The Passion of Christ

There's no doubt there were violent act from both sides, Jewish & British. A certain group of Jews murdered Count Bernadot and planted bombs at the King David hotel, and certain groups of the British army abused innocent Jews. Those are all extremists, and they do not represent the opinion or perception of the entire Jewish settlement in Israel and the entire British army. Do you know about the Altalena case? That's a fine example of what's the official stand of the Jewish settlement and what isn't.

There are, however, certain British acts that DO represent the British mandat's stand, like Churchill's White Book.

You say we violated several UN resolutions. Guess what? Britain did too (remember Iraq?). If we wouldn't violate some of the UN's resolutions we wouldn't even exist. Would you consider the invasion of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon & Egypt to Israel in 1948 a violation of certain UN resolutions? I would. A few hours after our state has been created we had to face war against 4 countries. What about the Yom Kippur War? Other than the Lebanon War, we didn't start a war with any Arab country.

Could you please clarify who started the 2 Intifadas in 1987 & 2000? We sure didn't. The last thing we want is war with them.

About the Palestinian victims: Israel does not hurt innocent civilians on purpose. It only hunts down terrorists from terror organizations that are active in the Gaza strip. In some cases innocent people are hurt, yes, I don't deny it. As harsh as it may be, I think I prefer 2 terrorists and 2 civilians dead rather than having 40 Israelis dead. I'm sure you would prefer the same if you would have been an Israeli.

The Palestinians actions are not pointed toward soldiers, they are pointed toward everyone, even Israeli-Arabs. That's the difference between us and them - we want terrorists dead, they want everyone dead.

Usually when someone is attacked he is considered the victim. Obviously you believe the weak side is the victim, even if it's the one who started the whole thing.

for me it's always been, I can think for myself, I dont need a church to do that for me. =-)

Thanks to all the religious prodigies who replied to my last post.

Where are you, Catholics??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3226600.stm

One of many many incidents where a large amount of Palestinian civilian injuries and deaths have occured because of Israeli military action. This is the equivalent of the US Army bombing an apartment block in a crowded US city because it believes terrorist SUSPECTS may reside there. In other words, it is coldly calculated murder without trial of not only of SUSPECTS, but also of innocent civilians guilty (according to you) only of going about their daily lives in their own communities. What you probably don't know or don't care is that it is also a war crime, since combatants have a legal obligation to ensure civilian casualties are kept to an absolute minimum. (It goes without saying of course that suicide bombings are also war crimes, but at the moment we're still dealing with your argument that Israeli violence is justifed because it is "legal" whereas Palestinian violence is unjustified because "they are trying to take our land.") Firing missiles into streets crowded with women and children, or into civilian apartment buildings, is a clear violation of international law, as is collective punishment of civilian communities for the actions of individuals from within that community. I'm sure you can justify that in your head at least because, as you say, you would rather innocent Palestinians die than innocent Israelis but that doesn't make it right. In fact, a number of respected Israeli military officers have recently spoken out against terror raids like this, saying it disgraces the otherwise good reputation of the IDF. And it is raids like this that have led, in the last 3 years, to 3-4 times as many Palestinian deaths as Israeli.

Lucy: please direct me to my quote or comments that led you to accuse me of supporting suicide bombers. And then, when you cannot do that, I wonder if you're grown up enough to apologise.

'It is clear to me Britain was fighting for its existence. By the way, I'm sure the soldiers there were in Israel would be more useful in the war, but whatever. You would have lost the war if it wasn't for the US.'

I think you'll find the Russians ability to accept massive losses had a lot more to do with winning the war in Europe than the late entry of the US.

"for me it's always been, I can think for myself, I dont need a church to do that for me. =-)"

A good philosophy William, but it never hurts to learn. You never know what's out there and inspiring for you unless you try it out.

And Guy, I'm sorry I didn't read your posts until now. I got rather caught up in my own posts, which NOBODY HAS REPLIED TO YET.

"That's why the world looks like it does, because everyone only wants to take care of themselves."

Such a fine statement. :) Too true.

(post edited... certain segments were definitely wrong to have been said)

Since you're such an expert on war on terror, why don't you tell me how can we stop those homicide bombers?

It is the Palestinian's authority DUTY to arrest them and prevent them going even near our border. As long as they don't do that Israel has the right to take whatever steps it thinks are right in order to prevent casualties on our side.

I never said I prefer dead innocent Palestinians over dead innocent Jews. I said I prefer 2 terrorists killed (which would kill 30-40 innocent Israelis) and 2 innocent civilians killed rather than having 40 Israelis killed. Did I make my point clear?

"In fact, a number of respected Israeli military officers have recently spoken out against terror raids like this"

Respected in whose eyes, exactly? Israelis have lost any kind of respect for these officers. Maybe you should stop counting on Sky and BBC so much.

"And it is raids like this that have led, in the last 3 years, to 3-4 times as many Palestinian deaths as Israeli."

Do you feel like supporting this claim, giving me actual numbers? Please note we're talking about innocent civilians here, don't put the terrorists and their families into your list.

Again, the BBC has mislead you. The reason that the real missile name was not revealed back then was because of classified material, not because of their claims about injured and killed civilians.

While you say it's the same as bombing a city because it has suspects, you are once again wrong. We don't bomb certain buildings in their territory because we say "Hey, maybe there's someone we need in there, let's just drop a few bombs and see who's hurt". NO. Every strike in the Gaza strip is well calculated and designed to assassinate a certain person\persons who are KNOWN to be present at the building at the time. Those missiles are specifically designed for such operations to cause as little side effects as possible. However, they do happen.

Do you expect us to sit back and wait for our death while they commit war crimes? We do NOT intend to commit war crimes, it's a side effect that happens sometimes (or frequently). Those terrorists surround themselves with little children and innocent people. "Those who send their children to war, should not be suprised when they die".

According to what you say you DO support those bombers, so Matt is right. I think you need a little reminder: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1197051.stm

Notice the "Below are SOME". I don't need to mention there are terror attacks involving shooting rather than bombing, or do I?

You're just making up excuses - as I predicted. You don't deserve a reasoned response as there's nothing to respond to once again. I am glad though to hear your shrill, hysterical accusation that my "statement" (which one?) proves that I support suicide bombers. It underlines once again how partisan you are, how low you will stoop to defend the undefendable, and how far removed you are from any effort at rational discussion or reasoned debate.

Guitar Hero, why are you so interested in what others think? Even if people tell you, you will just insult them because of your narrow-mindedness. You seek people's opinion but you don't even respect it. You are in your own world, and you are acting like some immature child who will throw a fit if you don't get what you want. Get a life, and grow up.

A good philosophy William, but it never hurts to learn. You never know what's out there and inspiring for you unless you try it out.

I have many history books as im a history bluff, quite a few are about church and where it start through to present times, I understand most...I even went to church for a while, some things that are tuaght I cannot accept, and there is no run around in it. So I simply accept not being a member of any.

<< Since you're such an expert on war on terror, why don't you tell me how can we stop those homicide bombers? >> By stopping opression over Palestines, and stop killing innocent women and children when you are supossedely "Hunting For Terrorists". It seems to me like Israel is also guilty of terrorism, just that they describe it with a nicer word called "retaliation". Face it Guy, Israel is as guilty of this war as Palestines. Ariel Sharon is no less of a terrorist than Ariel Arafat.

my school is going to it when it comes were hoping the whole school but it will probally just be the religion class the movie is very close to what really happend at Jesus death and i can not wait to see it my religon teacher showed us a preview in class and i almost cried during that and i have never vried during a movie or during a preview cant wait till it comes out

I will not even refer to your comments Mr.Jingles, which I consider as anti-semitic. Saying Israel is a disgrace to today's world, reminds me of a certain moustached person back in the 30s who said Jews are a disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Krowa003, I am the exact opposite of narrow-minded! For the past few years of my life, I have been reading books written by religious scholars and have learned all about other religions and moreso, the truths about the Christian faith, and where it is going; which is a hell of a lot more than the Catholic church does to educate people.

And it's funny that you didn't reply to that entire post of mine, full of facts about religion that you probably never knew. Afraid of the truth, or would you rather be part of the big group and not think for yourself?

I get angry when people don't post in a topic like this, because religion is something that affects almost everybody. When people keep to themselves and don't open their minds on this subject, how can they learn anything? So you're accusing me of not learning and closing my mind? Whatever. Read my posts again, and start learning and accepting.

Until then, you and your fellow Catholics will be the narrow-minded ones. I'll have to wait a while for a reply, because it's Sunday morning, and you're busy at your mass, being brainwashed that you're unworthy and that you have to be clean of all the sin you committed over the week.

William just made a wonderful post about how he's chosen studying history over religion. I just learned something from him. If I had a closed conservative Christian mind, I would have thought, "William is going to hell because he has chosen not to be saved".

Ahh, the beauty of the human mind, and those who choose to use it.

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