Queen "Elite!".

Grateful Fan: This is getting quite silly.
All sorts of groups exist. "Red Special" collectors meet in Italy. The mini-cooper club exists, The Aberdeen supporters club exists, the mile-high club, the millionaires club etc.
Queenzone is a club. So a few Queen fans (I myself included) are fed up with Queenzone. The bitching, the moaning, the back-stabbing, the death-threats etc, and decide - "you know what let's start our own wee club - free from all of that hassles and trolls - and lets live happy ever after".

So we did - for a while. This was a private exclusive club. Now before I hear talk about conspiracy or revolutions - there was an admission price.
That is capitalism for you. Think of it as an exclusive golf club if you like. If you have problems with exclusive clubs - go communist.
We all lived happily, and we traded our baseball cards, our stories, drank brandy and smoked big cigars (well you get the point).

Except one member went rogue, lied, stole and cheated and broke the rules. Sh*t happens. So what?
We all breath the same air, the Mono Lisa keeps on smiling - again so what.

I am proud to be an Aberdeen supporter. I am proud to own an XJS, I am proud to be a millionaire, I am proud to be a FANTHOLOGIST!
Any one want to join? Form an orderly queue, the admission "fee"? For the XJS club = 1 XJS. The Red Special Club = 1 x red special. An antiques collectors club = 1 x antique.
To join an exclusive records club = (well you go figure).
A priviledged elete perhaps, but conspiracy...
So there it is all bare, all public.

We are not Freemasons, the Vatican, CIA or MI5. We are a few good friends who trade with each other. Is that really so mind boggling or unforgiving?

Remember, we did not kick this off. We have took losses before and will again, but to be called a "C*nt" on a public forum... and for what?

[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b] I'm not involved in any of these trades so I have no inside knowledge. However it strikes me that some underhand deal was done whenever Sun City was offered here for free. The guy uploaded one part but not the other (as he promised to do). Now I'm willing to bet there's a few people on here know what happened to the second part and have kept quiet about it. My guess is that someone here made the guy an offer in return for exclusive owndership of the whole Sun City gig. I could be wrong of course -- maybe the guy just cleared off, or maybe he was using the partial upload as a bargaining ploy and wasn't the rather naive roadie figure he made himself out to be -- but if I'm right how does that sit with the idea that the "elite" traders are doing us all a favour? In this case
surely they are keeping material out of the public domain? Should they be praised for this?[/QUOTE] No takers on this one? lol[/QUOTE]
Okay, since you asked I answer: If some fan had obtained the Sun City gig we would surely have heard about it - at least rumours. In fact, there are usually more rumours than actual recordings. Of course it is much better to blame it on "elite traders" - whoever they may be. Like 9/11 was an "inside job" and men never flew to the moon. Conspiracy theories have the advantage that you can blame anyone - not even someone specific - without the slightest proof. "someone" "made an offer", some "underhand deal", omg - I don't believe it. If you knew ANYTHING about collecting you would know that any collector would have been too happy to download Sun City for free because exclusiveness is not the aim of collecting - completeness is.
[/QUOTE]


Eeuuhhh their are 5 full sc shows outthere. The guy who posted this ownes 5 complete shows! They were even on hv his sales list for a short while. Even QPL is hunting down these recordings.

As been told numerous times before ; this isn't a queen soundboard recording ! It was recorded by someone working at the venue.

[QUOTE] [b]Pierre wrote:[/b]
Elite suckers i will say bloodsuckers...who F cares give it away free & its F stolen stuff anyway.[/QUOTE]

I think you'll find that if someone has an original acetate of the Reaction demos because he was a band member and then sells his copy in auction and someone buys it: that's NOT stealing.

So. When are YOU going to give something back to the Queen community Pierre?
Taped any concerts yourself that you'd like to share or do you plan on taking for the rest of your life?

Your kind of attitude only ever seems to come from people who take...

It's like being paid an income without actually having gone to work for it and then complaining when it's taken off you.

[QUOTE]

[b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b] Grateful Fan: This is getting quite silly.
All sorts of groups exist. "Red Special" collectors meet in Italy. The mini-cooper club exists, The Aberdeen supporters club exists, the mile-high club, the millionaires club etc.
Queenzone is a club. So a few Queen fans (I myself included) are fed up with Queenzone. The bitching, the moaning, the back-stabbing, the death-threats etc, and decide - "you know what let's start our own wee club - free from all of that hassles and trolls - and lets live happy ever after".

So we did - for a while. This was a private exclusive club. Now before I hear talk about conspiracy or revolutions - there was an admission price.
That is capitalism for you. Think of it as an exclusive golf club if you like. If you have problems with exclusive clubs - go communist.
We all lived happily, and we traded our baseball cards, our stories, drank brandy and smoked big cigars (well you get the point).

Except one member went rogue, lied, stole and cheated and broke the rules. Sh*t happens. So what?
We all breath the same air, the Mono Lisa keeps on smiling - again so what.

I am proud to be an Aberdeen supporter. I am proud to own an XJS, I am proud to be a millionaire, I am proud to be a FANTHOLOGIST!
Any one want to join? Form an orderly queue, the admission "fee"? For the XJS club = 1 XJS. The Red Special Club = 1 x red special. An antiques collectors club = 1 x antique.
To join an exclusive records club = (well you go figure).
A priviledged elete perhaps, but conspiracy...
So there it is all bare, all public.

We are not Freemasons, the Vatican, CIA or MI5. We are a few good friends who trade with each other. Is that really so mind boggling or unforgiving?

Remember, we did not kick this off. We have took losses before and will again, but to be called a "C*nt" on a public forum... and for what?[/QUOTE]

Yep capitalism at its ugliest. You pay for and trade music that you didn't create, keep and exploit it until it has no value, and then (sometimes, not always) share it when -- to you -- it has no more value. You mirror the worst aspects of record companies who basically do the same thing. And then when you lose control over something (as when Fuller leaked The Reaction stuff) you expect sympathy from everyone who doesn't have access to these recordings, and yet is expected to express sympathy otherwise we won't get any more scraps from the table lol! Sorry, I'm too old to play that game. So, once again, thanks for what you've shared, I respect that you've paid for material that you own, and it's a bit shit that someone betrayed your trust and that you are being insulted in the way you claim, but .... let's not have any more of these self-pitying threads please.

[QUOTE] [b]John S Stuart wrote: [/b] Grateful Fan: This is getting quite silly. All sorts of groups exist. "Red Special" collectors meet in Italy. The mini-cooper club exists, The Aberdeen supporters club exists, the mile-high club, the millionaires club etc. Queenzone is a club. So a few Queen fans (I myself included) are fed up with Queenzone. The bitching, the moaning, the back-stabbing, the death-threats etc, and decide - "you know what let's start our own wee club - free from all of that hassles and trolls - and lets live happy ever after". So we did - for a while. This was a private exclusive club. Now before I hear talk about conspiracy or revolutions - there was an admission price. That is capitalism for you. Think of it as an exclusive golf club if you like. If you have problems with exclusive clubs - go communist. We all lived happily, and we traded our baseball cards, our stories, drank brandy and smoked big cigars (well you get the point). Except one member went rogue, lied, stole and cheated and broke the rules. Sh*t happens. So what? We all breath the same air, the Mono Lisa keeps on smiling - again so what. I am proud to be an Aberdeen supporter. I am proud to own an XJS, I am proud to be a millionaire, I am proud to be a FANTHOLOGIST! Any one want to join? Form an orderly queue, the admission "fee"? For the XJS club = 1 XJS. The Red Special Club = 1 x red special. An antiques collectors club = 1 x antique. To join an exclusive records club = (well you go figure). A priviledged elete perhaps, but conspiracy... So there it is all bare, all public. We are not Freemasons, the Vatican, CIA or MI5. We are a few good friends who trade with each other. Is that really so mind boggling or unforgiving? Remember, we did not kick this off. We have took losses before and will again, but to be called a "C*nt" on a public forum... and for what?[/QUOTE] Well I can google 'Mile High Club".  Until yesterday nobody could say that about Fanthology.  That's a fairly stark difference.  How can one be admitted if one doesn't even know it exists? By consensus invitation I gather.  It's all a little cabal-like at the very least.   Regardless, my initial point was that I thought your own words revealed YV's reaction as too strong both in degree and tone.  There are indeed efforts out there to black hole this stuff, supported by self interest  and various philosophies and internal moral codes.  Honour among thieves and all that.  I accept that your investment of time, money, experience, will and knowledge means you have earned the right to dictate the terms of the having.  But the value of what you have comes from the wanting - wanting beyond the circle of rarity 'millionaires'.  So everybody else gets to dictate those terms.  For some that will come in the form of patience, graciousness and gratitude when something does appear.  Others will find it more expedient to call you a c*nt. I am sorry that you experience that.  It's not pleasant. Others may be like me: When I listened to the Taylor track this morning I did so twice, with my eyes closed, appreciating that unique, incredible rock voice in a new configuration.  Not his most remarkable track ever of course, yet It was an unanticipated pleasure, a small joy all the same.  Like discovering a book by your favourite author that you didn't know he'd written. That 1000 plus others had been there before me didn't reduce the feeling of a private, special experience. For the enrichment of your own private experiences, you keep some of that from people. From me. I understand that art dealers exist, and that they facilitate the amassing of private collections for themselves and people who have one way or another worked to create opportunities for themselves that others have not.  I understand that and accept it's role in capitalism and life.  But I have more admiration and respect for the man who spends his treasure for something and then donates it to a museum for the public good and collective enrichment for it's own sake, not just once the value to him has evolved, if ever.  I think most people probably do. I'm afraid you're stuck with that, just like we're stuck on this side.

Cunts, worthless cocksuckers, fucks... This place still rocks.

[QUOTE]

[b]brians wig wrote: [/b] [QUOTE][b]Pierre wrote:[/b]
Elite suckers i will say bloodsuckers...who F cares give it away free & its F stolen stuff anyway.[/QUOTE]

I think you'll find that if someone has an original acetate of the Reaction demos because he was a band member and then sells his copy in auction and someone buys it: that's NOT stealing.

So. When are YOU going to give something back to the Queen community Pierre?
Taped any concerts yourself that you'd like to share or do you plan on taking for the rest of your life?

Your kind of attitude only ever seems to come from people who take...

It's like being paid an income without actually having gone to work for it and then complaining when it's taken off you.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't you need to ask the other members of the band whether or not the original band member had the right to sell the music in this way? Did the band member have sole ownership of the material? (maybe he did, but since you raise the point perhaps you know for certain?)

As for your welfare analogy, it's competely wrong, but it does reveal that "superior attitude" some of you have, but claim not to.

JSS.. Sorry but if you were a millionaire you would have a proper car ;-)


Anyway.. at the end of the day what are we arguing about? The Reaction stuff was interesting for about 30 seconds... WHEN the Hangman recording becomes public we will be amazed for 5. After that there is nothing left.

Sun City? Just listen to any other gig of the time. I will never understand the obsession for live stuff.

Grateful Fan wrote:
For the enrichment of your own private experiences, you keep some of that from people. From me.

______________________________

I think access to rare Queen music here for downloading is a privilege and not a right.

While we admire those who donate their collection for the public to enjoy, we should not cast illwill to those who do not do it.  Collecting usually stems from a love for the item.  The fact that the collected item went up in value over time is a bonus and is a reflection of the collector's ability to judge the beauty of an item, especially when its creator was relatively not so well-known at that time.

This thread rocks. Really, there was only one thing done wrong here - Asshat Fuller leaked something he was asked not to, and then lied about it to try and look innocent.

That is literally the only transgression, because the recordings do not belong to the collectors any more than they belong to me. I'm speaking morally, here - finders keepers doesn't apply because it's not even your music. It's sad, really sad if you paid money for these rare things and then watched as someone leaked them away for free - I'm sure it really hurts deep inside yo! - but really, it's your fault for buying them in the first place.

The focus really ought to be on who you were dealing with, and how you ever conned yourself into thinking he was trustworthy. I knew he was a rat ages ago. He was nice to me in private (he wanted the excerpt of Face it Alone that was sent to me by the_hero, before the full thing came out). He was SO nice... it warms my heart. As soon as I didn't treat him like he was King Dick, he went into full-on lowercase retard mode and started sending me hatemail.

Next time, don't be so eager to do business with such a two-faced asshole.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
Err.. 9/11? Okay ...The aim of collecting is completion, of course, but to be able to do that you need something to trade and the rarer the thing you have the more you have to trade with. Isn't Sun City rare? I find it very odd that the person uploaded 1/2 a concert for free then completely disappeared. Don't you? I suspect he was made an offer. That's the most likely explanation -- nothing to do with 9/11 conspiracies etc. Bit surprising to hear that from you YV.Honestly, I find it very hard to work up any sympathy for JSS or anyone else hanging onto rare recordings, be that Queen Productions or people here. The stuff recently leaked is nearly 50 years old ffs! How long are people going to hang onto this stuff? Until we're all dead and buried?[/QUOTE]


Strangely, I find it extraordinary to assume that a collector would do that. Collecting Queen material is a hobby and not the mafia. It is fun like collecting football cards or car miniatures. We all have lives outside collecting Queen material and I never met someone who would pay a lot of money for something he could get for free, that simply does not make any sense. If QPL are after the Sun City material as ghostwithasmile says I find it hard to believe that a fan could possibly outbid them.

GratefulFan - I was in Queen groups before, most notably the "Royal Rarities Request Society" on Audiogalaxy, remember that? It was also an invitation group and it was fun. I see many people here post how they do not care anymore and how very uninteresting all this rare stuff is. Some people do care and John invited some of them to join this group. The most important part was sharing material, information and knowlegde and it was all up to John whom he invited and and which rules he set. After accepting his invitation and accepting the rules it would be the most normal thing to follow these rules. Actually, it was not required to own rare material if the invited friend could add expertise, knowledge and information.

Even in the hub we have rules, you need an invitation and approval by the hub owner and I never heard that we hubbies were accused of being elite fans who hold material back and even buy it off the "market" to keep it from the public.

[QUOTE]

[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b] This thread rocks. Really, there was only one thing done wrong here - Asshat Fuller leaked something he was asked not to, and then lied about it to try and look innocent.

That is literally the only transgression, because the recordings do not belong to the collectors any more than they belong to me. I'm speaking morally, here - finders keepers doesn't apply because it's not even your music. It's sad, really sad if you paid money for these rare things and then watched as someone leaked them away for free - I'm sure it really hurts deep inside yo! - but really, it's your fault for buying them in the first place.

The focus really ought to be on who you were dealing with, and how you ever conned yourself into thinking he was trustworthy. I knew he was a rat ages ago. He was nice to me in private (he wanted the excerpt of Face it Alone that was sent to me by the_hero, before the full thing came out). He was SO nice... it warms my heart. As soon as I didn't treat him like he was King Dick, he went into full-on lowercase retard mode and started sending me hatemail.

Next time, don't be so eager to do business with such a two-faced asshole.[/QUOTE]
DF leaked something, lied about it to try to look innocent AND called the person who gave the piece of music to him a c*nt.

How can you tell if a person will turn out to be a two-faced bad guy ?  We have a saying - if you doubt a person don't use him, if you use a person don't doubt him.

"How can you tell if a person will turn out to be a two-faced bad guy ?"

Spend some time dealing with him piecemeal before you go and do anything that might bite you on the arse... like I said, from a couple of trivial communications with him, I could've given the guys an accurate and reliable character reference before they went and gave him their precious recordings.

It's too bad they didn't ask me first! Hahaha.

[QUOTE] [b]Zebonka12 wrote:[/b]
There is literally no actual reason for someone to charge money for these things, so I have limited (read : NO) sympathy for these people who say they've spent thousands of dollars on their collections. Commiserations to you guys ... you got fucked. It happens when you're too loose with your money.[/QUOTE]

Before the net it was one of the easiest and quickest ways to get hard to get Queen material. Trade shows were expensive, but the selection was massive. Without sounding hypocrtical, my current self probably wishes I hadn't been so hasty.... but I was a young kid back then with an unhealthy infatuation with my favourite band. I earned that money and spent it on something I enjoyed so don't know how "i got fucked". I'm surprised someone with over 10000 posts on a Queen fan site doesn't understand why someone would pay for Queen material?!?

I wish you were about though back then to show me how to get the same items so easily for "free", like the way you claim you would have done?

I'm guessing your a financial wizkid the way you've got your head on so straight with money and spending it correctly.