
I have heard very often, that it was only words in order to get votes but that is what people thought about Hitler in the 1930s - surely he did not "really" blame everything on the "Jews" and surely he would not start a war and surely he would not kill all the Jews - but he did. And he did announce it all before he was appointed chancellor. Please use google and YouTube and look up all the Trump language and then tell me how it can be all right to allow this fascist to become President in a democracy or even vote for him.
Oscar J
"Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, [b]homeland[/b], language or dialect, symbolic systems such as [b]religion[/b], mythology and ritual [...]"
Look it up.
I did say Mexicans are from the same national origin, nothing else. But they can definitely be regarded as an ethnical group as well.
What's more interesting is why you think it's important to make these distinctions. Is discrimination of religious groups, nationalities, women etc. somehow acceptable as long as he isn't "racist" by your definition?
Look it up.
I did say Mexicans are from the same national origin, nothing else. But they can definitely be regarded as an ethnical group as well.
What's more interesting is why you think it's important to make these distinctions. Is discrimination of religious groups, nationalities, women etc. somehow acceptable as long as he isn't "racist" by your definition?
pittrek
YV - I'm not sure if I can "read between the lines" correctly, but are you suggesting that I am supporting Trump or that I'm happy that Americans voted for him? If yes, my response to both of these points is a NO. As I said I honestly don't like the idea that a man who thinks that it's OK to torture wives and children of people who are suspected to be terrorists, or who has no problems to say publicly things like "I would bomb the shit out of them", that he will have access to nuclear weapons.
Oscar J - [QUOTE] What's more interesting is why you think it's important to make these distinctions. Is discrimination of religious groups, nationalities, women etc. somehow acceptable as long as he isn't "racist" by your definition? [/QUOTE]
What the actual fuck? What makes you think that any kind of discrimination is OK to me? I am strictly against any form of discrimination, including any "positive" discrimination. And yes, it IS important to make distinctions, because words have meanings. For example there's a very dangerous trend on feminist propaganda channels calling everything rape - as a person knowing 2 real rape victims and living with one of them for a long time I can't imagine anything more insensitive to real crime victims.
Oscar J - [QUOTE] What's more interesting is why you think it's important to make these distinctions. Is discrimination of religious groups, nationalities, women etc. somehow acceptable as long as he isn't "racist" by your definition? [/QUOTE]
What the actual fuck? What makes you think that any kind of discrimination is OK to me? I am strictly against any form of discrimination, including any "positive" discrimination. And yes, it IS important to make distinctions, because words have meanings. For example there's a very dangerous trend on feminist propaganda channels calling everything rape - as a person knowing 2 real rape victims and living with one of them for a long time I can't imagine anything more insensitive to real crime victims.
Oscar J
No need for profanities.
"It's sad that people call him racist without actually proving it. Or that some people think that islam is a race, or that Mexicans are a race... "
You seemed to imply that he didn't deserve being called a racist, because, while he has insulted and discriminated muslims and Mexicans, they aren't "human races" so consequently he isn't a racist.
I argue that:
* Racism, according to the UN, does not require the victims of discrimination to be of a certain human "race" (which by the way is a dated way of classifying people).
* It's strange for anyone who's against discrimination to argue otherwise, to split hairs over the terminology. Especially when you, by established definitions, are wrong.
"It's sad that people call him racist without actually proving it. Or that some people think that islam is a race, or that Mexicans are a race... "
You seemed to imply that he didn't deserve being called a racist, because, while he has insulted and discriminated muslims and Mexicans, they aren't "human races" so consequently he isn't a racist.
I argue that:
* Racism, according to the UN, does not require the victims of discrimination to be of a certain human "race" (which by the way is a dated way of classifying people).
* It's strange for anyone who's against discrimination to argue otherwise, to split hairs over the terminology. Especially when you, by established definitions, are wrong.
YourValentine
Sorry if I misunderstood, pittrek but your post really sounds to me like : "you all claim he is a racist, prove it" which sounds to me like "you are calling him a racist when in fact he may not be one."
I am glad you are not saying that :-)
I am glad you are not saying that :-)
Costa86
[QUOTE] [b]Day dop wrote:[/b]
If by "they" - the "less educated", you mean the working class who've been shafted to the point where they have nothing to lose, then it's understandable they'd be willing to take a risk on a leave vote, rather than more of the same when they can't even afford to buy new clothes for their kids.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree they've been shafted. But I think even the highly educated have been shafted. Each year we have thousands of graduates who can't find a decent job and end up doing menial work. Don't they also deserve a good job? Or, at the very least, don't they deserve someone guiding them away from subjects which are seemingly no longer needed in today's economy. This bares comparison with the work of some manual workers which is no longer needed, because, for instance, it has moved to China or Mexico. It's not the same thing, but it is similar.
We are soon going to have a situation where our parents were more prosperous than us. And the biggest issue is house and rent prices, at least in the UK, with people paying at a minimum £1200 a month to live in a studio flat in a relatively good area of London...
If by "they" - the "less educated", you mean the working class who've been shafted to the point where they have nothing to lose, then it's understandable they'd be willing to take a risk on a leave vote, rather than more of the same when they can't even afford to buy new clothes for their kids.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree they've been shafted. But I think even the highly educated have been shafted. Each year we have thousands of graduates who can't find a decent job and end up doing menial work. Don't they also deserve a good job? Or, at the very least, don't they deserve someone guiding them away from subjects which are seemingly no longer needed in today's economy. This bares comparison with the work of some manual workers which is no longer needed, because, for instance, it has moved to China or Mexico. It's not the same thing, but it is similar.
We are soon going to have a situation where our parents were more prosperous than us. And the biggest issue is house and rent prices, at least in the UK, with people paying at a minimum £1200 a month to live in a studio flat in a relatively good area of London...
The Real Wizard
As long as people are properly educated, chances are they will find work in a field that's relevant today.
5 of the top 7 jobs today did not exist a decade ago - and they're all in IT.
There's a reason why the US is trailing behind most of the developed world in this regard - the poor education system.
Immigrants absolutely are taking the jobs - because they're more educated and more qualified.
The US is going to suck for a few decades, and the uneducated white people will die off, kind of like attrition in the workplace. Educated people will come in from elsewhere, and in time things will be fine. The empire will have long crumbled, and they'll no longer be the superpower they once were (hell, that's already the case now). But the country will be functional - just like the UK.
But for now, we're watching the system that sustained people for a couple hundred years start to slowly fall apart, and it's not pretty.
5 of the top 7 jobs today did not exist a decade ago - and they're all in IT.
There's a reason why the US is trailing behind most of the developed world in this regard - the poor education system.
Immigrants absolutely are taking the jobs - because they're more educated and more qualified.
The US is going to suck for a few decades, and the uneducated white people will die off, kind of like attrition in the workplace. Educated people will come in from elsewhere, and in time things will be fine. The empire will have long crumbled, and they'll no longer be the superpower they once were (hell, that's already the case now). But the country will be functional - just like the UK.
But for now, we're watching the system that sustained people for a couple hundred years start to slowly fall apart, and it's not pretty.
Oscar J
^ Yup.
Saint Jiub
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
As long as people are properly educated, chances are they will find work in a field that's relevant today.
5 of the top 7 jobs today did not exist a decade ago - and they're all in IT.
There's a reason why the US is trailing behind most of the developed world in this regard - the poor education system.
Immigrants absolutely are taking the jobs - because they're more educated and more qualified.
The US is going to suck for a few decades, and the uneducated white people will die off, kind of like attrition in the workplace. Educated people will come in from elsewhere, and in time things will be fine. The empire will have long crumbled, and they'll no longer be the superpower they once were (hell, that's already the case now). But the country will be functional - just like the UK.
But for now, we're watching the system that sustained people for a couple hundred years start to slowly fall apart, and it's not pretty. [/QUOTE]
Clarification ... The legal immigrants are more educated.
I am not so sure that the US or UK will be OK.
Asia will be OK. Asian students are preferred by the University of Illinois - Urbana because they are willing to pay the full $50,000 per year price tag. In the Engineering and Business colleges, only the top 5% of American high school have good enough test scores to qualify for entry into University of Ilinois -
Urbana
Looks like University of Illinois! - YouTube
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuAeIEXoAc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuAeIEXoAc[/url]
As long as people are properly educated, chances are they will find work in a field that's relevant today.
5 of the top 7 jobs today did not exist a decade ago - and they're all in IT.
There's a reason why the US is trailing behind most of the developed world in this regard - the poor education system.
Immigrants absolutely are taking the jobs - because they're more educated and more qualified.
The US is going to suck for a few decades, and the uneducated white people will die off, kind of like attrition in the workplace. Educated people will come in from elsewhere, and in time things will be fine. The empire will have long crumbled, and they'll no longer be the superpower they once were (hell, that's already the case now). But the country will be functional - just like the UK.
But for now, we're watching the system that sustained people for a couple hundred years start to slowly fall apart, and it's not pretty. [/QUOTE]
Clarification ... The legal immigrants are more educated.
I am not so sure that the US or UK will be OK.
Asia will be OK. Asian students are preferred by the University of Illinois - Urbana because they are willing to pay the full $50,000 per year price tag. In the Engineering and Business colleges, only the top 5% of American high school have good enough test scores to qualify for entry into University of Ilinois -
Urbana
Looks like University of Illinois! - YouTube
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuAeIEXoAc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuAeIEXoAc[/url]
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]Panchgani wrote:[/b]
I am not so sure that the US or UK will be OK.
Asia will be OK. Asian students are preferred by the University of Illinois - Urbana because they are willing to pay the full $50,000 per year price tag. In the Engineering and Business colleges, only the top 5% of American high school have good enough test scores to qualify for entry into University of Ilinois -
Urbana
[/QUOTE]
Those Asians aren't in Asia - they're in the US. How does that somehow mean the US won't be OK?
It just means the successful ones won't be a white majority anymore.
Does it ultimately matter that the demographic of successful Americans is changing to different skin colours?
I am not so sure that the US or UK will be OK.
Asia will be OK. Asian students are preferred by the University of Illinois - Urbana because they are willing to pay the full $50,000 per year price tag. In the Engineering and Business colleges, only the top 5% of American high school have good enough test scores to qualify for entry into University of Ilinois -
Urbana
[/QUOTE]
Those Asians aren't in Asia - they're in the US. How does that somehow mean the US won't be OK?
It just means the successful ones won't be a white majority anymore.
Does it ultimately matter that the demographic of successful Americans is changing to different skin colours?
Saint Jiub
[QUOTE]
[b]The Real Wizard wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] [b]Panchgani wrote:[/b]
I am not so sure that the US or UK will be OK.
Asia will be OK. Asian students are preferred by the University of Illinois - Urbana because they are willing to pay the full $50,000 per year price tag. In the Engineering and Business colleges, only the top 5% of American high school have good enough test scores to qualify for entry into University of Ilinois -
Urbana
[/QUOTE]
Those Asians aren't in Asia - they're in the US. How does that somehow mean the US won't be OK?
It just means the successful ones won't be a white majority anymore.
Does it ultimately matter that the demographic of successful Americans is changing to different skin colours? [/QUOTE]
...
There are not enough asians to offset the general educational decline in the US (particularly in math and science).
[b]The Real Wizard wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] [b]Panchgani wrote:[/b]
I am not so sure that the US or UK will be OK.
Asia will be OK. Asian students are preferred by the University of Illinois - Urbana because they are willing to pay the full $50,000 per year price tag. In the Engineering and Business colleges, only the top 5% of American high school have good enough test scores to qualify for entry into University of Ilinois -
Urbana
[/QUOTE]
Those Asians aren't in Asia - they're in the US. How does that somehow mean the US won't be OK?
It just means the successful ones won't be a white majority anymore.
Does it ultimately matter that the demographic of successful Americans is changing to different skin colours? [/QUOTE]
...
There are not enough asians to offset the general educational decline in the US (particularly in math and science).